Pastor Disguises Himself

[LaSainte]

When we are moved spiritually to assist someone it is not always the Holy Spirit that is moving us. That is why The Lord has imbedded in us common sense.

A woman here in CA was on her way home from church. She felt moved to pick up a hitchhiker and his two young sons. She was found in a ditch brutally raped and stabbed, she lived long enough to relate what had happened.

I still think WWJD, remembering that I am not to put myself in a possibly dangerous situation, as we are not to put The Lord, our God, to the test.

A woman giving a ride to strangers is one thing, and not advisable. Smiling at a man in church who appears to be homeless is quite another.

 

[KrazyKat]

When we are moved spiritually to assist someone it is not always the Holy Spirit that is moving us. That is why The Lord has imbedded in us common sense.

A woman here in CA was on her way home from church. She felt moved to pick up a hitchhiker and his two young sons. She was found in a ditch brutally raped and stabbed, she lived long enough to relate what had happened.

I still think WWJD, remembering that I am not to put myself in a possibly dangerous situation, as we are not to put The Lord, our God, to the test.

 

[KrazyKat]

Would then it be called a perversion ? Or a deviation from the norm ? Or odd? Gets more difficult all the time.

This was posted on the wrong thread. Please disregard as I cannot remove it. Thank You.

 

[quiet52]

I’ve never been in a megachurch (the place of the OP’s story). But if someone was walking around in a Catholic church, before Mass, greeting people and asking for change, I would be annoyed, and most likely would tell the person, homeless or not, that people were trying to pray to prepare for Mass, and could he please talk with people outside after Mass.

Yes, I help the people who are homeless, in a number of ways. I have even brought them to Mass, and sat next to them during Mass. But there are limits.

So, if the pastor in the story really exists, is he welcoming homeless people to solicit in the megachurch before his services begin? Has he asked his congregation to start up an outreach ministry? Just wondering.

 

[LaSainte]

I’ve never been in a megachurch (the place of the OP’s story). But if someone was walking around in a Catholic church, before Mass, greeting people and asking for change, I would be annoyed, and most likely would tell the person, homeless or not, that people were trying to pray to prepare for Mass, and could he please talk with people outside after Mass.

Yes, I help the people who are homeless, in a number of ways. I have even brought them to Mass, and sat next to them during Mass. But there are limits.

So, if the pastor in the story really exists, is he welcoming homeless people to solicit in the megachurch before his services begin? Has he asked his congregation to start up an outreach ministry? Just wondering.

Megachurches are different. People don’t quietly make their way to their seat to pray. It’s like a cocktail party. People mingling and talking.

 

[Timothysis]

Who said this person was or even appeared to be dangerous?

People tend to have a fear, rational or not, about homeless people being dangerous. Call it a stereotype if you wish but it is simply how things are.

I am living downtown now with my husband and kids and we walk by homeless people every day, and I ALWAYS smile at them.

Well, good for you.

I don’t feel that it’s a dangerous or risky thing to do. Nobody was suggesting that anyone go with him down a dark alley at midnight for a chat, just maybe treat him like any other human being.

Until the day comes when something happens, especially with your children present…then you may find yourself with a different attitude. I have found that it is when you do make eye contact with them that they tend to see you as a soft sell and then try to start hitting you up.

 

[cheezey]

No one is saying it is a good idea or necessary to pick up hitch hikers or allow strangers into your home. What harm comes from sitting next to someone at Mass? Very few people are going to violently erupt when sitting in a church service.

True. I am still that the priest escorted the violent one out a few weeks back.He had been disruptive for a few weeks prior, always arriving wearing a nice suit, though no one knew him; then he became violent one week and so was physically removed. By the priest.
Never seen that before; never had the priest done that before. He felt badly, yet knew it had to be done. This is indeed a rarity, I am sure.

 

[SwizzleStick]

True. I am still that the priest escorted the violent one out a few weeks back.He had been disruptive for a few weeks prior, always arriving wearing a nice suit, though no one knew him; then he became violent one week and so was physically removed. By the priest.
Never seen that before; never had the priest done that before. He felt badly, yet knew it had to be done. This is indeed a rarity, I am sure.

