Paternity Tests and the Catholic Church

[Oh_Charlotte]

Here is an horrific example of paternity Fraud perpetrated by a woman:
[youtube…blah blah…](https://www.youtube…blah blah…)

Here is an example of how Men are treated by the legal system and how women use the system to attack men via the inequalities and 'Anti - Male bias of the legal system:
[youtube…blah blah…](https://www.youtube…blah blah…)

And here is yet more abuse: [youtube.blah blah.](https://www.youtube.blah blah.)
Note as well! Essentially men go to Debtors Prison when they loose their job and can not make Child support for kids that he did not sire! :bigyikes:

See here as well! [htavoiceformen…women-back-lies…blah blah…](htavoiceformen…women-back-lies…blah blah…) for a TV program of non Catholic women’s behavior in regard to Paternity Fraud.

Need I say more? **Men **are being **discriminated **against. By Feminists. By the Legal system. It is just. That. Simple.

Nimsovik, are ALL of your posts about how men are defrauded against by women? Because that’s all I have seen from you. I have not ever seen you make a case for the women who get defrauded by men.

Instead it seems to me that you have a singular, one-sided agenda to promote here, intended to detract CAF members from this forum and from this forum’s purpose to your own agenda. And you even have numerous links in most (all?) of your posts to divert forum members from their purpose here to yours. As if you are using CAF to recruit for your cause. That’s how it appears to me.

Am I right about this, Nimzovik? Because if I am right, it seems to me that this is a misuse of this forum.

 

[Oh_Charlotte]

I wouldn’t call her a Catholic Apologist. She’s more of a Catholic Journalist or a journalist who’s Catholic.

This is the truth.

“silentfactor80”, do you know what a Catholic apologist is?? Why did you call writer this a Catholic Apologist?? She is NOT…

 

[silentfactor80]

This is the truth.

“silentfactor80”, do you know what a Catholic apologist is?? Why did you call writer this a Catholic Apologist?? She is NOT…

I think it may have been a bad choice of words on my part. I read a blog about this article where they called her a Catholic Apologist. I should have been a bit more careful about that. She does claim to have Catholic roots but her words don’t seem very Catholic to me. That is why I asked.

Also, with regards to your comment about Nimzovik’s posts, I can understand your frustration with him but put yourself in a guys shoes. We keep hearing about this “war on women” and how women have it so bad yet women have many organizations and protections that men don’t. Women have places to vent and go but men are pretty much silenced to the internet. It is frustrating as a man to hear women charge us with “oppression” on nearly a daily basis yet it us who are expected to put up and shut up. Men (especially faithful Catholic men) are treated like and viewed as animals by feminists. Denying men respect as human beings is bound to make some explode and you can’t blame them. If it was the other way around and men were trashing women like feminists do to men would you be as dismissive?

Feminism is relevant on this forum because the Catholic Church is under attack from it. Look at the Leadership Council of Women Religious (LCWR) who was cited by the Vatican for “radical feminism.” Understanding complex emotion is one of the things I admire about women but many women are easily swayed by emotion. The LCWR is a perfect example this. They don’t care about gay marriage or abortion because the people in favor of them are experts at using emotion to manipulate and corner the argument.

Lastly, men certainly fraud women but we have systems in place to deal with that fraud (i.e. alimony, child support, easy accusation of rape, support groups, etc). Men have none of that! Read Christina Hoff Sommers “The War Against Boys” and you will see how we coddle girls and trash boys.

 

[Oh_Charlotte]

I think it may have been a bad choice of words on my part. … She does claim to have Catholic roots but her words don’t seem very Catholic to me. .

Yes, her words don’t seem Catholic.

Men (especially faithful Catholic men) are treated like and viewed as animals by feminists. Denying men respect as human beings is bound to make some explode and you can’t blame them. If it was the other way around and men were trashing women like feminists do to men would you be as dismissive?

I am not so much frustrated with Nimzovik, its just that pushing his issue is an inappropriate use of this forum. He should have a blog, and he can put these links in his blog and make his whole case in his blog, and refer briefly to his blog in his signature, or have it so you can find it when you click on his name here. Its interesting to hear what issues matter to people, but he advertises his issue relentlessly. Its like getting spammed. Its like those pop-up, in-your-face ads that take up your whole screen.

Men (especially faithful Catholic men) are treated like and viewed as animals by feminists. Denying men respect as human beings is bound to make some explode and you can’t blame them. If it was the other way around and men were trashing women like feminists do to men would you be as dismissive?

