Pastor John Hagee tells God: Punish America for same-sex marriage or ‘apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah’

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That Paul was a firebrand isn’t in dispute.

But you seem to reject half the New Testament with your stance. If that’s the case, I would suggest you impoverish yourself.

You are also rejecting the fact that Jesus himself called Paul to be an Apostle on the road to Damascus. He was a REAL Apostle.

What’s odd is I find myself a bit stunned to be defending St. Paul. For a long time I didn’t like him. His personality is definitely abrasive at times. But does that make his teachings wrong? No. And some of what you are referring to is the disagreement that led to the First Council of Jerusalem. The Church needs people like St. Paul at the councils in order to hash out formal Church teaching and to define heresy. And St. Peter, originally in disagreement with St. Paul on some issues, later decided St. Paul was right.
 
Peccavi said:
So says Paul Peter is silent on the subject.
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Silence doesn’t mean disagreement.

Additionally, the historical information on the First Council of Jerusalem was recorded by St. Luke in the Book of the Acts of the Apostles, not St. Paul.

Everything in our Bible is found to be Canonical by the Church. The Church founded by Christ and built on St. Peter.

A good Catholic study Bible might be helpful in understanding any areas where you feel there is conflict.
 
xNoOnex said:
Maybe, John Hagee, should read his own Bible before he opens his mouth. I’ll quote the KJV of the Bible, since he’s like a “KJV Only”.

Sodom’s sin wasn’t homosexuality. It was a lack of charity.
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Yeah, Right:rolleyes:
 
According to several passages in KJV, both new and old testament, Sodom and Gomorrah were exceedingly wicked, sinful, and immoral people that God punished for their wickedness. Second, God says that same gender sex is an abomination to God, and God also said that marriage was between a man and a woman. The wickedness and sinful nature is one the reason God destroyed man with a flood the first time (there was also a gene pool problem) and Jesus says that as it was in the days of Noah so shall it be the latter days. It is undeniable that morality, wickedness, and sinfulness abounds everywhere and growing at exponential rate.

Pastor Hagee does not act like God at as some have said here. John Hagee is a pastor of a non-denominational church who just delivers what God says in the Bible concerning these issues. You can believe what you want but God and His word is unchangeable and means what He says and says what He means.

I just happen to live in San Antonio and have been going to Hagee’s church which has over 20,000 active members for the past year. Hagee’s teachings come straight from the Bible and I find that his preaching’s (as well as some others) about what God says is identical to what I discovered to be Biblical truth some 20 years ago. you can catch his teachings on GET-TV as he has an audience to over a million people worldwide who follow him.

Hagee also started some 50 years ago “CUFL” Christians United for Israel" and organization where delegates are now going to every senator and representative to change the recent Supreme Court rulings through legislative change. Because of the Abrahamic covenant to Israel, the promises of God to bless those who bless Israel and the role of Israel in Biblical prophecy, Hagee is very strong supporter of Israel having raised over 70 million in the past 50 years.
 
Quotes By John Hagee :
one of the best known promoters of the ‘Two Covenant’ Doctrine’

(“San Antonio fundamentalist battles anti-Semitism,” Houston Chronicle, April 30, 1988, sec. 6, pg. 1. PFO Article, “The Other Gospel Of John Hagee”)

Quote:
“I believe that every Jewish person who lives in the light of the Torah, which is the word of God, has a relationship with God and will come to redemption.”

Quote:
“I’m not trying to convert the Jewish people to the Christian faith.”

Quote:
In fact, trying to convert Jews is a waste of time. ‘The Jewish person who has his roots in Judaism is not going to convert to Christianity. There is no form of Christian evangelism that has failed so miserably as evangelizing the Jewish people. They have a faith structure. Everyone else, whether Buddhist or Baha’i, needs to believe in Jesus, he says. But not Jews. Jews already have a covenant with God that has never been replaced by Christianity."