We too had a woman wander in who started talking and yelling during Mass. Father continued with Mass while the ushers managed to quiet her and get her to go outside to stop the disruption during Mass. I think they ended up calling the police because they didn’t know what else to do. When someone is unbalanced, what does one do?

 

[LaSainte]

People tend to have a fear, rational or not, about homeless people being dangerous. Call it a stereotype if you wish but it is simply how things are.

Well, good for you.

Until the day comes when something happens, especially with your children present…then you may find yourself with a different attitude. I have found that it is when you do make eye contact with them that they tend to see you as a soft sell and then try to start hitting you up.

Nice attitude. I think I read “don’t make eye contact with the homeless or they might want something from you” in the Bible somewhere. This attitude is why they are probably the loneliest and most alienated people in the world.

 

[Timothysis]

Nice attitude. I think I read “don’t make eye contact with the homeless or they might want something from you” in the Bible somewhere. This attitude is why they are probably the loneliest and most alienated people in the world.

Most homeless are lonely and alienated because they are either alcoholics, drug addicts or mentally ill. Giving money to people on the street to finance their substance abuse is not Christian charity. How many times have we heard the stories of people asking for money but turning down a meal? If they need help, they know where to go. Ed Smart made a habit of bringing homeless people to his home (his wife thought the homeless were angels in disguise) and was paid back with the abduction and multiple rape of his poor daughter Elizabeth at the age of 14. But at least he smiled at them.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Most homeless are lonely and alienated because they are either alcoholics, drug addicts or mentally ill. Giving money to people on the street to finance their substance abuse is not Christian charity. How many times have we heard the stories of people asking for money but turning down a meal? If they need help, they know where to go. Ed Smart made a habit of bringing homeless people to his home (his wife thought the homeless were angels in disguise) and was paid back with the abduction and multiple rape of his poor daughter Elizabeth at the age of 14. But at least he smiled at them.

I am always upset when I see someone with a sign asking for money on a street corner. It really hurts me to see a person begging, a man with the same human dignity and value as each one of us, reduced to begging in the street. It is just wrong. Giving them a bit of cash always seemed way inadequate because it was. Also, I would later see them indulging in habits that were not helping them at all and I would feel duped to know that my money “helped” them in a negative way.

In recent years, I have done better about not giving in and giving these people money after being advised to just refer them to the local St. Vincent de Paul Society where they can truly get the help and support that they need.

 

[7armyrugrats]

The reason my family was homeless was do to a job promise that didn’t pan out. We moved across the country (from the east coast to the west coast) with a horse trainer. My husband had been working for him for a few years at that point so we trusted this man. After we got to this new state, the trainer let us know that he was hurting for money and was “hopeful that he would get back on his feet after the move, but sadly it’s not happening.” well, lucky for him, he had rich friends to run off to for help while my husband, son and I were left alone in a state far from family and knowing no one. We had no car, no money, no resources whatsoever. After a few weeks my husband told me to take our son and go to a shelter. He remained on the streets. The shelter was for women and children only. It wasn’t nearly as scary as I thought it would be. We were safe, fed, clothed and generally well cared for. The other families at the shelter were good people. Tgere were no alcoholics, drug addicts, violence–none of that. Most were victims of domestic violence, many were single moms who had no education so jobs were hard to find and still not enough to cover everything, and others were grandmothers who were struggling to raise grandkids. The men my husband met on the streets, yes, quite a few were mentally ill or addicted. They were also very kind to my husband and helped encourage him to not give up and “fall like we have.” many became addicted after they gave up hope, not homeless because of their addictions. Yes, many do lose everything because of addictions as well. Many stay homeless because it is nearly impossible to get a job if you don’t have an address. You can’t apply for government services. Most shelters are overflowing and have a time limit of 30-90 days so time is extremely limited to get back on your feet. It is a nasty cycle and it isn’t difficult to fall into it. The way we finally got out was that I told my family how things were. It took months for me to do that. Part was pride, bigger part embarrassment. But they bought plane tickets for us to come home, moved us in with them, and never judged us.