This makes no sense. No one on this forum is doing that. I have done a lot of reading here and I do not hear of men viewed as animals here, or being denied respect, or trashing men. If so, then respond as Nimzovik does, but he is responding to no one saying this. Since no one said it, it should be dismissed. Otherwise, his rants sound just like a war on women. Which has no place here at CAF.

Feminism is relevant on this forum because the Catholic Church is under attack from it. Look at the Leadership Council of Women Religious (LCWR) who was cited by the Vatican for “radical feminism.”

Yes, radical feminism is undermining the Church. It is another manifestation of the work of the evil one, IMO. So you are right on this.

Understanding complex emotion is one of the things I admire about women but many women are easily swayed by emotion.

That’s very often most true! Men too, but women more often. And those with the evil one’s agenda use this.

The LCWR is a perfect example this. They don’t care about gay marriage or abortion because the people in favor of them are experts at using emotion to manipulate and corner the argument.

true and sad

Lastly, men certainly fraud women but we have systems in place to deal with that fraud (i.e. alimony, child support, easy accusation of rape, support groups, etc). Men have none of that! Read Christina Hoff Sommers “The War Against Boys” and you will see how we coddle girls and trash boys.

Just read Amzaon reviews for that and it looks like an excellent informative book, reflecting views I have on education. I remember when I was teaching being told of studies that complain teachers pay too much attention to the boys. Well, the girls are listening; the boys need attention so they can get pulled into it! (I am talking about elementary age here; you are trying to teach writing for example, and it takes more teacher attention aimed at the boys to get them as involved as the girls. At recess the boys would go wild playing basketball and the girls would sit in a huddle in the corner of the gym writing in journals…)

But then, I have my own education ideas (adopted, not original to me): the boys should run and play til they are 12 and* then *begin book learning. They will quickly catch up and excel their peers, who by 12 are burned out on school when they are at the perfect age for motivated integrated learning. This is a tried and true method but not how we do things in public education. Too bad for boys, who suffer the most…)

But as to systems in place for dealing with fraud, I don’t know. I ahve been through fraud and mistreatment by my ex and there were no systems to fix things for me. I am thankful for court-ordered support but not that thankful. When you add it up its not equal to what I lost fighting for it in court and against lies. The only winners were the lawyers. I do hear personally of cases where the husbands got alimony and child support even though they were the ones who had an affair, but the wife had the job, and he was a slacker, so he collected. Another friend put her husband through Bachelors, Master, Doctorate then he became a trapeze artist (and had affairs, and she found out had been doing this while she supported him through school degrees) so at divorce she got no alimony or child support because any income he made was hidden; he had “nothing” so now she raises her kids with no help on her moderate salary, which is a poor one because of how she must stretch it, and she lives on extreme thrift. And there is a cap on how much alimony and child support you can get, and I don’t know any well-off divorced women. Divorce costs everyone, the kids the most but the couple always lives each on much less than half of what they had. That’s my own experience. There are frauds of both sexes though.

 

[Nimzovik]

Nimsovik, are 1) ALL of your posts about how men are defrauded against by women? Because that’s all I have seen from you.2) I have not ever seen you make a case for the women who get defrauded by men.

Instead it seems to me that you have a singular, one-sided agenda to promote here, intended to **3)detract CAF members from this forum and from this forum’s purpose to your own agenda. And you even have numerous links in most (all?) of your posts to divert forum members from their purpose here to yours. As if you are using CAF to 4)**recruit for your cause. That’s how it appears to me.

Am I right about this, Nimzovik? Because if I am right, it seems to me that this is a 5) misuse of this forum.

Bolding Mine. Numerals Mine:

Oh yessss…???

Point 1) Evidently you have not been paying attention. I do indeed discuss a plethora of subjects. Pro - female statements included.

Point 2) In terms of the Original Poster’s comment, especially "… She argues that women should have the power to choose who fathers their child and that men do not have a right to know if a child is biologically theirs. That sounds incredible feminist to me and sick. " it would hijack the thread if I were to at this juncture present a case where a woman was defrauded by a man. The thread topic is about “** … men** do not have a right to know if a child is biologically theirs.” It is not encumbent upon me to now discuss women’s issues at this point. Sidebar: May I also say that ‘To present issues that call for equality for men,** too**, does **not **equate to being anti - woman.’

