Pastoral Associate 'Exceptions' To Give Homilies

  • Thread starter Thread starter Macd144
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Macd144

Guest
Hi. I have posted about a similar topic in the past, but i just noticed the same issue come up in a parish in my diocese. The text below is from the parish bulletin and I have replaced the name of the people with 'Anonymous’ and the name of parish with 'Anonymous’.

Sister ‘Anonymous’ has received permission from the Diocese of ‘Anonymous’ to participate in the homily at ‘Anonymous’. Sister ‘Anonymous’ did this while Father ‘Anonymous’ and Father ‘Anonymous’ were here, and will resume next weekend. Her years of faith filled living, theological study and experience in ministry will all contribute to her message.

I am still addressing this at my parish, although it involves a Pastoral Associate and not a Sister. If there are ‘execptions’ that can be made, are they different for a religous vs. a lay person such as a Pastoral Associate?

Thanks,

Mac
 
Macd144 said:
Hi. I have posted about a similar topic in the past, but i just noticed the same issue come up in a parish in my diocese. The text below is from the parish bulletin and I have replaced the name of the people with 'Anonymous’ and the name of parish with 'Anonymous’.

Sister ‘Anonymous’ has received permission from the Diocese of ‘Anonymous’ to participate in the homily at ‘Anonymous’. Sister ‘Anonymous’ did this while Father ‘Anonymous’ and Father ‘Anonymous’ were here, and will resume next weekend. Her years of faith filled living, theological study and experience in ministry will all contribute to her message.

I am still addressing this at my parish, although it involves a Pastoral Associate and not a Sister. If there are ‘execptions’ that can be made, are they different for a religous vs. a lay person such as a Pastoral Associate?

Thanks,

Mac
Click to expand...
It is my understanding that **no one **besides an ordained clergyman (bishop, priest or deacon) may give a homily.

If others are to speak on an extraordinary occasion (fund-raiser, etc.), the priest or deacon is to give a homily first, and then the other person may speak.

I would report this to your bishop, but I’m not sure that would help, having mapped where you live. You can try anyway.

God Bless
 
Macd144 said:
Hi. I have posted about a similar topic in the past, but i just noticed the same issue come up in a parish in my diocese. The text below is from the parish bulletin and I have replaced the name of the people with 'Anonymous’ and the name of parish with 'Anonymous’.

Sister ‘Anonymous’ has received permission from the Diocese of ‘Anonymous’ to participate in the homily at ‘Anonymous’. Sister ‘Anonymous’ did this while Father ‘Anonymous’ and Father ‘Anonymous’ were here, and will resume next weekend. Her years of faith filled living, theological study and experience in ministry will all contribute to her message.

I am still addressing this at my parish, although it involves a Pastoral Associate and not a Sister. If there are ‘execptions’ that can be made, are they different for a religous vs. a lay person such as a Pastoral Associate?

Thanks,

Mac
Click to expand...
No exceptions.

I suppose “participate” versus “give” may be the wiggle room necessary to give the homily. That said I VERY appreciative when an abuse like that is telegraphed in our bulletin.

I just attend Mass somewhere else the following week…
 
Macd144 said:
Hi. I have posted about a similar topic in the past, but i just noticed the same issue come up in a parish in my diocese. The text below is from the parish bulletin and I have replaced the name of the people with 'Anonymous’ and the name of parish with 'Anonymous’.

Sister ‘Anonymous’ has received permission from the Diocese of ‘Anonymous’ to participate in the homily at ‘Anonymous’. Sister ‘Anonymous’ did this while Father ‘Anonymous’ and Father ‘Anonymous’ were here, and will resume next weekend. Her years of faith filled living, theological study and experience in ministry will all contribute to her message.

I am still addressing this at my parish, although it involves a Pastoral Associate and not a Sister. If there are ‘execptions’ that can be made, are they different for a religous vs. a lay person such as a Pastoral Associate?

Thanks,

Mac
Click to expand...
She would be welcome to express her “message” at the end of Mass after the final Blessing.
 
She could deliver a homily if the ordained ministers present were not fluent enough to do it intelligibly. My understanding, though, is that this is to be, whenever possible, a translation of a homily written by someone present who would be permitted by canon law to give it himself, were he fluent enough to do so. Unless neither she nor anyone else present could understand a language in which he is capable of writing a homily, or not well enough to translate for him, the homily for the Mass is to be his.

In other words, if an English-speaking priest goes to a foreign country, and only knows how to transliterate the words of the Mass, but not how to speak the language, and there is no other ordained minister present to deliver a homily, then (and only then) may one of the laypersons present deliver a homily of his or her own. This would be a very undesirable situation, since the priest would have no idea what was being preached, but it is within the realm of imagination. But that is my understanding of the rule.

PS There is nothing in canon law that I am aware of, though, that would keep a priest from even heavily consulting a layperson about what he intends to say. As far as I know, a layperson could even write a homily that an ordained person could later elect to deliver at Mass, as long as the decision of what to say was entirely up to the discernment of the ordained minister.
Is that correct?
 