I find it so sad that on a Catholic website I repeatedly find so many judgmental people. I’m not exculsively speaking of posts about the homeless. I see it on here all the time about many things. I have no problem with differences of opinion, but for people to just cast off an entire segment of society (homeless, gays, anyone different than yourself, etc), should have no place on a website that is supposed to promote Catholicism.

 

[SwizzleStick]

…I find it so sad that on a Catholic website I repeatedly find so many judgmental people. I’m not exculsively speaking of posts about the homeless. I see it on here all the time about many things. I have no problem with differences of opinion, but for people to just cast off an entire segment of society (homeless, gays, anyone different than yourself, etc), should have no place on a website that is supposed to promote Catholicism.

Catholics hopefully refer the homeless to St. Vincent de Paul Society so they can get the help and support they need there, and they hopefully also support St. Vincent de Paul with donations, both monetary and other, as they are able.

 

[Timothysis]

I find it so sad that on a Catholic website I repeatedly find so many judgmental people…for people to just cast off an entire segment of society (homeless, gays, anyone different than yourself, etc), should have no place on a website that is supposed to promote Catholicism.

No one is being judgmental nor casting off entire segments of society. The fact of the matter is that there is such a thing as the deserving and the undeserving poor. What is most helpful is when limited resources are applied to the deserving poor who need a hand up, not a hand out. At the Bishop Ott shelter here in Baton Rouge, they have to kick everyone out in the morning or they will stay there all day waiting for the next handout. That is reality. Don’t confuse being judgmental with being prudent.

And no one casts off gay people here but they do acknowledge that living a gay lifestyle is contrary to the faith and the traditional teachings of the Church. That *does *have a place on a Catholic website.

 

[7armyrugrats]

Look, when people do not want you to visit their church and attend Mass due to the fact that you are not pleasing to them, that is being cast aside. St. Vincent de Paul could do nothing for my family that wasn’t already being done. We were NOT looking for a hand out. We were looking for God. We wanted to attend Mass as a family and were not welcomed AT ALL. This wasn’t one Catholic Church, this was a total of 5 Catholic Churches over a period of 3 months. The Greek Orthodox church welcomed us, made us feel appreciated. When we first went to the Orthodox Church, I thought it was a Catholic church. Where we were from, the only churches that had saint in their name were Catholic. When I found that the priest was married, I didn’t KNOW what to think, but his wife was so friendly and helpful. They were the ones who took us to the Catholic church (on the other side of the city) for Mass.

I do understand closing shelters during the day. My point is that there are maximum numbers of days that can be stayed at most shelters. That makes it impossible to get on your feet to a point that you don’t need handouts. You have to have an address in order to apply for services. Employers won’t hire you off the street either. The best you can hope for is day labor and that isn’t always a safe option either and it’s only short term.

I’m not saying people should open their homes up and invite the homeless in. I’m not saying hand out money left and right. I am saying that if they come to Mass, what is so hard about welcoming them? Why can they not be welcomed? Why is it necessary to move them to a different place in the church or get up and switch seats to be away from them? That is part of why so many people lose hope.

And yes, I’ve seen many times on here when people are uncharitable on many different topics. Not as bad as most other sites, but yes it happens. Of course it’s not all posters, and yes some go to far the opposite direction and think anything goes. There is a middle road where reason lies.

 

[andrewstx]

Catholics hopefully refer the homeless to St. Vincent de Paul Society so they can get the help and support they need there, and they hopefully also support St. Vincent de Paul with donations, both monetary and other, as they are able.

I was raised in Midland Tx, home of two Bush Presidents and basically all churches regardless of what communion they were in had large sign posted that said in effect “go away, don’t bother us we refer all who need help to the Salvation Army” and had the address of the Sallyann on the sign.

But OTOH I had a step brother who was mentally ill (Shizophrenia and Pyromaniac) who also carried a pistol. He was ejected from HUD apartments when two of them burned.

I moved and did not give him my new address from fear. He would smoke stinkyrettes on my balcony and throw the still burning ends into a pile of pine needles.

Of course he ended up dieing in a fire.