Point 3) If you have an issue with my applied use of the Forum, may I suggest you take it up with the administrators? To publicly claim in the Forum that in my posts I (3) “detract” and (4) “recruit” and** (5)** “misuse” the forum, I simply must assert that I find your statements to be not only a mischaracterization, but also rather mildly insulting. Also, may I say it is beyond your purview to function as a moderator?

To present issues, Men’s issues inclusive, within the parameters of the (a) thread is an acceptable use of a Forum. Forum …b : a public meeting place for open discussion. It is the nature of a forum to present ideas and concepts. Often new ideas, at first, can appear threatening or upsetting of an established paradigm. Thesis, antithesis, then after much debate, synthesis. Nothing unusual here.

What more can I say?

 

[JackieMom]

If I cheated on my husband (I would never), and I got pregnant, I feel confident that I could tell my husband and we would come together to raise the child as our own. We’d probably move away so that the “bio dad” could not intervene. I don’t think that’s unfair AT ALL.

 

[Nimzovik]

Indeed? And this hypothetical man of which you speak… of whom you hypothetically had feelings for, as you hypothetically had an affair with him, if he were to learn of his progeny and wished to be with his child, you would would assert that he is just an ‘intervening’ nuisance? Without any claims to his very own child? Am I restating your perspective accurately?

Would you flee with the child so that the Father could not have access? Would you effect P.A.S ( Parent Alienation Syndrome) to assure the child finds his father repulsive?

See here: youtube.com/watch?v=O4W8yK8E6mo

Would you think that Heaven would approve of your choices?

 

[JackieMom]

Indeed? And this hypothetical man of which you speak… of whom you hypothetically had feelings for, as you hypothetically had an affair with him, if he were to learn of his progeny and wished to be with his child, you would would assert that he is just an ‘intervening’ nuisance? Without any claims to his very own child? Am I restating your perspective accurately?

Would you flee with the child so that the Father could not have access? Would you effect P.A.S ( Parent Alienation Syndrome) to assure the child finds his father repulsive?

See here: youtube.com/watch?v=O4W8yK8E6mo

Would you think that Heaven would approve of your choices?

No, I would carry on with my marriage and do everything in my power to ensure that the information never came to light. I trust that my husband and I could work through the betrayal to maintain an intact family.

And yes, I think God would approve of making a bad situation better by not ripping the family apart by having one child in the family known as the “affair baby.” I am fortunate that I know my husband could and would step up and do whatever was in the best interest of the child, including raising him as his own and never telling a soul. I’d do the same.

 

[Nimzovik]

So… this …deception… This lie that you would leed in terms of not revealing to the child of the existence of the identity of the real Father is your answer?

As like happened in the link, I provided earlier and most likely will happen to you, where the child came to realize on her own, that the dad she was led her to believe was her dad, was not her dad, what would you say to that Child? Would you think that your credibility has been damaged with the child?

When the child is growing up and asks why everyone in the family has a different hair and eye color, what will you say then? More lies?

And when the child wants to meet her real father, would you allow it? Would you still endeavor to prohibit her to see her real dad when she reached 18?

When the real Father demands an explanation from you for your deception, your lie, what will you say to him?

If the real Father decides to endeavor to bankrupt you in civil court for Paternity Fraud and denying him his child, do you feel that would stress your family with legal fees? Do you think it just might ‘rip your family apart?’

There is a fundamental problem with lies. One not only has to live with the lie. One has to also negotiate the ‘Children of the Lie’ so to speak. That is, one has to tell yet more and more lies to hide the original lie.

Interesting.

So.

These lies of which we speak, would you confess them in the Sacrament of Reconciliation? Would one not have to repent first before confession?

 

[Nimzovik]

Here is an interesting link in regard to men being able to sue for Paternity Fraud.

stpaulfamilylawblog.com/2012/06/man-can-sue-for-paternity-fraud-state-supreme-court-says.shtml

Here is another one: wowt.com/home/headlines/Iowa_High_Court_Man_May_Sue_Woman_For_Paternity_Fraud_156414045.html

So one can see that sueing for Paternity Fraud is becoming viable.

Interesting that the courts are starting to see the criminal aspects of Paternity Fraud.

 

[JackieMom]

So… this …deception… This lie that you would leed in terms of not revealing to the child of the existence of the identity of the real Father is your answer?

As like happened in the link, I provided earlier and most likely will happen to you, where the child came to realize on her own, that the dad she was led her to believe was her dad, was not her dad, what would you say to that Child? Would you think that your credibility has been damaged with the child?