Quote:
“The Jewish people have a relationship to God through the law of God as given through Moses. I believe that every Gentile person can only come to God through the cross of Christ. I believe that every Jewish person who lives in the light of the Torah, which is the word of God, has a relationship with God and will come to redemption. “The law of Moses is sufficient enough to bring a person into the knowledge of God until God gives him a greater revelation. And God has not.

Quote:
“The Jews were not rejecting Jesus as Messiah, it was Jesus who was refusing to be the Messiah to the Jews!”

Quote:
“There are Jewish people who have relationship with God right now according to the election of grace. (Romans 11:5) … The Jewish people are judicially blinded to the identity of Messiah… Question: If God blinded the Jewish people to the identity of Jesus as Messiah, how could He send them to hell for not seeing what he had forbidden them to see? … Inasmuch as God has blinded them to the identity of Messiah, targeting the Jewish people for mass evangelism is fruitless.”

(John Hagee letter (on Cornerstone Church letterhead) to Erwin M. de Castro of the Christian Research Institute, October 18, 1994, pg. 5, copy on file. Christian Research Institute Article on John Hagee)

His belief in the ‘prosperity gospel’ is another heresy.
Very dangerous teacher.
 
Doormouse said:
I don’t see anybody ordering God about!!!
I see a person making America aware of what will happen if it doesn’t change its ways.������
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Pastor John Hagee TELLS God. He does not ask, he TELLS.
 
Hagee lost my respect back when I was still a Protestant. He was preaching a series on Islam, in the process of the last message, he played some excerpts of virulent anti-Western Muslim sermons that he claimed had been captured on hidden cameras. This was a lie; the clips had the usual logos in the lower right or left corners showing that the clips had been videotaped from normal Arabic-language television channels.
 
I studied the Bible since I was a young man in a Jesuit School, at university and since. I am well aware of Canonical teaching which is why I am relapsed. As you see I my views on Paul are not orthodox. I see Paul as subverting the thrust of Jesus teachings with philosophical and moral add-ons. I call myself relapsed because I thought Pope Francis could return the Church to its Jewish theological foundations. Sadly that mountain appears to high for any Pope to climb. So here I am relapsed and looking towards the Nazarenes for comfort.
 
Peccavi said:
I studied the Bible since I was a young man in a Jesuit School, at university and since. I am well aware of Canonical teaching which is why I am relapsed. As you see I my views on Paul are not orthodox. I see Paul as subverting the thrust of Jesus teachings with philosophical and moral add-ons. I call myself relapsed because I thought Pope Francis could return the Church to its Jewish theological foundations. Sadly that mountain appears to high for any Pope to climb. So here I am relapsed and looking towards the Nazarenes for comfort.
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Since to pursue this would be off topic, I invite you Here to tell me more of your views
Paul was at odds with the real Apostles
 
JustaServant said:
Quotes By John Hagee :
one of the best known promoters of the ‘Two Covenant’ Doctrine’

(“San Antonio fundamentalist battles anti-Semitism,” Houston Chronicle, April 30, 1988, sec. 6, pg. 1. PFO Article, “The Other Gospel Of John Hagee”)

Quote:
“I believe that every Jewish person who lives in the light of the Torah, which is the word of God, has a relationship with God and will come to redemption.”

Quote:
“I’m not trying to convert the Jewish people to the Christian faith.”

Quote:
In fact, trying to convert Jews is a waste of time. ‘The Jewish person who has his roots in Judaism is not going to convert to Christianity. There is no form of Christian evangelism that has failed so miserably as evangelizing the Jewish people. They have a faith structure. Everyone else, whether Buddhist or Baha’i, needs to believe in Jesus, he says. But not Jews. Jews already have a covenant with God that has never been replaced by Christianity."

Quote:
“The Jewish people have a relationship to God through the law of God as given through Moses. I believe that every Gentile person can only come to God through the cross of Christ. I believe that every Jewish person who lives in the light of the Torah, which is the word of God, has a relationship with God and will come to redemption. “The law of Moses is sufficient enough to bring a person into the knowledge of God until God gives him a greater revelation. And God has not.