EasterJoy said:
She could deliver a homily if the ordained ministers present were not fluent enough to do it intelligibly. My understanding, though, is that this is to be, whenever possible, a translation of a homily written by someone present who would be permitted by canon law to give it himself, were he fluent enough to do so. Unless neither she nor anyone else present could understand a language in which he is capable of writing a homily, or not well enough to translate for him, the homily for the Mass is to be his.

In other words, if an English-speaking priest goes to a foreign country, and only knows how to transliterate the words of the Mass, but not how to speak the language, and there is no other ordained minister present to deliver a homily, then (and only then) may one of the laypersons present deliver a homily of his or her own. This would be a very undesirable situation, since the priest would have no idea what was being preached, but it is within the realm of imagination. But that is my understanding of the rule.

PS There is nothing in canon law that I am aware of, though, that would keep a priest from even heavily consulting a layperson about what he intends to say. As far as I know, a layperson could even write a homily that an ordained person could later elect to deliver at Mass, as long as the decision of what to say was entirely up to the discernment of the ordained minister.
Is that correct?
Click to expand...
In the case of the priest not speaking the language, I believe he would still need to deliver the homily (in whatever language) and a lay person could read a translation. Much like in a Mass for the deaf, a layperson translates into sign-language.

I don’t believe a layperson can ever deliver a homily of their own licitly. In the rare case where the priest can not be understood and no translation is possible, the priest should either omit the homily or deliver it in his own language.

Here’s the regulation from Redemptionis Sacramentum.
[64.] The homily, which is given in the course of the celebration of Holy Mass and is a part of the Liturgy itself,[142] “should ordinarily be given by the Priest celebrant himself. He may entrust it to a concelebrating Priest or occasionally, according to circumstances, to a Deacon, but never to a layperson.[143] In particular cases and for a just cause, the homily may even be given by a Bishop or a Priest who is present at the celebration but cannot concelebrate”.[144]
Click to expand...
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html#Chapter%20III

"never a layperson" seems pretty definitive.

God Bless
 
bilop said:
In the case of the priest not speaking the language, I believe he would still need to deliver the homily (in whatever language) and a lay person could read a translation. Much like in a Mass for the deaf, a layperson translates into sign-language.

I don’t believe a layperson can ever deliver a homily of their own licitly. In the rare case where the priest can not be understood and no translation is possible, the priest should either omit the homily or deliver it in his own language.

Here’s the regulation from Redemptionis Sacramentum.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html#Chapter%20III

"never a layperson" seems pretty definitive.

God Bless
Click to expand...
Thank you!

And, after all, a layperson can preach during the rest of the day. This is a rather large and un-used time block.
 
EasterJoy said:
Thank you!

And, after all, a layperson can preach during the rest of the day. This is a rather large and un-used time block.
Click to expand...
Correct. You could also have the layperson speak immediately before Mass, or before or after the final blessing.

I have also seen the priest give a short homily, and then invite another speaker. This is not optimal, but when the person is there for fundraising purposes, I can see why they need to speak before the collections.

Still, the priest or deacon needs to deliver some kind of homily, even if it is short.

God Bless
 
Note, too, that “sacred ministers” applies to the ordained, not to consecrated or religious lay (ie. nuns, monks, religious sisters, or religious brothers).
 
Windmill said:
Note, too, that “sacred ministers” applies to the ordained, not to consecrated or religious lay (ie. nuns, monks, religious sisters, or religious brothers).
Click to expand...
Great point! Only bishop, priest or deacon.

God Bless
 
I have seen this happen once. I had a feeling it was going to happen, but waited until the person got up to speak. As soon as that happened, I got up and walked out. Since it was a small church (it only seats about 300), everyone saw it but I did not care. That was strike 2 for the parish. The third strike happened a couple months later at the beginning of Advent and I withdrew from the parish at that time.
 
EasterJoy said:
She could deliver a homily if the ordained ministers present were not fluent enough to do it intelligibly.
Click to expand...
Not from what I’ve seen. The priest would give the homily in his native language and then a layperson would be allowed to translate into the local language. This happened with a mission priest I saw once.
PS There is nothing in canon law that I am aware of, though, that would keep a priest from even heavily consulting a layperson about what he intends to say. As far as I know, a layperson could even write a homily that an ordained person could later elect to deliver at Mass, as long as the decision of what to say was entirely up to the discernment of the ordained minister.
Is that correct?
Click to expand...
Yes, I think so. RS only says that the homily must be given by the ordained unless there’s something in Canon Law I’m not remembering
 
Karl_M said:
Not from what I’ve seen. The priest would give the homily in his native language and then a layperson would be allowed to translate into the local language. This happened with a mission priest I saw once…

Yes, I think so. RS only says that the homily must be given by the ordained unless there’s something in Canon Law I’m not remembering
Click to expand...
Thank you! That makes sense to me, anyway.
 
in my neck of the woods a pastoral associate IS a priest by definition, and no non-ordained person may be given that title so I am a bit out of the discussion.
 
puzzleannie said:
in my neck of the woods a pastoral associate IS a priest by definition, and no non-ordained person may be given that title so I am a bit out of the discussion.
Click to expand...
There must be a lot more priests in your woods! 🙂
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top