Patents don't want child baptized(ok to baptize in secret?)

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PetersKeys

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For parents who are against christianity and don’t want their children baptized. It is ok for a layperson to baptize the child in secret? I heard about someone who did this in RCIA because she thought she was helping the child.
 
Unless the child is in eminent danger of death, then no, it is not OK to baptize against the wishes of the parent.
 
SMHW said:
Unless the child is in eminent danger of death, then no, it is not OK to baptize against the wishes of the parent.
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We should also add that only a Deacon, Priest or Bishop can baptize a person in non-extraordinary circumstances.
 
Cristiano said:
We should also add that only a Deacon, Priest or Bishop can baptize a person in non-extraordinary circumstances.
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Correction, only these people can LICITLY baptize in that situation. But even an ILLICIT baptism is valid if the person intended to baptize and used the correct form and matter.
 
Phemie said:
Correction, only these people can LICITLY baptize in that situation. But even an ILLICIT baptism is valid if the person intended to baptize and used the correct form and matter.
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I stand corrected. 😊
 
PetersKeys said:
For parents who are against christianity and don’t want their children baptized. It is ok for a layperson to baptize the child in secret? I heard about someone who did this in RCIA because she thought she was helping the child.
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This is part of CAF that I keep away from, since normally it has nothing to do with me, but it this thread appeared on the main forum page.

This is more than a little frightening - as a Jew it has echoes the Church’s old policies, the most famous example of which was the notorious “Montara Affair”.

To me, it’s would be merely a minor physical assault on the child but it’s more than a little scary to consider whether the person who committed the assault might end up stalking the child because it’s magically become ‘Christian’ in their eyes.
 
Kaninchen said:
This is part of CAF that I keep away from, since normally it has nothing to do with me, but it this thread appeared on the main forum page.

This is more than a little frightening - as a Jew it has echoes the Church’s old policies, the most famous example of which was the notorious “Montara Affair”.

To me, it’s would be merely a minor physical assault on the child but it’s more than a little scary to consider whether the person who committed the assault might end up stalking the child because it’s magically become ‘Christian’ in their eyes.
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Well it was a woman in RCIA class who said she did this. And she baptized the baby in secret.The Director said the baby is validly baptized now. The woman thought she was doing the right thing(if the baby died unbaptized)

what is the montara affair? I googled it and didnt find anything
 
This also came up in our RCIA class this past year. A grandmother “baptised” her grandchild because the parents didn’t believe.

The priest said that it is very wrong to do it, although if done correctly, than it is still a valid baptism.
 
The whole justification of infant baptism is that they are carried to the Holy Font on the authority of their parents’ faith and intention to raise the children as Christians.
 
Kaninchen said:
This is part of CAF that I keep away from, since normally it has nothing to do with me, but it this thread appeared on the main forum page.

This is more than a little frightening - as a Jew it has echoes the Church’s old policies, the most famous example of which was the notorious “Montara Affair”.

To me, it’s would be merely a minor physical assault on the child but it’s more than a little scary to consider whether the person who committed the assault might end up stalking the child because it’s magically become ‘Christian’ in their eyes.
Click to expand...
PetersKeys said:
Well it was a woman in RCIA class who said she did this. And she baptized the baby in secret.The Director said the baby is validly baptized now. The woman thought she was doing the right thing(if the baby died unbaptized)

what is the montara affair? I googled it and didnt find anything
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It is the Mortara (not Montara) case.
 
PetersKeys said:
For parents who are against christianity and don’t want their children baptized. It is ok for a layperson to baptize the child in secret? I heard about someone who did this in RCIA because she thought she was helping the child.
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no the child may not be baptized without the parent’s permission, because the child may not be baptized unless there is assurance he will be raised Catholic. Think about it. by baptizing the child you are binding him to all the beliefs, practices and laws of the Church, while he will not even be instructed on what they are as he grows up. Trust in God’s mercy to take care of the child, pray for the parents and work on their conversion.
 
PetersKeys said:
For parents who are against christianity and don’t want their children baptized. It is ok for a layperson to baptize the child in secret? I heard about someone who did this in RCIA because she thought she was helping the child.
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Its funny sometimes that we dont think that God is around and act like he not in charge.Its not the baby fault.Its the parents they have to stand befor God and give acount of there lifes and actions.we need to pray for the parents .Do you think that Gods going to give this baby a hard time?
 
Kaninchen said:
This is more than a little frightening - as a Jew it has echoes the Church’s old policies, the most famous example of which was the notorious “Montara Affair”.
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The Mortara child was in danger of death, at least in the eyes of the housekeeper who baptized him. The kind of emergency baptism in Mortara is still sanctioned to this very day.

Of course, removal of Mortara from his home because of the baptism couldn’t happen today, as the civil laws don’t exist in Italy or the US for that matter.

The example in the OP isn’t the same as Mortara.
 
Edgardo Mortara seems like he was very content to be a Catholic priest. Grace is beautiful.
 
Kielbasi said:
The Mortara child was in danger of death, at least in the eyes of the housekeeper who baptized him. The kind of emergency baptism in Mortara is still sanctioned to this very day.
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First of all, apologies to everybody who fell foul of my typo.

It would be interesting to see whether a prosecution for kidnapping/assault would succeed where such a baptism is undertaken.
Of course, removal of Mortara from his home because of the baptism couldn’t happen today, as the civil laws don’t exist in Italy or the US for that matter.
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Believe it or not, here on CAF, where the issue has been raised before, I’ve found that there are people who believe that it should happen today because they see the ‘Christian’ child’s soul being in peril.
The example in the OP isn’t the same as Mortara.
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Perhaps only because such kidnappings can only succeed where one ‘owns’ the jurisdiction.
 
PetersKeys said:
For parents who are against christianity and don’t want their children baptized. It is ok for a layperson to baptize the child in secret? I heard about someone who did this in RCIA because she thought she was helping the child.
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No, it is not permitted for a layperson or in fact even clergy to Baptize an infant against the parents wishes except in grave danger of death. Then the person even cannot do so in “secret”. Canon Law requires them to notify the local parish so that the Baptism can be recorded in the parish Baptismal register and the additional Rites of Baptism can be supplied if the child survives and preparations made to raise the child in the Catholic faith and practice.
 
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