Pastor told to apologize for participating in Newtown vigil?

[CalCatholic]

This article really disturbed me! www.click2houston.com/news/Pastor-apologizes-for-part-in-Newtown-vigil/-/1735978/18452044/-/12yi2hj/-/index.html

This could have been handled a lot better than it was. One of the children killed was his parishioner.

 

[chero23]

It’s sad that the Pastors church is taking that stance against his action. All the man did was hold a inter faith prayer, all walks all life were there. If I was not mistaken, they had Catholic, Methodist, Jewish, Muslim, and other Protestant groups.

Everybody in that room is a sinner, the Church should not look down on others, on the contrary that should of been a moment of unity, even doh they were from different religious faiths.

I hope the best for the Pastor

 

[CalCatholic]

It’s sad that the Pastors church is taking that stance against his action. All the man did was hold a inter faith prayer, all walks all life were there. If I was not mistaken, they had Catholic, Methodist, Jewish, Muslim, and other Protestant groups.

Everybody in that room is a sinner, the Church should not look down on others, on the contrary that should of been a moment of unity, even doh they were from different religious faiths.

I hope the best for the Pastor

Could you imagine the questions that would have been asked from the community and the parishioners in his own church if he had not attended??? Sorry, I’m not allowed to go.

 

[batman1973]

Strange that it’s LCMS. Thats something you’d expect from WELS.

 

[JonNC]

It’s sad that the Pastors church is taking that stance against his action. All the man did was hold a inter faith prayer, all walks all life were there. If I was not mistaken, they had Catholic, Methodist, Jewish, Muslim, and other Protestant groups.

Everybody in that room is a sinner, the Church should not look down on others, on the contrary that should of been a moment of unity, even doh they were from different religious faiths.

I hope the best for the Pastor

Had the service been at a Catholic Church, and a mass been held, would the Church have allowed others to participate in the Eucharist “in a moment of unity”?
LCMS Lutheran pastors have restrictions on the kind of service they may be a part of, and all of them know it, and the grounds are similar to the Catholic Churches restrictions on Eucharistic hospitaility.
I think, at times, the policy is rather restrictive, but it is up to the synod to deal with that aspect.

Jon

 

[chero23]

Could you imagine the questions that would have been asked from the community and the parishioners in his own church if he had not attended??? Sorry, I’m not allowed to go.

But don’t you think that him as a pastor has to take a strong stance and show a stance of unity?

 

[chero23]

Had the service been at a Catholic Church, and a mass been held, would the Church have allowed others to participate in the Eucharist “in a moment of unity”?
LCMS Lutheran pastors have restrictions on the kind of service they may be a part of, and all of them know it, and the grounds are similar to the Catholic Churches restrictions on Eucharistic hospitaility.
I think, at times, the policy is rather restrictive, but it is up to the synod to deal with that aspect.

Jon

I for one feel the pastor did the right thing and Im Catholic. Look the vigil was not about my Church is better than yours, on the contrary, it was unity across the board, and his people should just realize that he did what was best for the community during a hard time for the town.

 

[JonNC]

I for one feel the pastor did the right thing and Im Catholic. Look the vigil was not about my Church is better than yours, on the contrary, it was unity across the board, and his people should just realize that he did what was best for the community during a hard time for the town.

I’m not arguing he did the wrong thing in terms of the community. But anyway, I don’t think the reasoning is ‘my Church is better than yours’ for the policy, anymore than I think that’s the reason for closed communion.

Jon

 

[chero23]

I’m not arguing he did the wrong thing in terms of the community. But anyway, I don’t think the reasoning is ‘my Church is better than yours’ for the policy, anymore than I think that’s the reason for closed communion.

Jon

My question is not that of argument JonC, so if it is my apologies ahead of time. But if I remember correctly the vigil that the report was written about was the one that was held on Sunday at a high school auditorium if Im not mistaken. I don’t remember there being any communion. Each Pastor, Priest, rabbi, from their perspective Church did a prayer, I dont recall seeing communion that evening.

 

[hn160]

Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod pastors are not allowed to pray or participate in joint services with non-Christians. By doing so would be syncretism. By the same way, it is Lutheran pastors for Lutheran Pulpits and Lutherans Altars, this is also a LC-MS policy.

