Pastor John Hagee tells God: Punish America for same-sex marriage or ‘apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah’

[JustaServant]

It’s not??? Since when, can you point me to the sticky?

Well…maybe I should qualify that.
You’re not allowed to cut and paste something without citing the source and implying they are your own words.
Thanks for reminding me.

 

[EasterJoy]

*Then the LORD said, “You are concerned over the plant which cost you no labor and which you did not raise; it came up in one night and in one night it perished. And should I not be concerned over Nineveh, the great city, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand persons who cannot distinguish their right hand from their left, not to mention the many cattle?” * Jonah 4:10-11

Our country has many people who do wrong but who do it meaning well. We are famous in the world for our self-indulgence and the ingenuity of our avarice, there is no denying that, but we are also famous for our generosity towards total strangers who are suffering in foreign places. We are perhaps more like Nineveh than Sodom, then. It is not that we have no need to repent, but there is reason to hope that when the truth touches the heart of this country, the country will indeed be moved. Pray for that, not for the country’s destruction.

 

[xNoOnex]

I wondered when someone would bring this up. Usually it is brought up in promotion of homosexuality.
Don’t stop! The next verse states

To state that it was a lack of charity is to minimize what their sin actually was. Charity was only a part of what they were guilty.

Isn’t all sin an abomination in God’s eyes? A lot of people focus on the attempted rape of the angels, forgetting that its more the straw that broke the camels back and the fact that rape itself is a crime of control as much (if not more) than sex.

So if homosexuality was the sin of Sodom, why does their lack lack of charity get more focus than the fact they might have been homosexuals?

I’m not saying homosexuality wasn’t a common occurrence in Sodom and part of the reason why God judged them, but the focus on homosexuality rather that all the the what the Bible verse itself focuses feels wrong.

 

[adrift]

Isn’t all sin an abomination in God’s eyes? A lot of people focus on the attempted rape of the angels, forgetting that its more the straw that broke the camels back and the fact that rape itself is a crime of control as much (if not more) than sex.

So if homosexuality was the sin of Sodom, why does their lack lack of charity get more focus than the fact they might have been homosexuals?

I’m not saying homosexuality wasn’t a common occurrence in Sodom and part of the reason why God judged them, but the focus on homosexuality rather that all the the what the Bible verse itself focuses feels wrong.

By the time the angels came, God had already decided to punish them. What they attempted was not the cause but more of the same that they were being condemned for. It is telling to me where we got the word sodomite. Traditionally this was the sin Sodom was known. As for all sin being an abomination, is besides the point. The claim is made that it had nothing to do with homosexuality but the lack of charity. Reading the scripture in context does not support such a conclusion. That it was just homosexuality is not supported either. In the scripture quoted, it is about how they neglected the poor followed by committing abominations which indicated that the abomination is not the neglect it is something else. Granted he does not specifically name the abomination. I do believe that if we could visit the city we wouldn’t find it much different than we find today in the world and that is scary. I don’t think we can say that it wasn’t homosexuality but it can’t be said that was the main or only reason for their destruction either.
I don’t see charity as being the focus. The focus by Ezekiel is all the deeds that have been done not a particular one.

 

[adrift]

Well…maybe I should qualify that.
You’re not allowed to cut and paste something without citing the source and implying they are your own words.
Thanks for reminding me.

People should cite but I have seen many who do not. Most the time through ignorance.

 

[Pulvis]

Okay, you love John Hagee…we got that.
Here’s a more important question.
Where does John Hagee get his authority to interpret a Book that the Catholic Church produced?

While I understand your meaning, The Catholic Church did not technically “produce” the Bible. Several councils determined what books deserved to be in the Bible, And St. Jerome transcribed the scriptures into Latin for the first official Canon of scriptures I believe. The Bible was produced by men inspired by God through the Holy Spirit.

 

[Doormouse]

These councils,and men were Catholic I think. Who else could have done it?

 

[TimothyH]

People should cite but I have seen many who do not. Most the time through ignorance.

