Pastoral advice: what if a couple wants IVF?

[LongJohnSilver]

Hello all,

I would like some (name removed by moderator)ut on the following case, especially from a pastoral point of view.

*A catholic young couple, being unable to become pregnant via the natural way, are considering IVF. They are serious catholics who ask their priest for advice.

How can the priest explain the teachings of the Church while also appreciating the couple’s difficulty and showing pastoral care?*

Please, let this not turn into a discussion, I just want some perspectives and advice. Thanks.

 

[GEddie]

Hello all,

I would like some (name removed by moderator)ut on the following case, especially from a pastoral point of view.

*A catholic young couple, being unable to become pregnant via the natural way, are considering IVF. They are serious catholics who ask their priest for advice.

How can the priest explain the teachings of the Church while also appreciating the couple’s difficulty and showing pastoral care?*

Please, let this not turn into a discussion, I just want some perspectives and advice. Thanks.

Sometimes it is kindest just to be direct, and say, “Morally, this is wrong, and the Church teaches why it is so…”

At the same time, express sympathy for their feelings.

There is no easy or comforting way to do this. In these matters, feelings run deep. But the truth is what it is, and our LORD said things like He saw them.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[WingsOfEagles]

We believe life begins at the tiniest stage. With IVF, they have fertilize multiple eggs and then see which ones appear healthy enough to use. They implant some and throw out the rest. This is abortion at the smallest stage.

God also intended that children be created without the marital relations of the two spouses and IVF goes against this natural order. If a couple can’t get pregnant, they should consider adoption of a child who needs a loving home.

 

[Joe_5859]

Hello all,

I would like some (name removed by moderator)ut on the following case, especially from a pastoral point of view.

*A catholic young couple, being unable to become pregnant via the natural way, are considering IVF. They are serious catholics who ask their priest for advice.

How can the priest explain the teachings of the Church while also appreciating the couple’s difficulty and showing pastoral care?*

Please, let this not turn into a discussion, I just want some perspectives and advice. Thanks.

There’s not always an easy way to sugar-coat the Cross. And yet we are all called to take up our cross and follow Jesus. That can be hard. For a couple in this situation, the priest shouldn’t pretend that it is an easy thing for them.

But, of course, difficult life circumstances do not give us license to commit immoral acts. We cannot separate procreation from the marital act. Children are not a “right” that we can obtain via any means necessary.

Adoption and foster care are two other alternatives. There are plenty of kids out there in need of a stable loving home.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Hello all,

I would like some (name removed by moderator)ut on the following case, especially from a pastoral point of view.

*A catholic young couple, being unable to become pregnant via the natural way, are considering IVF. They are serious catholics who ask their priest for advice.

How can the priest explain the teachings of the Church while also appreciating the couple’s difficulty and showing pastoral care?*

Please, let this not turn into a discussion, I just want some perspectives and advice. Thanks.

Sometimes I think “pastoral care” has been hijacked by those who are not orthodox. One can be quite pastoral while dispensing the Truth.

 

[PietroPaolo]

Perhaps it could be explained to the couple that a child has a right to be born in an act love - not as a science experiment. Children are gifts from God, gifts are not things we have a right to demand. Children are gifts, not commodities to be purchased and manufactured in a laboratory. Further, IVF is a mortal sin (under normal circumstances), the kind of sin that sends people (if not repented) to Hell for all eternity. In other words, it isn’t the kind of thing to play around with.

The priest might want to soften all that a bit (to be “pastoral” and all), but that is the underlying principal. Get the couple to understand that and they might abandon the IVF idea.

 

[LongJohnSilver]

Thanks everbody, for the (name removed by moderator)ut. I didn’t mean to suggest a divide between the truth of the Church’s teaching and the pastoral attitude towards the couple. I was looking for a pastoral way to explain the truth, one that would help them understand the truth and also give them comfort and maybe even hope.

 

[Sunshine26]

Have them look into Naprotechnology. They can find practitioners and doctors that offer it on the FertilityCare Centers of America website. Most practitioners and doctors work very well with couples long distance if no one is close by to them.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Thanks everbody, for the (name removed by moderator)ut. I didn’t mean to suggest a divide between the truth of the Church’s teaching and the pastoral attitude towards the couple. I was looking for a pastoral way to explain the truth, one that would help them understand the truth and also give them comfort and maybe even hope.