 

[CalCatholic]

Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod pastors are not allowed to pray or participate in joint services with non-Christians. By doing so would be syncretism. By the same way, it is Lutheran pastors for Lutheran Pulpits and Lutherans Altars, this is also a LC-MS policy.

I think he made a pastoral decision considering the magnitude of the circumstances, one of his own little ones was a victim. Sometimes the rules get over looked and if handled correctly, maybe a memo for future reference gets issued, this would not have make the news.

 

[Dale_M]

I’m not arguing he did the wrong thing in terms of the community. But anyway, I don’t think the reasoning is ‘my Church is better than yours’ for the policy, anymore than I think that’s the reason for closed communion.

Yes, I don’t think the LCMS is being snobbish or looking down on other faiths.

Another analogy would be how the Catholic Church is restrictive in which Christian bodies it considers to be a Church e.g. the various Orthodox Churches. The Catholic Church denies that label to the LCMS and other Protestant denominations, instead labeling them as “ecclesial communities.” Some Protestant writers have been insulted by this, but the policy is based upon careful theological reasoning.

The LCMS’ ban on participation in inter-faith/syncretist services has been controversial before. As I recall, a pastor who was part of the Yankee Stadium memorial service for the victims of 9/11, which was held shortly after the tragedy, was brought up on charges by the synod, despite pre-approval by the synod president.
christianitytoday.com/ct/2002/julyweb-only/7-29-31.0.html

But Catholics of this forum are well aware that many of practices of our Church are controversial to outsiders: e.g. male-only priesthood or priestly celibacy

 

[BernadetteM]

My only knowledge of the LMCS is from one of their websites and it is very very anti Catholic, so it appears that if this is their stand on any church or religion that is not part of their group it seems they think they are the only ture Christians.

I wonder if this applies to the several other Lultheran Synods as well, are LMCS allowed to attend their meetings also? There is much critizism of other Lutheran groups. It appears to the reader that they feel they are the “True Church” and are afraid if one attends another church/denomination or religion service they might convert. Who knows what their thinking is.

As far as I am concerned it is unChristian, especially in this circumstance.

Of course all churches have their own distinct beliefs, however, LMCS is the only one that I know disciplines their clergy for attending interfaith events.

Not trying to be judgemental, it just seems such an unChristian act as it has nothing to do with unity, except in expressing sorrow for the death of the victims.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[ltwin]

My only knowledge of the LMCS is from one of their websites and it is very very anti Catholic, so it appears that if this is their stand on any church or religion that is not part of their group it seems they think they are the only ture Christians.

I wonder if this applies to the several other Lultheran Synods as well, are LMCS allowed to attend their meetings also? There is much critizism of other Lutheran groups. It appears to the reader that they feel they are the “True Church” and are afraid if one attends another church/denomination or religion service they might convert. Who knows what their thinking is.

As far as I am concerned it is unChristian, especially in this circumstance.

Of course all churches have their own distinct beliefs, however, LMCS is the only one that I know disciplines their clergy for attending interfaith events.

Not trying to be judgemental, it just seems such an unChristian act as it has nothing to do with unity, except in expressing sorrow for the death of the victims.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

It’s not that they think they are the “True Church.” Look people, every church puts limits on how far their priests and ministers can go when working with representatives of other churches that they are not in communion with and other religions. This is not to be snobby or exclusive. They do what they feel they must to maintain doctrinal integrity. To some, including myself, the LCMS’s policy is too broad. However, I understand the reasons for the policy, just as I understand the reason why the Catholic Church does not allow me as a non-Catholic to take communion with them. They have boundaries that they think are important to set. I’m assuming this pastor knew what the rules were, so its right that he apologize for acting as a representative of the LCMS in an interfaith service that they do not approve of. It’s misleading and lawless. There are other ways to be pastoral besides participating in an interfaith vigil.

 

[BernadetteM]

You can’t compare not allowing one to take Communion with not allowing one to show their respect when tragedy happens.