Quote:
“The Jews were not rejecting Jesus as Messiah, it was Jesus who was refusing to be the Messiah to the Jews!”

Quote:
“There are Jewish people who have relationship with God right now according to the election of grace. (Romans 11:5) … The Jewish people are judicially blinded to the identity of Messiah… Question: If God blinded the Jewish people to the identity of Jesus as Messiah, how could He send them to hell for not seeing what he had forbidden them to see? … Inasmuch as God has blinded them to the identity of Messiah, targeting the Jewish people for mass evangelism is fruitless.”

(John Hagee letter (on Cornerstone Church letterhead) to Erwin M. de Castro of the Christian Research Institute, October 18, 1994, pg. 5, copy on file. Christian Research Institute Article on John Hagee)

His belief in the ‘prosperity gospel’ is another heresy.
Very dangerous teacher.
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On the past year I have attended cornerstone church, Pastor Hagee every service I have ever attended or seen on TV has been in accordance with what God has written in the Bible. It appears you have gone to some website that didn’t like Hagee’s books and copied what was on that site. It is obvious you have not heard one service that he has given and that your response is based upon you doing a google search finding a critic of his who has pulled quotes out of his book probably out of context as I have not read his book.

I have heard many of his services over the past year, and others that interest me on video and I will say that I have not heard one word out of him that was non biblical. Of course, many do not share his views as they have their own interceptions of the biblical that does not conform to what the biblical states. Also, my beliefs I go back 20 years and my beliefs conform to the teachings of church pastors Chuck Smith, Skip Heitzig and Franklin Graham, as they pastors, who, in my opinion speak the truth of what the Bible says.

I do not speak for Hagee, and he is more than capable of defending himself, but I will address your quotes from the google page you copied and tell you what the Bible says and what evangelical pastors believe including Hagee.
  1. Jews and Gentiles area totally different and each has a different destiny to fulfill. In Genesis there is an Abrahamic convenant that exists between God and the Jewish people. That convenant has never been terminated and that covenant is still in place… See the book of Romans chapters 9, 10, and 11 and Paul hammers home that God is not yet done with the Jewish people. How do Jewish people come to salvation? How did Abraham? By faith in God just like the Gentiles come to salvation by faith through Jesus Christ. The NT bible is very clear on the differences between Jew and Gentile. The Bible (Matt) state that the Jews did not reject Jesus, they simply did not recognize Him. The Bible says very clearly that God will start dealing with the Jewish nation and I believe very soon. (many Biblical verses)…
My response is continued in next response due to space limitations …
 
JustaServant said:
Quotes By John Hagee :
one of the best known promoters of the ‘Two Covenant’ Doctrine’
(“San Antonio fundamentalist battles anti-Semitism,” Houston Chronicle, April 30, 1988, sec. 6, pg. 1. PFO Article, “The Other Gospel Of John Hagee”)