When the child is growing up and asks why everyone in the family has a different hair and eye color, what will you say then? More lies?

And when the child wants to meet her real father, would you allow it? Would you still endeavor to prohibit her to see her real dad when she reached 18?

When the real Father demands an explanation from you for your deception, your lie, what will you say to him?

If the real Father decides to endeavor to bankrupt you in civil court for Paternity Fraud and denying him his child, do you feel that would stress your family with legal fees? Do you think it just might ‘rip your family apart?’

There is a fundamental problem with lies. One not only has to live with the lie. One has to also negotiate the ‘Children of the Lie’ so to speak. That is, one has to tell yet more and more lies to hide the original lie.

Interesting.

So.

These lies of which we speak, would you confess them in the Sacrament of Reconciliation? Would one not have to repent first before confession?

Well I’m not going to argue since this is totally hypothetical. Suffice it to say that the father is the one who raises the child, not the one who provided the sperm. If my child ever found out, I hope he’d understand that and agree with the choices made.

My kids all look very different and are from the same dad. My husband and I both have very dark hair and one of our four kids is blond. My husband is Asian and this child is totally white. It’s not suspicious.

Your definition of “real father” is interesting. If two men are sleeping with a woman, one legitimately so as the husband and one doing so under the most appalling amd decietful of circumstances, it is in my mind not necessary to determine who the “real” father is. The father is the one the woman is married to and the one who should raise the child with the mother. This is the risk you take when you sleep with a married lady.

Bankrupt me for paternity fraud? I doubt a man would want to destroy his own family by claiming a child he didn’t raise and entering into years of litigation. Hopefully both participants in the adultery would have repented, committed to do only what was best for the child, and moved the heck on. But, I guess id somehow the information got out, AND my adult child was willing to determine his paternity, and a they could prove I willfully lied, and I lost the case, then that’s the risk I ran by sleeping with someone who wasn’t my husband.

You seem really fired up about this. If a man keeps his penis is his pants until he’s married he doesn’t have anything to worry about : )

 

[silentfactor80]

No, I would carry on with my marriage and do everything in my power to ensure that the information never came to light. I trust that my husband and I could work through the betrayal to maintain an intact family.

And yes, I think God would approve of making a bad situation better by not ripping the family apart by having one child in the family known as the “affair baby.” I am fortunate that I know my husband could and would step up and do whatever was in the best interest of the child, including raising him as his own and never telling a soul. I’d do the same.

So what you are saying is if your husband fathered an “affair baby” you would love the child as your own? I’m pretty sure most women would do no such thing. The difference is women have the choice, men most often don’t.

 

[JackieMom]

So… this …deception… This lie that you would leed in terms of not revealing to the child of the existence of the identity of the real Father is your answer?

As like happened in the link, I provided earlier and most likely will happen to you, where the child came to realize on her own, that the dad she was led her to believe was her dad, was not her dad, what would you say to that Child? Would you think that your credibility has been damaged with the child?

When the child is growing up and asks why everyone in the family has a different hair and eye color, what will you say then? More lies?

And when the child wants to meet her real father, would you allow it? Would you still endeavor to prohibit her to see her real dad when she reached 18?

When the real Father demands an explanation from you for your deception, your lie, what will you say to him?

If the real Father decides to endeavor to bankrupt you in civil court for Paternity Fraud and denying him his child, do you feel that would stress your family with legal fees? Do you think it just might ‘rip your family apart?’

There is a fundamental problem with lies. One not only has to live with the lie. One has to also negotiate the ‘Children of the Lie’ so to speak. That is, one has to tell yet more and more lies to hide the original lie.

Interesting.

So.

These lies of which we speak, would you confess them in the Sacrament of Reconciliation? Would one not have to repent first before confession?

So what you are saying is if your husband fathered an “affair baby” you would love the child as your own? I’m pretty sure most women would do no such thing. The difference is women have the choice, men most often don’t.

Of course I would. How do you punish a child for the sins of his parents. I’d be happy to have my husband’s “affair baby” come live with us as one of our children if that was what was best. Furious with my husband - yes. Furious with the child? Of course not. My grandmother did this very thing when her husband fathered a child during a brief separation. What kind of beastly woman would reject a baby that her husband fathered?

 

[Nimzovik]

Indeed I am ‘fired up about this’ - as I should think everyone should be.

