R
Richard320
Guest
Reverend is a professional title, just as someone with an M.D. gets called Doctor. That’s all.
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PacoG
Guest
In Mexico and areas along to border, deacons are sometimes called “Padrecito” (loosely translated as “Little Father”).
B
Brightest_Star
Guest
Thanks for all the answers, I have it straight now.
For the record… I live in Toronto, Canada - part of the UK commonwealth and they’re using ‘Pastor’ here. Hadn’t even heard of ‘Vicar’, but Canada is a really big country and there are huge differences between the provinces…
And yes, I worry to much; but I’m also a brand spankin’ new Catholic so I have a lot of questions, some of them are bound to be dumb
, 
How could I think that the Pastor might not be a Priest?
Well, first, I didn’t know a Bishop gave him the job, or that anyone was keeping track, (I haven’t even begun to learn the structures, hierarchies and such within the church, mostly I’ve learned what the beliefs and practices are)… although it makes sense now that you mention it. And second, I’ve heard of doctors that never actually graduated medical school, lawyers that made up their law degrees, and all manner of people who pretend to be people they aren’t. So I suppose I run on the cautious side regarding people of ‘authority’.
Anyways thanks for clearing that up and Have a Blessed Easter!
For the record… I live in Toronto, Canada - part of the UK commonwealth and they’re using ‘Pastor’ here. Hadn’t even heard of ‘Vicar’, but Canada is a really big country and there are huge differences between the provinces…
And yes, I worry to much; but I’m also a brand spankin’ new Catholic so I have a lot of questions, some of them are bound to be dumb
, How could I think that the Pastor might not be a Priest?
Well, first, I didn’t know a Bishop gave him the job, or that anyone was keeping track, (I haven’t even begun to learn the structures, hierarchies and such within the church, mostly I’ve learned what the beliefs and practices are)… although it makes sense now that you mention it. And second, I’ve heard of doctors that never actually graduated medical school, lawyers that made up their law degrees, and all manner of people who pretend to be people they aren’t. So I suppose I run on the cautious side regarding people of ‘authority’.
Anyways thanks for clearing that up and Have a Blessed Easter!
A
andrewstx
Guest
Orthodox call monks Father as well.
A
andrewstx
Guest
To further complicate things, in the American Episcopal chruch only a priest in a mission is called Vicar, and the Priest of a parish is called Rector.
L
LoyalViews
Guest
Yes, the mainland of Canada in some places is quite “Americanised” so you will hear Pastor, however, in the Atlantic provinces such as Nova Scotia, PEI, New Brunswick, and Newfoundland, are very British/Irish, so you’re more likely to hear Vicar or Parish Priest.Thanks for all the answers, I have it straight now.
For the record… I live in Toronto, Canada - part of the UK commonwealth and they’re using ‘Pastor’ here. Hadn’t even heard of ‘Vicar’, but Canada is a really big country and there are huge differences between the provinces…
And yes, I worry to much; but I’m also a brand spankin’ new Catholic so I have a lot of questions, some of them are bound to be dumb
How could I think that the Pastor might not be a Priest?
Well, first, I didn’t know a Bishop gave him the job, or that anyone was keeping track, (I haven’t even begun to learn the structures, hierarchies and such within the church, mostly I’ve learned what the beliefs and practices are)… although it makes sense now that you mention it. And second, I’ve heard of doctors that never actually graduated medical school, lawyers that made up their law degrees, and all manner of people who pretend to be people they aren’t. So I suppose I run on the cautious side regarding people of ‘authority’.
Anyways thanks for clearing that up and Have a Blessed Easter!
Don’t worry too much, though. I doubt you’ll find someone referred to as “pastor” in a Catholic Church who isn’t a priest.
J
JReducation
Guest
Actually, the problem began with Americans, as do most problems with language in the Church.On our chuch’s weekly newsflyer it always says;
As far as I know, a Pastor is leader of a Protestant, Methodist or Baptist church, is called Reverend, and is *not *ordained to do the Sacraments by the Roman Catholic Church. Yet everyone in church calls the Priest ‘Priest’, addresses him as Father, and he certainly dresses talks and behaves like a Priest. And of course, he does the Sacraments.
