Patents don't want child baptized(ok to baptize in secret?)

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ALLGIRLS said:
Ok, I know the original question was about infants, but what about a child past the age of reason (say a 10 year old) who wants to be baptized, but his parents won’t allow it (say they’re atheists, for example)? Can he approach a priest and ask for instruction and baptism against his parents’ wishes? What does the Church teach about cases like that?

In Christ,

Ellen
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Yes he can but generally he would not be able to be Baptized in most states until he is 16, some 18.
 
Kaninchen said:
Well, I did give an example of Christian children being kidnapped, didn’t I?

Quite why he chose ‘uproar’ as a defense, I don’t know. It sort of works as a diversion, I guess.
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yes you gave a good example all points, but he could have given a few himself. we could play the blame game back and forth all day long. in fact given the reaction I would have to say that is where he thought this was going. but you made the point so we don’t need to go there.
 
kristie_m said:
Really? Who mandates it? I wouldn’t think that the government could touch something like this.
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its a church thing they tend to respect the right of the parent to raise the child as they see fit. free will and all that. so you have to wait till he is no longer a minor. true he can how shall we say…prepare for the grand slam he will receive later, but generally if the parents don’t agree with him it is a no go till he is older out of respect for them.
 
kristie_m said:
well, regardless of what has happened in the past, if someone decided to do this to my kid I’d be pretty mad. I know of someone, in fact, that did this behind the mother’s back and I’m still pretty upset about it. Not that I don’t want to see the kids baptised, mind you, but because if the child isn’t old enough to decide for himself, and he’s not in grave danger of dying, then it is the PARENTS’ decision whether or not to baptise and raise that child in their chosen faith.

I would say that the best thing we can do for them is pray pray pray that they come to understand the importance of baptism and seek it for their children.
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I agree. It is also really unfair to the child, in a sense. I mean, this is a human being with rights, I think that should be respected. Certainly the rights of the parents need to be respected!!
But then, I think, suppose I saw a baby/small child in danger of death, what would I do? And you know, if I had all my wits about me, I would baptize the wee one, and let the chips fall where they may…😦 I just couldn’t live with myself, to:crying: let a little baby die in front of me, & not do that for the yean…
 
Zooey said:
I agree. It is also really unfair to the child, in a sense. I mean, this is a human being with rights, I think that should be respected. Certainly the rights of the parents need to be respected!!
But then, I think, suppose I saw a baby/small child in danger of death, what would I do? And you know, if I had all my wits about me, I would baptize the wee one, and let the chips fall where they may…😦 I just couldn’t live with myself, to:crying: let a little baby die in front of me, & not do that for the yean…
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I suppose it’s one of those things where there can never be any agreement or compromise, perhaps it would take prosecutions for assault or legal action on the part of aggrieved parents to make Christians take notice.

Personally, as I said, I’d see it as a minor assault on the child - on the other hand I do think that Christians really should be aware of just how offensive a behavior it is to non-Christians.

Not being Christian does not make one anti-Christian but it can make one anti-‘Christian behavior’.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALLGIRLS forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
*Ok, I know the original question was about infants, but what about a child past the age of reason (say a 10 year old) who wants to be baptized, but his parents won’t allow it (say they’re atheists, for example)? Can he approach a priest and ask for instruction and baptism against his parents’ wishes? What does the Church teach about cases like that?

In Christ,

Ellen*

Yes he can but generally he would not be able to be Baptized in most states until he is 16, some 18.

This child would be covered under “baptism by desire”.
 
kristie_m said:
Really? Who mandates it? I wouldn’t think that the government could touch something like this.
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No, but a civil law suit could result. The Church would not wish to get involved in a civil suit over a Baptism. They would however possibly celebrate a Rite of Acceptance in a short form. To officially allow him/her into the Order of Catechumens. That way Baptism of Desire would apply if something would happen and a full Christian Funeral could be celebrated if the parents allowed.
 
Zooey said:
I agree. It is also really unfair to the child, in a sense. I mean, this is a human being with rights, I think that should be respected. Certainly the rights of the parents need to be respected!!
But then, I think, suppose I saw a baby/small child in danger of death, what would I do? And you know, if I had all my wits about me, I would baptize the wee one, and let the chips fall where they may…😦 I just couldn’t live with myself, to:crying: let a little baby die in front of me, & not do that for the yean…
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Canon Law says that we are to Baptize an infant/child in immediate danger of death even without the parents permission.
 
Its says in the Canon that a layperson can baptize in the emergency of death.

But in a sense aren’t we all in a state of emergency of death? Anyone could die at any time. I mean the baby could die of a seizure or heart attack and seem perfectly healthy beforehand.
 
Kaninchen said:
This is part of CAF that I keep away from, since normally it has nothing to do with me, but it this thread appeared on the main forum page.

This is more than a little frightening - as a Jew it has echoes the Church’s old policies, the most famous example of which was the notorious “Montara Affair”.

To me, it’s would be merely a minor physical assault on the child but it’s more than a little scary to consider whether the person who committed the assault might end up stalking the child because it’s magically become ‘Christian’ in their eyes.
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That’s extremely bigoted talk.
 
Kaninchen said:
You must live a very sheltered life.
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And you clearly live a very bigoted one. To equate the graces of baptism to magic on a Catholic Christian website paints a very grim picture of who you are – no matter what your beliefs or likely lack thereof.

If Fr. Mortara’s mother held the same view you do and made the same sort of callous comments to others then it’s no wonder he choose to remain a Catholic.
 
Spiller said:
And you clearly live a very bigoted one. To equate the graces of baptism to magic on a Catholic Christian website paints a very grim picture of who you are – no matter what your beliefs or likely lack thereof.
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Oh dear.
If Fr. Mortara’s mother held the same view you do and made the same sort of callous comments to others then it’s no wonder he choose to remain a Catholic.
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So, you think that kidnapping Christian children to turn them into an elite core of Muslim warriors was a good thing because they enjoyed their life?

Right.
 
PetersKeys said:
Oh interesting. I find it interesting that Montara remained a Catholic the rest of his life.
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Just as one might find it interesting that all those many Christian children kidnapped, indoctrinated and turned into elite Muslim troops by the Ottoman Turks remained Muslims for the rest of their lives.
 
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