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Denho
Guest
It may have been that Synod, but like now, we were incredibly slow in the actual implementation of this and so it was not unheard of to to see infant communion in the 1700’s and even later.
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malphono
Guest
At least until the time of the Black Council in 1736.
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malphono
Guest
That’s true but only since the restored Book of Sacraments in 1942, and even then it was an uphill fight with Rome.
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Peter_J
Guest
One might hope that, in time, Maronite “First Communion” ceremonies might be renamed (not done away with, mind you) “Solemn Communion” or “Eucharistic Awareness” – as such ceremonies were called in Melkite parishes, until recently when they were abolished – reflecting the ability of parents to choose whether their child such receive prior to that ceremony.
Of course, “in time” has a wide range of meanings.
Of course, “in time” has a wide range of meanings.
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Rafkqa
Guest
Well when it comes to infant communion now - it is no longer a fight with Rome that is preventing it…
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MorEphrem
Guest
That is the saddest of the truths.
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malphono
Guest
Yes, I know. See post #20.
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Peter_J
Guest
Indeed, I think anyone who knows you knows.
But on a side note, could it be counter-productive to talk about “infant communion”? Seems like that might turn people off – I mean as opposed to talking about “receiving communion before First Communion” or something more general like that (less of an all-or-nothing question).
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Rafkqa
Guest
I am an ‘all or nothing’ kinda girl and in all honesty it would be difficult to properly explain it with the less…Indeed, I think anyone who knows you knows.
But on a side note, could it be counter-productive to talk about “infant communion”? Seems like that might turn people off – I mean as opposed to talking about “receiving communion before First Communion” or something more general like that (less of an all-or-nothing question).
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shlomo3amrooh
Guest
I find this is the problem with many Eastern Churhes (both Orthodox and Catholic), they are too ethno-centric, and while there is nothing wrong with having a Church based around a community with the same ethnicity, the problem arises when it is favoured in expense of the mission of the Church - namely evangelisation.That letter you linked is primary amongst my concerns. While Latinizations impede our tradition, I don’t consider them detrimental to spiritual health like the withholding of the Body of Christ from children. Any Eastern Church that restores that is in pretty good shape. I also enjoy that the letter hits a major emphasis for restoration: adult catechesis. Sadly, the Maronite Church is little more than a Lebanese club nowadays. My pastor tries to hold bible studies and catechism lessons but adult nor teenager attends because it isn’t a party with dabkeh. I get particularly disgruntled by this “Lebanese club” mentality because I’m not Lebanese and I know many people who are turned off by this pseudo-racial club (they’re really rude about it too - I’ve gotten so many nasty comments about being an invader because I’m Syrian, i.e. where St. Maron is actually from).
However, i find this problem is getting better. For example: the anglo nuns in the Chaldean Church in the USA. and the Non-Ukranian bishop in the USA.
Another problem arsies, and what I am about to say may be offensive, so please my Maronite brethren la takhzoni (as one would say in leventine arabic). There is no such thing as the Lebanese ethnicity. There is a such thing as the Aramean Ethnicity, and if one wants to give it a Christian touch a Syriac Ethncity. Just like there is no such thing as an Iraqi Ethnicity.
The Maronites themselves quite possibly form a sub-ethnicity within the Syriac Ethnicity. Where the mesopotamian Syriacs may have more Assyrian blood in them, the Maronite Ethnicity may have slightly more of a Phonecian. Either way the differences are probably miniscule.
These issues: having a Church which excludes all who the majority does not see as “Maronite” or “Lebanese”. As well as a wrong definition of the term “Maronite” is an issue that must be resolves in the Maronite Church.
The same story can be said about the Chaldean Church and certain extremists within it who claim that the Chaldeans are different than the Assyrians.
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MorEphrem
Guest
:clapping:
The same problem that creates this Lebanese “ethnicity” is the same that destroys our Church: the terrible historical revisionism that Christian “Arabs” in greater Syria have lovingly embraced.
So why does this link back to the thread topic? Because it illuminates that a poor catechesis in both history and liturgy is a root to both liturgical and social disfunction of our Churches. The issue is properly educating people. It seems self-perpetuating that because many of the adults think the Church is a culture club they have no interest in going to catechism lessons.
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malphono
Guest
Indeed, and it’s interesting to note that the Arameans, as a group, never bought into Saddam’s attempts at arabization. That’s one tactic the Assad dynasty didn’t try in Syria, although the seeds of it were planted with the so-called “Arab revival” starting in the second-half of the 19th Century. That’s when a portion of Maronites adopted that absurd philosophy. Most unfortunately, their scions are now in control, and revisionism is rampant even in the secular realm.
This is true but, as I’ve said in prior posts, one has to be very careful not to attempt to divorce the Church from its true ethno-cultural roots. Doing that will only serve to further dilute praxis and is a recipe for total disaster.
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Devoted_to_Jude
Guest
When you say “Safro were offered the way it should be” did you mean simply offered before the liturgy or is there a special way the Safro is suppose to be done?
We do Safro before the liturgy at my church.
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Devoted_to_Jude
Guest
On what grounds does the Roman church believe its proper to intervene in the affairs of another church in this way? It certainly has nothing to legitimately do with the primacy of Peter. Still everyone has a rationalization for their bad behavior and I am just curious if you know what the Roman excuse was for this affront upon the apostolic tradition… With friends like this we certainly have no need for enemies.
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Augustine
Guest
The way which Rome has dealt with the Eastern Catholic Churches, Churches of equal standing with the Latin Church, is the kind of abuse and disrespect of papal primacy, rooted in prejudice and corporate vanity, that keeps the Orthodox Churches at a distance.
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Casilda
Guest
This thread is 3 years old.
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