 

[Joe_5859]

I think 7armyrugrats brings up some good points that really encourages us not to forget the human face of those who are homeless. We don’t want to write off an entire segment of the population.

I struggle with this. I understand the desire to want to delegate it to others to “deal with” the poor. But on the other hand we don’t want to dehumanize the people that are right in front of us and simply pass the buck.

I’m usually not a cynical person, but this is an area where it’s hard for me not to be cynical. I’ve heard plenty of stories from people who work full time for Catholic charitable organizations. I’ve had people approach me on the street with sob stories about how their pregnant wife has gone into labor and she’s in the car just over there around the corner and if I could just give them $5 for gas money because they are all out, then I would be the best person in the world (though now that I’ve actually got the wallet out, $20 would be even better). I bought it the first two times I heard it. After that, the stories started to sound suspiciously similar.

I certainly don’t want to fail in my Christian obligation towards performing the corporal works of mercy. But neither do I enjoy being deceived and taken advantage of. Trying to reconcile the two can prove difficult. At least for me.

 

[andrewstx]

I think 7armyrugrats brings up some good points that really encourages us not to forget the human face of those who are homeless. We don’t want to write off an entire segment of the population.

I struggle with this. I understand the desire to want to delegate it to others to “deal with” the poor. But on the other hand we don’t want to dehumanize the people that are right in front of us and simply pass the buck.

I’m usually not a cynical person, but this is an area where it’s hard for me not to be cynical. I’ve heard plenty of stories from people who work full time for Catholic charitable organizations. I’ve had people approach me on the street with sob stories about how their pregnant wife has gone into labor and she’s in the car just over there around the corner and if I could just give them $5 for gas money because they are all out, then I would be the best person in the world (though now that I’ve actually got the wallet out, $20 would be even better). I bought it the first two times I heard it. After that, the stories started to sound suspiciously similar.

I certainly don’t want to fail in my Christian obligation towards performing the corporal works of mercy. But neither do I enjoy being deceived and taken advantage of. Trying to reconcile the two can prove difficult. At least for me.

Never give them cash, they will spend it to fuel their addictions.
I offer to buy them a meal and they usually turn that down.

 

[cheezey]

Never give them cash, they will spend it to fuel their addictions.
I offer to buy them a meal and they usually turn that down.

A local community cafe (in a very tough neighborhood) has instituted a marvelous program
Buy 2 coffees today.

One for you, one for another who cannot buy his or her own.
Help make them feel part of the cafe community.
They keep track of how many are sold, and then hand them out as needed.

I remember when I had no money whatsoever. I wanted a cup so badly.
Not for the coffee so much as the company of others doing the same. For a feeling of belonging, even if in just a coffee house for 15 minutes. You have no idea what that can do for a lost soul.

 

[LaSainte]

Most homeless are lonely and alienated because they are either alcoholics, drug addicts or mentally ill. Giving money to people on the street to finance their substance abuse is not Christian charity. How many times have we heard the stories of people asking for money but turning down a meal? If they need help, they know where to go. Ed Smart made a habit of bringing homeless people to his home (his wife thought the homeless were angels in disguise) and was paid back with the abduction and multiple rape of his poor daughter Elizabeth at the age of 14. But at least he smiled at them.

Giving money to someone and smiling at a person are two totally different things, first of all. Secondly, God is not going to judge ME based on what these peoe do with the $2 I give them on the street. He is going to judge me based upon how I treated them. If a man goes out and buys a beer with the money I give him, well, that is between him and God. But my job is to show a little bit of Christian compassion. A smile, “God bless”, and yes, even the occasional spare change is seriously the least A person can do to show some of these people that we don’t think they aren’t human garbage on their way into Starbucks for a $3 latte. A good 10% of the homeless I interact with regularly have no legs or are in a wheelchair. I have ZERO business judging these people or what they do with the money I may give them to make their existence a little more tolerable. Maybe if I had no family to care for me and no legs to walk on, I would drink too. Heck, I drink when I’m stressed sometimes anyway and my problems arent NEARLY that bad, thank God. Sometimes the best thing we can do in the moment is show them that we care and that God cares, just for a second, and hope it makes an impact.