No problem! I just wondered in what way you meant pastoral. In it’s purest form a priest should counsel them on the correct teaching. I am not sure what you mean by “hope” Hope that they can conceive or adopt? Hope that the Church will change? Hope in Christ? :shrug:That is confusing. I am of the mind that in the issue at hand there is almost an over correction to “pastoral” that usually means skipping out on cold, hard, Holy Truth.

As a lay group it is hard for us to really be “pastoral” in this sense. I suppose deacons and counselors and priests and such have this obligation to remain pastoral. I still am not sure what this looks like though, or what you want it to look like that is different than it’s current level of pastor care.

 

[NSFrame]

Whatever you do, do not suggest adoption as an alterative. They have already thought of that and clearly that is not want they want, or else they would not be desperate enough to attempt IVF.

As someone who has had trouble getting/staying pregnant, the thought of adoption as an alternative to conception and pregnancy just makes me angry and sad. It is not an alternative, it cannot substitute creating a child between the couple, and then caring for that child in your womb and giving birth to it.

If someone wants adoption, it’s on its (adoption’s) own merits, not as a consolation prize for infertility.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Whatever you do, do not suggest adoption as an alterative. They have already thought of that and clearly that is not want they want, or else they would not be desperate enough to attempt IVF.

As someone who has had trouble getting/staying pregnant, the thought of adoption as an alternative to conception and pregnancy just makes me angry and sad. It is not an alternative, it cannot substitute creating a child between the couple, and then caring for that child in your womb and giving birth to it.

If someone wants adoption, it’s on its (adoption’s) own merits, not as a consolation prize for infertility.

So if adoption is off the table as a discussion point to this couple in the OP what is on the table?

 

[NSFrame]

So if adoption is off the table as a discussion point to this couple in the OP what is on the table?

I think that’s the point of this thread…and what not to say is as important as what to say.

I would say focusing on the marriage and the blessings brought from the togetherness there is important. Also perhaps working on giving up control of conception to God, since He is in charge of that no matter which way you slice it.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I think that’s the point of this thread…and what not to say is as important as what to say.

I would say focusing on the marriage and the blessings brought from the togetherness there is important. Also perhaps working on giving up control of conception to God, since He is in charge of that no matter which way you slice it.

I just don’t think mentioning adoption should be off the table. A priest’s hands are tied if the advice he is supposed to give is leave it up to God and enjoy each other.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

are considering IVF. They are serious catholics who ask their priest for advice.

This is the part I am confused by. The couple are serious Catholics meaning they already know the teaching. But they are considering sinning. They ask a priest for advice.

 

[WingsOfEagles]

I just don’t think mentioning adoption should be off the table. A priest’s hands are tied if the advice he is supposed to give is leave it up to God and enjoy each other.

I’d agree. As a woman, I understand the desire to experience pregnancy, but if not possible, adoption gives you the whole experience of being a parent. I would think that would be an alternative that an infertile couple would take. I would assume most people have children because they ultimately want to be a parent. I know you don’t get to have people saying how much your child looks like you, but there is still a lot of joy in it.

 

[pensmama87]

I lean toward the side of not mentioning adoption, at least not right away.

I have never struggled with infertility or subfertility, but from what I understand there is a grieving component that comes before a couple can accept the idea that they might never have children of their own. Even with the joys of adoption, that grief is still there. Also, not all infertile couples are called to adopt. Sometimes, it seems like adoption is suggested almost flippantly, “Oh well, you’re broken, do this instead,” when that’s not how it works.

(I’m not saying you’re saying this, but I know people experience this.)

It might be useful for a priest or spiritual director to attempt to figure out WHY IVF has the appeal it does to the couple. Do they even know that IVF is forbidden by the Church? Do they understand why? Are they so upset that they are willing to throw out Church teaching? What do they know of Naprotechnology or even NFP? Even very devout Catholics can experience tremendous temptation to disregard this teaching. Colleen Carroll Campbell mentions it in her book My Sisters the Saints.

My understanding is that accepting infertility is a very different thing from being called to adopt, and the former has to come first for the latter to work. But I’ll be the first to admit I don’t have personal experience with that, it’s just what I’ve heard from others.

 

[NSFrame]

I lean toward the side of not mentioning adoption, at least not right away.