His belief in the ‘prosperity gospel’ is another heresy.
Very dangerous teacher.
Click to expand...
  1. The Jewish people are currently blinded as to who Jesus is (Luke, Matt). This blindness occurred when Jesus rode the donkey declaring that He was the Messiah. Jesus Himself says the Jewish people will be blinded… And why? Because they did not recognize His day of visitation. Jesus expected the Jewish people to know the exact day He was to show up – Matt, Luke, Daniel. Second, how long will the blindness last? forever? No! Paul tells us in the book of Romans, the blindness will be removed when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. Then God will start dealing with the Jewish people again.
  2. Jesus did reject the Jews and was very sad because he wept over Jerusalem and lamented how unwilling they were to accept Him (Luke or Matt). The Jews were looking for a Messiah then and now, but the Messiah they were looking for was one who would come as a King and ruler with riches and power to free them from the yoke of Rome. Had Jesus come as a King and powerful ruler to sit on David’s throne they would have accepted Him.
  3. Jesus rejected the religious leaders and system of the Jews over and over again --/ pharasies, seduccess, the Sanhedrin, the money changes, basically the entire religious system that had evolved in Judaism because the Jewish people tried to keep the letter of the law rather than the spirituality of the law (see Romans). Jesus was in fact the most anti-religious person of His time. Too many passages to even reference but when riding the donkey down He rebuked the Jewish leaders
  4. The Jewish people over the years of the Old Testament were promised a messiah who would be a mighty King and ruler. In some passages the Messiah is seen as one who is poor and suffering, and in passages as one that is powerful and is a ruler. They never got that the passages were describing the same person.
  5. According to the Bible, Jesus will not come back until the Jewish nation figures out who Jesus is accepts Him, and asks Him to return. Three days later Jesus returns and His garments will be dipped in blood (blood of his enemies).
  6. You ever wonder why every century some evil guy tried to wipe out the Jews? If there is no Jewish nation, then God’s plan fails. You should be happy Christ came and provided salvation through Jesus Christ. In God’s plan, Jesus came as a Savior and Redeemer so all mankind can share in the blessings of heaven. All you have to do is accept that free gift. God’s plan were for His people, the Jews, to not recognize who He was so that all many share in God’s plan for redemption. The next time Jesus comes he will come as a mighty and powerful ruler to sit on the throne of David. He will come with His robe dipped in blood as he wipes out those against Him and the Jewish people. In the final war two thirds of the Jews will die (Zech).
  7. I have no idea about your comment about “prosperity”. I do know that Hagee teaches about spiritual authority in all matters such as marriage, business, and finances, that we have really belongs to God and that we should be cheerful givers and in return for allowing God to have spiritual authority over you, a person will have abundance, peace and joy in their life. You have to ask God to fulfill your needs, but God will only answer as He seems fit and to receive you must be right with God. In Genesis, Abel’s gift was accepted, Cain’s was not accepted. Why? Hagee does teach tithing which is Biblical, but I have never heard Hagee mention an amount (the OT says 10%), nor does his church coerce people to give. In other non-denominational Church’s " boxes have attended never even had a “collection” as they has "Agape boxes for your tithes and offerings. Bible says you should be a cheerful and to give according to your heart. I have never seen Hagee say nor the Bible say that if you give you are guaranteed to have financial success. I have been to Catholic churches where they can have up to 3 collections, and there is no accountability. Also honest churches have a group that oversees and publishes financial reports of monies collected and how that money is spent, and includes setting the pastor’s by a board of directors not the pastor. The salary is set depending upon the size of the church.
  8. Pastor Hagee is one the top ten evangelical pastors of our generation. Every time I have heard the guy speak including the CUFL he is a straight shooter that calls it like it is and 100% biblically based. You say ANOTHER Heresy??? Perhaps you should read the Bible more diligently and find out what it really says as well as examine the many doctrines of denomination churches to see how many doctrines they have that have no biblical basis whatsoever. In Acts 17:11, Paul says “These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” God bluntly tells you not to believe what (fin any name), and search the scriptures to check if what you are told is true. God is going to send a strong delusion to all mankind to believe “the lie”, and only those who know their Bible will be able to know the truth (2 Thess).
 
DaveBj said:
Hagee lost my respect back when I was still a Protestant. He was preaching a series on Islam, in the process of the last message, he played some excerpts of virulent anti-Western Muslim sermons that he claimed had been captured on hidden cameras. This was a lie; the clips had the usual logos in the lower right or left corners showing that the clips had been videotaped from normal Arabic-language television channels.
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Whenever I see Hagee, I wonder what he’s currently selling. For the longest time, his sermons were little more than infomercials for his poor-man’s-Hal-Lindsey books and extended shills for his goofy tribulation charts.
 
I am thoroughly amused at the fellow that decided that his pastor is “Biblical” because he agrees with him. Does that mean George Bush is also “Biblical”, along with Reagan, and everyone else you agree with?