- Pastor: Rev. Name Here
- Deacon: Rev. Name Here
So my questions are;
It’s probably a petty thing but it’s really bugging me…
- Are the names Priest/Pastor, Father/Reverend interchangeable within the RCC?
- Does it matter what he’s called?
- Is this just some mistake by the secretary do you think?
- Or, hate to think it but… could we be recieving Sacraments from someone who is *not *ordained by the RCC? Which in my mind means we’re recieving no Sacrament at all…
The proper form of address for a diocesan or any other kind of secular priest is Mister. Father is a term taken from religious orders of priests. Until the mid 1800s, we did call all Diocesan priests and secular priests such as Maryknoll, Mister Smith The deacon was called Rev. Deacon Smith. A bishop was Dr. Smith or Rt. Rev. Dr. Smith.
Relgious priests that belonged to orders of priests were called Father and if they were bishop, the were called Excellency.
Religious priests who belonged to lay orders such as the Benedictines, Franciscans, Cistercians, Trappists and Servites were called either Friar or Brother. If they were bishops, they were still called Friar. The idea was to blur the lines between the ordained and the non ordained. This is pretty much the practice in the rest of the world, except the USA.
Today the more common titles in the USA are
For secular clergy: diocesan or other such as SSPX, FSSP, Maryknoll, Missionhurst, etc
Rev. Mr Smith or Deacon Smith or Deacon John
Rev. John Smith or Father Smith or Father John
Most Rev. John Smith or Bishop Smith or Excellency
For regular clergy: belonging to orders of priests
Rev. Brother John or Deacon John
Rev. John Smith or Father John Smith
Most Rev. John Smith or Bishops John Smith or Excellency
For “lay” clergy: clergy or are Cistercian, Benedictine, Franciscan, Trinitarian or Servite
Rev. Brother John or Rev. Friar John (for deacons and priests)
Most Rev. John Smith or Bishop Smith or Excellency
Very Rev. John Smith or Father John (for the major superior - be he a priest or not)
In Europe the secular priests, be they diocesan or members of an institute are often referred to as Mister. The Italians, Spanish and Portuguese say Don, such as Don John Bosco or Don Giovanni Montini for Pope Paul VI. The French use Monsieur such as Monsieur Vincent for St. Vincent de Paul or Monsieur Jean Marie Baptiste, for St. John Vianney Notice that the French omit the last name. The German’s also use Herr and Troy.
In the Latin countries of Europe, Padre was reserved for consecrated priests, such as Padre Pio. We see in the writings of St. John Bosco a transition from Don Giovanni to Padre Giovanni. That’s because he founds the Salesians and makes vows. He is no longer a priest in the world. He is now a consecrated priest. He drops Don and takes up Padre.
The term pastor, in the Catholic Church is canonically reserved for the Ordinary of the diocese. That would be the bishop. Not all bishops are ordinaries, many are auxiliaries and are ordinaries of defunct sees. Therefore, they have no jurisdiction.
The term pastor is used for the parish priest only in the USA and Canada. Other English speaking countries call him the Vicar, which is his appropriate rank, because he is the bishop’s vicar. All priests in a diocese, regular or secular, share in the priesthood of the bishop, who is the only pastor. Often, people get confused when they read Church documents because they’ll speak about the pastors, meaning the bishops. In our country, we think that they document is speaking to or about the parish priest.
What’s becoming even more confusing is that in the USA, many dioceses are switching over from Associate Pastor or Assistant Pastor to Parrochial Vicar, which is the term used for pastors in English speaking Europe. I don’t know what Australia and New Zealand use. South Africa also uses the English terms.
The only pastors that do not have parrochial vicars are those parishes run by religious, because in religious life the term vicar is reserved for a major superior such as the Vicar General or the Vicar Provincial or the Local Vicar. This would be the second in command at each level. It becomes confusing if you have a religious house at a parish and you have a parrochial vicar and then you have the vicar of the house.