I have never struggled with infertility or subfertility, but from what I understand there is a grieving component that comes before a couple can accept the idea that they might never have children of their own. **Even with the joys of adoption, that grief is still there. Also, not all infertile couples are called to adopt. Sometimes, it seems like adoption is suggested almost flippantly, “Oh well, you’re broken, do this instead,” when that’s not how it works. **
(I’m not saying you’re saying this, but I know people experience this.)

**It might be useful for a priest or spiritual director to attempt to figure out WHY IVF has the appeal it does to the couple. Do they even know that IVF is forbidden by the Church? Do they understand why? Are they so upset that they are willing to throw out Church teaching? **What do they know of Naprotechnology or even NFP? Even very devout Catholics can experience tremendous temptation to disregard this teaching. Colleen Carroll Campbell mentions it in her book My Sisters the Saints.

My understanding is that accepting infertility is a very different thing from being called to adopt, and the former has to come first for the latter to work. But I’ll be the first to admit I don’t have personal experience with that, it’s just what I’ve heard from others.

All of this is so true, thank you for articulating it so well.

 

[Am2010]

Hello all,

I would like some (name removed by moderator)ut on the following case, especially from a pastoral point of view.

*A catholic young couple, being unable to become pregnant via the natural way, are considering IVF. They are serious catholics who ask their priest for advice.

How can the priest explain the teachings of the Church while also appreciating the couple’s difficulty and showing pastoral care?*

Please, let this not turn into a discussion, I just want some perspectives and advice. Thanks.

I have friends who are practicing Catholics, they never miss a Sunday at church. When they discovered that she is infertile they went to their priest and asked if they could morally seek out IVF. He told them only if no embyos are destroyed in the process and none are frozen. they followed that advice. The IVF was successful for them. I’ve shared this story here before and have been told that the Priest was out of line and should get in trouble with the Bishop.

 

[Joe_5859]

I lean toward the side of not mentioning adoption, at least not right away.

I have never struggled with infertility or subfertility, but from what I understand there is a grieving component that comes before a couple can accept the idea that they might never have children of their own. Even with the joys of adoption, that grief is still there. Also, not all infertile couples are called to adopt. Sometimes, it seems like adoption is suggested almost flippantly, “Oh well, you’re broken, do this instead,” when that’s not how it works.

(I’m not saying you’re saying this, but I know people experience this.)

It might be useful for a priest or spiritual director to attempt to figure out WHY IVF has the appeal it does to the couple. Do they even know that IVF is forbidden by the Church? Do they understand why? Are they so upset that they are willing to throw out Church teaching? What do they know of Naprotechnology or even NFP? Even very devout Catholics can experience tremendous temptation to disregard this teaching. Colleen Carroll Campbell mentions it in her book My Sisters the Saints.

My understanding is that accepting infertility is a very different thing from being called to adopt, and the former has to come first for the latter to work. But I’ll be the first to admit I don’t have personal experience with that, it’s just what I’ve heard from others.

Those are some good points. If a priest does bring up adoption, it might be better left for future conversations rather than the initial one. I like how you distinguish between two separate “happenings” of both grief for the loss of fertility and then openness to adoption. Those two things likely will not happen simultaneously and the priest would primarily be addressing the former.

Hoosier Daddy’s question about what kind of hope is a good one. A priest would need to be very careful about offering false hope that all the couple has to do is x, y, and z and their fertility problems will be no big deal. Truly, our hope is in Christ. And that doesn’t mean that life will be easy or go exactly as we planned. But it does mean we can always be joyful and rely on the Lord.

 

[thewanderer]

Honestly, it seems to me it would be important to discuss how the cross connects to our life of faith. So to tell them what the Church teaching on IVF is (ie, it is immoral), to sympathize with them, and to help them find a way through this difficult time by realizing that this is the cross Christ is asking them to bear at the moment. Help them to understand how important crosses are for our spiritual growth, how it is central to our faith that we die with Christ if we hope to be resurrected with Him in the end. And finally, end on a reflection such as this:

You said to me: Father, I am having a very rough time.

In answer, I whispered in your ear: Take upon your shoulders a small part of that cross, just a tiny part. And if you can’t even manage that then… leave it entirely on the strong shoulders of Christ. And from this moment on repeat with me: “My Lord and my God: into your hands I abandon the past and the present and the future, what is small and what is great, what amounts to little and what amounts to a lot, things temporal and things eternal”
Then, don’t worry any more.