The quote is from justgivemethetruth.com/problem.htm

The website is run by someone who makes her money by writing books on the Biblical basis for alien invasions and teaches that Hitler was an apostate Jew.

 

[rnmvrck]

Okay, you love John Hagee…we got that.
Here’s a more important question.
Where does John Hagee get his authority to interpret a Book that the Catholic Church produced?

You mean the Bible? The bible is not a catholic book. The bible is 66 books penned by 40 authors over thousands of years. The OT was written comes from the Jewish people. The NT was penned by the followers of Jesus contemporary to his time. The process of identifying which writtings were God inspired, God breathed was done in the first and century. When the CC was formed after the edict of toleration where Constantine appointed himself as the first Vicar of the church, the 27 books of the NT were adopted somewhere around 394 by the RCC . Just history …,

 

[Doormouse]

So Jesus Now says " you are Constantine, who holds the keys to heaven, and upon I will. Build my church?

 

[NextElement]

I don’t know why everyone is freaking out, saying America is now Sodom and Gomorrah, I expect it from crazy Protestant ministers, but not from Catholics.

The law that was passed is a law from a nation of humans, and thats it. If you truly believe a Catholic marriage is the only valid marriage then you should have been freaking out when any other religion’s marriages were declared valid in the US, or when any other laws in opposition to Catholic teaching were passed. But he only uproar seems to be coming from this same sex marriage law. Why? I don’t know.

Laws made by humans have no affect on laws made by God. Let them be wrong just like you let someone lying or stealing be wrong. As a Catholic I think SSM is invalid and ridiculous, but it’s hard for me to argue against this law in a nation that is not Catholic.

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Remain on the topic please.

 

[Memaw]

I wonder if John Hagee feels the same way about divorce and remarriage? I seem to recall Jesus saying that anyone who divorces and remarries commits adultery. Yet, he didn’t seem to have a problem with that in 1975.

And what about Birth Control and Abortion??? I believe if all Christians would have stood together against all this, we wouldn’t be having the problems today that our society has brought upon us. I don’t think Pastor Hagee was trying to tell God what to do as much as he was warning us that we are worse off now than they were then. God have Mercy on us, God Bless, Memaw

 

[Memaw]

You mean the Bible? The bible is not a catholic book. The bible is 66 books penned by 40 authors over thousands of years. The OT was written comes from the Jewish people. The NT was penned by the followers of Jesus contemporary to his time. The process of identifying which writtings were God inspired, God breathed was done in the first and century. When the CC was formed after the edict of toleration where Constantine appointed himself as the first Vicar of the church, the 27 books of the NT were adopted somewhere around 394 by the RCC . Just history …,

I’d be interested to know where you get your history??? God Bless, Memaw

 

[SyroMalankara]

You mean the Bible? The bible is not a catholic book.

So its a -whatevr denomination you are - book?

The bible is 66 books penned by 40 authors over thousands of years.

Mm… You’re missing 6 and a few others, but I’ll play along.

The OT was written comes from the Jewish people.

Oh, which Jewish people, because different communities of Jews had different Tanakh.

The NT was penned by the followers of Jesus contemporary to his time. The process of identifying which writtings were God inspired, God breathed was done in the first and century.

Was your denomination around then?

When the CC was formed after the edict of toleration where Constantine appointed himself as the first Vicar of the church

What was the edict of toleration tolerating

the 27 books of the NT were adopted somewhere around 394 by the RCC . Just history …,

 

[Memaw]

I studied the Bible since I was a young man in a Jesuit School, at university and since. I am well aware of Canonical teaching which is why I am relapsed. As you see I my views on Paul are not orthodox. I see Paul as subverting the thrust of Jesus teachings with philosophical and moral add-ons. I call myself relapsed because I thought Pope Francis could return the Church to its Jewish theological foundations. Sadly that mountain appears to high for any Pope to climb. So here I am relapsed and looking towards the Nazarenes for comfort.

I guess some like to take the easy way out. Prayers!! God Bless, Memaw

 

[rnmvrck]

Hi Rnmvrck, just a couple of questions for clarification.
What specific doctrines of denomination churches have that have no biblical basis whatsoever?
What do you believe the “strong delusion” in the last days will be?