When dealing with Benedictines, Cistercians, Trappists, Franciscans, Servites and Trinitarians, want to pay attention to how they address each other. These orders are gradually going back to Brother or Friar, but they are not doing it at the same time. Each jurisdiction is doing it on its own schedule. However, if you call one of them Father, when he goes by Brother, you may get your head bitten off. You’ll get some comment like, “I’m a brother first and priest second,” or some snappy response like that. The Cistercians take this very seriously. The almost act offended that you would place priesthood over religious life . Franciscans will correct you, “My name is Brother John Smith.”
You never go wrong with Rev. when in doubt.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, FFV
P
paperwight66
Guest
A slight correction, if I may, Bro. JR.
In the UK, ‘Parish Priest’ is the term applied to a priest in charge of a parish. A ‘Vicar’ is commonly understood to be a Church of England counterpart, likewise a ‘Rector’ - the difference being in the type of ‘living’ (parish appointment) they have, which is related to who had the right to bestow it originally. But confusingly, the C of E clergy refer to themselves as parish priests. (And many call themselves ‘Father’ So-and So).
I’ve jusr been checking in our (RC) Archdiocese Directory. There are ‘Vicariates’ - ‘evangelism’, ‘vocations’, ‘education’ and the like - some of which are listed as having ‘Episcopal Vicars’ in charge of them.
But the term ‘Parochial Vicar’ is not heard here.
In the UK, ‘Parish Priest’ is the term applied to a priest in charge of a parish. A ‘Vicar’ is commonly understood to be a Church of England counterpart, likewise a ‘Rector’ - the difference being in the type of ‘living’ (parish appointment) they have, which is related to who had the right to bestow it originally. But confusingly, the C of E clergy refer to themselves as parish priests. (And many call themselves ‘Father’ So-and So).
I’ve jusr been checking in our (RC) Archdiocese Directory. There are ‘Vicariates’ - ‘evangelism’, ‘vocations’, ‘education’ and the like - some of which are listed as having ‘Episcopal Vicars’ in charge of them.
But the term ‘Parochial Vicar’ is not heard here.
P
PacoG
Guest
A neighboring parish is also home to a group of Oratorian Fathers. One priest (the eldest of the four) has the title Very Reverend. Does that mean he is some kind of superior?
Our parish shares a Franciscan with another parish. At the other parish (where the other Pastor is also a Franciscan), he as the title Parochial Vicar while at our parish (where our late Pastor and the current Temporary Parish Administrator was/is diocesan priests), he has the title “Part-time Assistant.” When we first got him three years ago, we were told that what title to give him was complicated by the fact that he was a Franciscan and not a diocesan so he could not be a Parochial Vicar.
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LoyalViews
Guest
Br JR, TO THE RESCUE!!Actually, the problem began with Americans, as do most problems with language in the Church.
The proper form of address for a diocesan or any other kind of secular priest is Mister. Father is a term taken from religious orders of priests. Until the mid 1800s, we did call all Diocesan priests and secular priests such as Maryknoll, Mister Smith The deacon was called Rev. Deacon Smith. A bishop was Dr. Smith or Rt. Rev. Dr. Smith.
Relgious priests that belonged to orders of priests were called Father and if they were bishop, the were called Excellency.
Religious priests who belonged to lay orders such as the Benedictines, Franciscans, Cistercians, Trappists and Servites were called either Friar or Brother. If they were bishops, they were still called Friar. The idea was to blur the lines between the ordained and the non ordained. This is pretty much the practice in the rest of the world, except the USA.