It is fascinating to me how Men’s issues are ignored by today’s Feminists. Men are often referred to as the ‘Ignored Sex.’ It is also fascinating to me that the divorce rate is up past 50%. Marriages do not last when one spouse ignores the other. Hmmmmmmm… And society? When one sex ignores the other? What* then?*
Perhaps the new MGTOW and similar groups will emerge in abundance?

Clearly, the Men’s voices have yet to be heard. Clearly there is going to have to be a major pradigm shift in the Public consciousness.

Well… Hopefully Men’s Rights Groups will be able alter the laws to a more equitable and conscionable degree, one that includes fathers as Fathers.

One that does not denigrate them to mere ‘Seed Donors.’

When push comes to shove I can only hope that you would do the right thing upon further refllection. IMHO, I find that women that actually **hide **men’s children as well, to be in moral peril.

Here is an example from TV of Men’s issues being presented at a speech when he is disrupted by Feminists. verdict.justia.com/2012/10/16/when-your-daddy-is-not-really-your-daddy

It appears we are not* only* ignored - but *suppressed *by Feminists as well!
Hmmmmmmmmmm…

 

[silentfactor80]

Of course I would. How do you punish a child for the sins of his parents. I’d be happy to have my husband’s “affair baby” come live with us as one of our children if that was what was best. Furious with my husband - yes. Furious with the child? Of course not. My grandmother did this very thing when her husband fathered a child during a brief separation. What kind of beastly woman would reject a baby that her husband fathered?

That’s noble of you but you would always have that choice. A man could be completely fooled without ever knowing it. I think the real question is would a woman be human enough to admit she messed up. For many I think the answer is no.

 

[JackieMom]

Indeed I am ‘fired up about this’ - as I should think everyone should be.

It is fascinating to me how Men’s issues are ignored by today’s Feminists. Men are often referred to as the ‘Ignored Sex.’ It is also fascinating to me that the divorce rate is up past 50%. Marriages do not last when one spouse ignores the other. Hmmmmmmm… And society? When one sex ignores the other? What* then?*
Perhaps the new MGTOW and similar groups will emerge in abundance?

Clearly, the Men’s voices have yet to be heard. Clearly there is going to have to be a major pradigm shift in the Public consciousness.

Well… Hopefully Men’s Rights Groups will be able alter the laws to a more equitable and conscionable degree, one that includes fathers as Fathers.

One that does not denigrate them to mere ‘Seed Donors.’

When push comes to shove I can only hope that you would do the right thing upon further refllection. IMHO, I find that women that actually **hide **men’s children as well, to be in moral peril.

Here is an example from TV of Men’s issues being presented at a speech when he is disrupted by Feminists. verdict.justia.com/2012/10/16/when-your-daddy-is-not-really-your-daddy

It appears we are not* only* ignored - but *suppressed *by Feminists as well!
Hmmmmmmmmmm…

Some men are “mere seed.” Maybe the kind that sleep with a married woman. Maybe the kind that would demand partial custody of a baby that could otherwise be born into an intact family and never know the difference, just because he “wants” to see his baby - regardless of how healthy that would be for the child and his family.

I find the term “men’s rights” quite laughable. After thousands of years subjugating women, treating them as property, denying their human rights, prohibiting them from voting and owning land, being allowed to beat them, to rape them without consequence, denying them education and status in society, and enjoying and taking advantage of the freedom and perks that come with being the gender that does not carry and birth and nurse babies - women finally speak up for their equality and demand fair treatment and the so-called “men’s rights groups” pop up. Uh huh.

Sorry, no. I would never sleep with another man so this will never actually happen, but Lord knows if it did I would have zero problem doing whatever I could to make sure that the baby was raised in my family exclusively, by my husband as the father. Literally, zero problem.

I do not see how you do not understand that when adults make grievous mistakes, and a baby results, the interests of that child MUST be preeminent over adults’ desires. Do you honestly think it is best for a child to be known to his brothers and sisters and the rest of society as “the one mom had with some other man?” I do not think you are fully appreciating how devastating it would be to grow up as “that kid” in the family - the one that gets sent away every other weekend and misses holidays and is sometimes missing from dinner while the rest of his siblings are present.

 

[Nimzovik]

Men’s Rights are laughable eh… “Some men are mere seed…” eh?

Well. That is quite revealing. That pretty much tells me what I am dealing with.

That is quite a laundry list of anti male sentiments. Rather a broad generalization of not only history, but men as well -eh?

There are just sooooooo many things wrong with your post I am presently speechless.