The LMCS also does not allow inter commuion. It is a safe guard within the Catholic Church to restrict only Catholics who know that they are actually receiving the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ in the Eucharist, where we are warned in scripture that one is not to take communion unless he recognizes it is truely His flesh and blood and is without mortal sin. To do so is to call judgement upon themselves. So the Church is actually trying to avoid those not in compliance with Christ’s words with damning themselves. What the Lutheran thought for denying those outside the LMCS from taking communion is, I have no idea. I believe other Lutheran bodies are not allowed to receive communion from LMCS churches either. However, in the Catholic Church all Catholics and at times Orthodox Christians may receive as they have the correct understanding of Holy Communion.

The was just an event, it had nothing to do with doctrine, nor participating in a communion service. I would assume then that LMCS clerics would also be forbidden from attending a funeral or memorial service for our fallen soldiers as I am sure that the services are interfaith, in the sense that those attending might be from many different denominations including clerics. That is, if you carry your logic to its end.

Who knows their real reason for this rule, as I said I know very little about the LMCS, but find other Lutheran Synods more unifying Christians as a whole.

God Bless Bernadette

 

[benjohnson]

I know very little about the LMCS, but find other Lutheran Synods more unifying Christians as a whole.

God Bless Bernadette

That very well may be.

When someone cries out for unity, for me, the general question that I usually ask is if we are placing the desire for unity above the need for God’s truth.

In this instance the LCMS is being a bit rigorous, but frankly if one if a LCMS member you usually never have to wonder what is correct teaching.

…

After thinking about this and upon reflection:

Let me backtrack… I think the LCMS is very correct in this instance - regardless of the tragedy, we do not wan’t our government leading us in psudo-religious services.

Frankly, I would be infinitely more comfortable with an honest but incorrect service lead by almost any other religion, than by a service dreamt up by a government bureaucrat.

Our respective religions are not little totems to be placed around the alter of Unity.

 

[Eutychus123]

Pastor Morris wrote. " In the end, I believed my participation to be, not an act of joint worship, but an act of community chaplaincy. Chaplains are expected to give faithful witness under circumstances which are less than ecclesiastically perfect, even as their fellow chaplains may proclaim a different witness."

I wholeheartedly agree. He should not have apologized.

 

[exnihilo]

I can understand the LCMS stance here. They do not mention this, but as soon as the US president decided to jet in it became a political event as much as anything. If he was there officially as US president and pseudo Paraclete, and it seems he was since he spoke, then the assembly necessarily becomes anti-Christian. Under such conditions ones participation should be curtailed.

 

[ltwin]

You can’t compare not allowing one to take Communion with not allowing one to show their respect when tragedy happens.

The LMCS also does not allow inter commuion. It is a safe guard within the Catholic Church to restrict only Catholics who know that they are actually receiving the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ in the Eucharist, where we are warned in scripture that one is not to take communion unless he recognizes it is truely His flesh and blood and is without mortal sin. To do so is to call judgement upon themselves. So the Church is actually trying to avoid those not in compliance with Christ’s words with damning themselves. What the Lutheran thought for denying those outside the LMCS from taking communion is, I have no idea. I believe other Lutheran bodies are not allowed to receive communion from LMCS churches either. However, in the Catholic Church all Catholics and at times Orthodox Christians may receive as they have the correct understanding of Holy Communion.

The was just an event, it had nothing to do with doctrine, nor participating in a communion service. I would assume then that LMCS clerics would also be forbidden from attending a funeral or memorial service for our fallen soldiers as I am sure that the services are interfaith, in the sense that those attending might be from many different denominations including clerics. That is, if you carry your logic to its end.

Who knows their real reason for this rule, as I said I know very little about the LMCS, but find other Lutheran Synods more unifying Christians as a whole.

God Bless Bernadette

That’s your opinion. But again, you are Catholic, not LCMS. I think its very presumptuous and uncharitable for Christians of other traditions, churches, communions, and denominations to judge the policies and rules of other Christian bodies simply because it doesn’t make sense to them. Closed communion in the Catholic Church may offend people, does that mean the Catholic Church is wrong? I believe women should be allowed to be ordained, does that mean the Catholic Church is wrong because it offends me? If you are not LCMS, why concern yourselves with it?

 

[JHow]

I feel like this is a non story intended only to highlight the “intolerance” of the LCMS. It seems like the pastor received a very minor course correction from his superiors. Kind if like the old “appearance of impropriety” standards the army applied to fraternization. I appreciate what the LCMS are trying to do - pouring out wine to Caesar wasn’t a “big deal” back in the day either.