Today the more common titles in the USA are
For secular clergy: diocesan or other such as SSPX, FSSP, Maryknoll, Missionhurst, etc
Rev. Mr Smith or Deacon Smith or Deacon John
Rev. John Smith or Father Smith or Father John
Most Rev. John Smith or Bishop Smith or Excellency
For regular clergy: belonging to orders of priests
Rev. Brother John or Deacon John
Rev. John Smith or Father John Smith
Most Rev. John Smith or Bishops John Smith or Excellency
For “lay” clergy: clergy or are Cistercian, Benedictine, Franciscan, Trinitarian or Servite
Rev. Brother John or Rev. Friar John (for deacons and priests)
Most Rev. John Smith or Bishop Smith or Excellency
Very Rev. John Smith or Father John (for the major superior - be he a priest or not)
In Europe the secular priests, be they diocesan or members of an institute are often referred to as Mister. The Italians, Spanish and Portuguese say Don, such as Don John Bosco or Don Giovanni Montini for Pope Paul VI. The French use Monsieur such as Monsieur Vincent for St. Vincent de Paul or Monsieur Jean Marie Baptiste, for St. John Vianney Notice that the French omit the last name. The German’s also use Herr and Troy.
In the Latin countries of Europe, Padre was reserved for consecrated priests, such as Padre Pio. We see in the writings of St. John Bosco a transition from Don Giovanni to Padre Giovanni. That’s because he founds the Salesians and makes vows. He is no longer a priest in the world. He is now a consecrated priest. He drops Don and takes up Padre.
The term pastor, in the Catholic Church is canonically reserved for the Ordinary of the diocese. That would be the bishop. Not all bishops are ordinaries, many are auxiliaries and are ordinaries of defunct sees. Therefore, they have no jurisdiction.
The term pastor is used for the parish priest only in the USA and Canada. Other English speaking countries call him the Vicar, which is his appropriate rank, because he is the bishop’s vicar. All priests in a diocese, regular or secular, share in the priesthood of the bishop, who is the only pastor. Often, people get confused when they read Church documents because they’ll speak about the pastors, meaning the bishops. In our country, we think that they document is speaking to or about the parish priest.
What’s becoming even more confusing is that in the USA, many dioceses are switching over from Associate Pastor or Assistant Pastor to Parrochial Vicar, which is the term used for pastors in English speaking Europe. I don’t know what Australia and New Zealand use. South Africa also uses the English terms.
The only pastors that do not have parrochial vicars are those parishes run by religious, because in religious life the term vicar is reserved for a major superior such as the Vicar General or the Vicar Provincial or the Local Vicar. This would be the second in command at each level. It becomes confusing if you have a religious house at a parish and you have a parrochial vicar and then you have the vicar of the house.
When dealing with Benedictines, Cistercians, Trappists, Franciscans, Servites and Trinitarians, want to pay attention to how they address each other. These orders are gradually going back to Brother or Friar, but they are not doing it at the same time. Each jurisdiction is doing it on its own schedule. However, if you call one of them Father, when he goes by Brother, you may get your head bitten off. You’ll get some comment like, “I’m a brother first and priest second,” or some snappy response like that. The Cistercians take this very seriously. The almost act offended that you would place priesthood over religious life . Franciscans will correct you, “My name is Brother John Smith.”
You never go wrong with Rev. when in doubt.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, FFV
J
JReducation
Guest
Thanks for the clarification. Rector in the Latin Church is reserved for the priest administrator of either a Cathedral parish or a non parochial church such as a shrine.
If he is Very Reverend, he is the major superior. He outranks the pastor, unless he is the pastor. Otherwise, the pastor answers to him. He also has indirect authority over the laity in that he sets the tone for the religious who minister to the laity. He sets their schedules and he makes sure that the spirituality that they convey is within the parameters of their charism. Their priorities in the parish must be the priorities of the community. He also has the power to remove the pastor or any other of his priests and replace them. Neither the bishop nor the laity have control over that.
He is probably the Vicar of the House. In that case, there would be no conflict and confusion between two vicars.
That is correct. The he is not part of the staff, because he already has an assignment at another parish and he has duties to his community which take precedence over his priestly ministry. The poor guy is probably over extended with one full-time job in one parish, part time in another and it sounds as if he’s a vicar superior in his community.
That’s enough cowls for one friar to wear.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, FFV
A
AcaiBerry
Guest
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