 

[silentfactor80]

Some men are “mere seed.” Maybe the kind that sleep with a married woman. Maybe the kind that would demand partial custody of a baby that could otherwise be born into an intact family and never know the difference, just because he “wants” to see his baby - regardless of how healthy that would be for the child and his family.

I find the term “men’s rights” quite laughable. After thousands of years subjugating women, treating them as property, denying their human rights, prohibiting them from voting and owning land, being allowed to beat them, to rape them without consequence, denying them education and status in society, and enjoying and taking advantage of the freedom and perks that come with being the gender that does not carry and birth and nurse babies - women finally speak up for their equality and demand fair treatment and the so-called “men’s rights groups” pop up. Uh huh.

Sorry, no. I would never sleep with another man so this will never actually happen, but Lord knows if it did I would have zero problem doing whatever I could to make sure that the baby was raised in my family exclusively, by my husband as the father. Literally, zero problem.

I do not see how you do not understand that when adults make grievous mistakes, and a baby results, the interests of that child MUST be preeminent over adults’ desires. Do you honestly think it is best for a child to be known to his brothers and sisters and the rest of society as “the one mom had with some other man?” I do not think you are fully appreciating how devastating it would be to grow up as “that kid” in the family - the one that gets sent away every other weekend and misses holidays and is sometimes missing from dinner while the rest of his siblings are present.

Not every man that ever existed is guilty of those things. Sure some are but most are not. Most men are ready on a daily basis without thinking twice about giving their life for a woman. Sometimes even just a girlfriend. Men’s rights have many valid claims because feminism has perpetrated a spirit of hate against men for the sake of retribution of the crimes of a few.

How is your belittling of men as “mere seed donors” any less a denial of human rights than you claim women suffer? And men were treated as property too for thousands of years. It was called slavery and being sent off to war without a choice (draft… conscription) to protect women and children!! Two wrongs don’t make a right and that is what men’s rights are about!

 

[JackieMom]

Men’s Rights are laughable eh… “Some men are mere seed…” eh?

Well. That is quite revealing. That pretty much tells me what I am dealing with.

That is quite a laundry list of anti male sentiments. Rather a broad generalization of not only history, but men as well -eh?

There are just sooooooo many things wrong with your post I am presently speechless.

Yes, men’s rights are about as laughable as “white rights” or “abled person rights” or anything having to do with a powerful majority group claiming they need increased rights as a reaction to the increasing equality of the minority group they’ve historically subjugated.

And no, it was not just “a few bad men” denying women the right to vote or own property. We’ve had those rights for less than 100 years.

Do you disagree that some men are mere sperm donors? You have not addressed my point, which is that the welfare of the child and his environment comes first. You seem singularly focused on the idea that any male who impregnates a female “deserves” access to the child regardless of how this affects him and his family.

Why do you keep saying “eh?”

 

[silentfactor80]

Yes, men’s rights are about as laughable as “white rights” or “abled person rights” or anything having to do with a powerful majority group claiming they need increased rights as a reaction to the increasing equality of the minority group they’ve historically subjugated.

And no, it was not just “a few bad men” denying women the right to vote or own property. We’ve had those rights for less than 100 years.

Do you disagree that some men are mere sperm donors? You have not addressed my point, which is that the welfare of the child and his environment comes first. You seem singularly focused on the idea that any male who impregnates a female “deserves” access to the child regardless of how this affects him and his family.

Why do you keep saying “eh?”

I got news for you. Many men couldn’t vote for the longest time UNLESS they owned property. The reason for this was to discourage people who didn’t have a stake in the country’s well being from diluting the influence of those that did (i.e. land owners). Lower class men were no better off than lower class women. Also, women were not sent off to defend the country in those days so they did not have a say in what the governments actions. Men stupidly assumed women were more valuable than themselves so they wanted to protect them by NOT sending them off to war. This also meant not having a say. You should ask yourself why only in the last 100 years or so have women suddenly “found their voice.” I think the women of the past were quite content to send men out to do the dirty work.

Would you agree that some women are just mere incubators? Your anti-male tone is rather saddening. Also, we’re not claiming we need MORE rights. We want equal rights and to stop being treated like villains. Minorities CAN and DO discriminate against the majorities. Of coarse if you followed the last election women and minorities were actually the MAJORITY so yes, it is possible for such groups to discriminate against white men. Just look at Obamacare and how it is a feminist dream. Nothing for men’s health but everything for womens health. When it comes to sterilization they mandate covering female sterilization but not for men. Granted a true Catholic would not use such services but it just goes to show how women don’t care about men.