Hi Rnmvrck, just a couple of questions for clarification.
What specific doctrines of denomination churches have that have no biblical basis whatsoever?
What do you believe the “strong delusion” in the last days will be?

1. Prayers to saints, all the statues, the elevation / prayers to Mary, prayers to the dead, whole notion of purgatory, limbo, necessity of baptism for salvation, only those in the Catholic Church, the meaning attached to communion, authority and infallibility of the pope. One specific is Mary and Matt 1:25, and other biblical verses where Jesus has brothers, one of them James, and Mary has a son James. Catholics come up with all sorts of ways to change the meaning of what the verses say! Catholic Church says that Mary was always a virgin despite Matt 1:25 and that verses about the brothers and sisters of Jesus (Mark, names the brothers rather matter-of-factly: James, Joses, Judas, and Simon. Mark mentions but does name the sisters). Catholics try to say God did not really mean what He says and says what he means so they invent stories that explain their doctrine that is not found in the Bible (e.g., James was really a cousin). I also see that Catholics are way off in their eschatology as to what the Bible states especially regarding the Jewish people. The RCC believes they have replaces the Jewish as God’s chosen, and nothing could be further from the truth based upon Scripture.

In my response above, I cited what the Bible says about the matters that were brought up. I have seen a lot of personal attacks but none that addresses the substance of what I said the Bible says which is the more important matter here. So, if someone wants to dispute something they should do it based upon what the Bible states. Now the bible I study from is the KJV as I believe that version is the most accurate to the original scripture. A catholic version I read has the same verses with differences in the text, but the meaning seems to be there also.

1. “The Lie” – please read Thessalonians 2, chapter 2. In your apologetics section, someone brought this issue up. In this NT book, Paul describes a time in the latter days, the church will be taken out and after that time the man is sin will be revealed. Note that the verses state that He that restrains Sin will be removed. And that is the Holy Spirit resulting in lawlessness, wickedness and evil… Paul goes on to say that God will send a great delusion to man that many will believe “the lie”. I have no idea what “the lie” will be, but God sends a delusion such that most people believe it. Only those that know and understand the truth will not be deceived… The catholic bible has essentially the same meaning with minor but significant differences which I then look up up to see what the original Greek says “a lie”.

Why am I here on the site? I was catholic educated all the way from grade school through a prep school run by Benedictine monks to a Jesuit university with a minor in theology. Long time ago. I wanted to see if an how the church had changed since then. It is nice to see that some Catholics now read the bible. I get many questions from Catholics so I am trying to better understand what Catholics believe relative to the Bible and if they believe what it says.

I appreciate your questions and hope I have answered what you have asked for.

 

[rnmvrck]

I’d be interested to know where you get your history??? God Bless, Memaw

I have a number of sources from historians who wrote about early Church history, identifying and verifying new testament docments, writing history of the roman empire. I will be happy to provide those exact sources when I return home in another week as I am on vacation and do not have access to all my references. Although a mathematican by profession I study history, especially biblical history. My main focus for several years hs been eschalolgy and I believe we live in a time that the Bible speaks more about than any other time.

 

[rnmvrck]

Okay, you love John Hagee…we got that.
Here’s a more important question.
Where does John Hagee get his authority to interpret a Book that the Catholic Church produced?

I, nor do I think John Hagee, nor Skip Heitzig nor Chuck Smith, try to interpret the Bible. In fact the catholic version says essentially the same things as most other reputable Bible. Rather, we read the Bible according to Acts 17:11 to check what is the truth in the Bible. In my response, I did not intrepet anything. I mearely stated what the Bible and God says, and I backed up my sTEMENTS by providng biblical references. I could care less if anyone chooses to believe or not believe, but I am just stating what God says. If you would like to refute any of those statements, please do, but have some verses to back you up as the Bible is the inerrant word of God and their are no contradictions. Every word is there for a reason. The Bible is an integrated message system of God’s plan for redemption of man.

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Second time.
The topic please.