As to the Israelist Zionism… Biblical?.. :rolleyes:
 
Peccavi said:
Paul was at odds with the real apostles. Galatians Chapters 1 & 2 are bold examples of Paul’s (hidden) anti-Torah view that was in conflict with the teachings of Jesus and the apostles. Paul pooh-poohed the significance of the real apostles, but…(just in case the Galatians cared) he assured them his doctrine had the real apostles’ support.
Paul came to words with Peter once Peter found out what Paul was teaching, Galatians 2:11. Paul mocked James, Peter (Cephas), and John. He scolded Barnabas and rebuked Peter, Galatians 2:9, 11-14. In true contradictory style, he portrayed Peter as a hypocrite to his Galatian audience, and then boasted of himself, displaying a worse behavior to the Corinthians, saying, “I become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some”, I Corinthians 9:19-22. Note that Paul declares he is the one who gains the more, and that he is the one who is saving mankind not the man Jesus gave his church to, Peter…
Paul was under fire at the council in Jerusalem (he kept silent his anti-Torah viewpoint). James decreed that the Gentiles must abstain from four points of the law. This is mentioned twice in the same chapter, Acts 15:20, 29. Paul then wrote to the Galatian church and told them that they (the apostles) desired “only they would that we should remember the poor”, Galatians 2:10. This is not what James said, which is confirmed by Acts 15:20, 29. Judge Paul for yourself, but for me I prefer the words of the Apostle who heard Jesus in the flesh and to whom he gave the future of his Church. " You are Peter (Cephas)," he said, “on this rock I will build my Church.”
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This is a cut and paste job from one of the many websites run by Sherry Shriner.

Sherry Shriner is a self-proclaimed prophet and descendent of King David, dedicated to proving, among other things, the Biblical basis for imminent alien abductions and that Hitler was some kind of corrupt Jew who implemented the holocaust in order to establish the modern state of Israel to dominate the true Jews.

-Tim-
 
rnmvrck said:
  1. Pastor Hagee is one the top ten evangelical pastors of our generation. Every time I have heard the guy speak including the CUFL he is a straight shooter that calls it like it is and 100% biblically based. You say ANOTHER Heresy??? Perhaps you should read the Bible more diligently and find out what it really says as well as examine the many doctrines of denomination churches to see how many doctrines they have that have no biblical basis whatsoever. In Acts 17:11, Paul says “These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” God bluntly tells you not to believe what (fin any name), and search the scriptures to check if what you are told is true. God is going to send a strong delusion to all mankind to believe “the lie”, and only those who know their Bible will be able to know the truth (2 Thess).
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Hi Rnmvrck, just a couple of questions for clarification.
What specific doctrines of denomination churches have that have no biblical basis whatsoever?
What do you believe the “strong delusion” in the last days will be?
 
Peccavi said:
Paul was at odds with the real apostles. Galatians Chapters 1 & 2 are bold examples of Paul’s (hidden) anti-Torah view that was in conflict with the teachings of Jesus and the apostles. Paul pooh-poohed the significance of the real apostles, but…(just in case the Galatians cared) he assured them his doctrine had the real apostles’ support.
Paul came to words with Peter once Peter found out what Paul was teaching, Galatians 2:11. Paul mocked James, Peter (Cephas), and John. He scolded Barnabas and rebuked Peter, Galatians 2:9, 11-14. In true contradictory style, he portrayed Peter as a hypocrite to his Galatian audience, and then boasted of himself, displaying a worse behavior to the Corinthians, saying, “I become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some”, I Corinthians 9:19-22. Note that Paul declares he is the one who gains the more, and that he is the one who is saving mankind not the man Jesus gave his church to, Peter…
Paul was under fire at the council in Jerusalem (he kept silent his anti-Torah viewpoint). James decreed that the Gentiles must abstain from four points of the law. This is mentioned twice in the same chapter, Acts 15:20, 29. Paul then wrote to the Galatian church and told them that they (the apostles) desired “only they would that we should remember the poor”, Galatians 2:10. This is not what James said, which is confirmed by Acts 15:20, 29. Judge Paul for yourself, but for me I prefer the words of the Apostle who heard Jesus in the flesh and to whom he gave the future of his Church. " You are Peter (Cephas)," he said, “on this rock I will build my Church.”
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Cut 'n pasting’s not allowed dude…or dudette.
 
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