Patriarch of the West

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In 2006 the pope dropped the title “Patriarch of the West”.

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0601225.htm

I honestly don’t understand the reasoning behind this decision. Could anyone explain this? Do you think it harms dialogue with the Orthodox? Does it imply a rejection of a less monarchial ecclesiology?
 
I’m curious as well. This would seem to be damaging of the relationship with the Orthodox.

Unless perhaps it was exchanged “Patriarch of the West” with “Patriarch of Rome”? I don’t think it was, but I could see His Holiness recognizing that “the West” is now half the globe that is our planet, lol, and wanted to recognize that such an area is too large for one Patriarchate. That doesn’t seem to fit with the Roman Catholic view of The Pope, however.
 
I’m curious as well. This would seem to be damaging of the relationship with the Orthodox.

Unless perhaps it was exchanged “Patriarch of the West” with “Patriarch of Rome”? I don’t think it was, but I could see His Holiness recognizing that “the West” is now half the globe that is our planet, lol, and wanted to recognize that such an area is too large for one Patriarchate. That doesn’t seem to fit with the Roman Catholic view of The Pope, however.
I can see why the term would be confusing since it doesn’t specify territory, but the rejection of his role as patriarch disturbs me as an Orthodox.

Mardukm, I’d love to hear your thoughts on Pope as patriarch and how it relates to this question!
 
It’s important to keep in mind that Patriarch of the West was not a traditional term used in the Roman Church. Patriarch doesb’t have the same canonical meaning in the Latin Church, and was used for major Sees, like Venice for example. This is also true in the Armenian Orthox Church, where Catholicos is the chief title and there are several Patriarchs.

So in that context the title didn’t quite fit, especially since West doesn’t really apply anymore. Are the Western Orthodox under Rome?😛

In fact, the move was intended to facilitate reunion, IIRC, though it seems to have been a miscalculation.

Peace and God bless!
 
Dear brother Don,
I can see why the term would be confusing since it doesn’t specify territory, but the rejection of his role as patriarch disturbs me as an Orthodox.

Mardukm, I’d love to hear your thoughts on Pope as patriarch and how it relates to this question!
According to official Vatican sources, the dropping of the title is intended to “advance the ecumenical dialogue.”

So I have to interpret it in a way consistent with that official understanding.

I am aware of the criticism by some Orthodox that the dropping of the title can be construed to mean that the he is giving up the title of “Patriarch of the West” to reinfoce the idea of a UNIVERSAL jurisdiction. In good conscience, I have to consider the question “Does this advance the ecumenical dialogue?” If it doesn’t, then I am not in the least convinced that was the actual intention of the action.

Some commentators I’ve read have noted that HH JP2 of thrice-blessed memory was himself thinking of dropping the title, in order to promote the idea that the Pope does not care just for the Western Church, but for the whole Church.

But HH Pope Benedict is not HH JP2. In an essay which HH Pope Benedict wrote back in 1969 (obviously was not yet Pope :D), entitled “Primacy and Episcopacy” he expressed the following sentiments:

The image of a centralized state which the Catholic church presented right up to the council does not flow only from the Petrine office, but from its strict amalgamation with the patriarchal function which grew ever stronger in the course of history and which fell to the bishop of Rome for the whole of Latin Christendom. The uniform canon law, the uniform liturgy, the uniform appointment of bishops by the Roman center: all these are things which are not necessarily part of the primacy but result from the close union of the two offices. For that reason, the task to consider for the future will be to distinguish again and more clearly between the proper function of the successor of Peter and the patriarchal office and, where necessary, to create new patriarchates and to detach them from the Latin church. To embrace unity with the pope would then no longer mean being incorporated into a uniform administration, but only being inserted into a unity of faith and communion, in which the pope is acknowledged to have the power to give binding interpretations of the revelation given in Christ, whose authority is accepted whenever it is given in definitive form…In the not too distant future one could consider whether the churches of Asia and Africa, like those of the East, should not present their own forms as autonomous ‘patriarchates’ or ‘great churches’ or whatever such ecclesiae in the Ecclesia might be called in the future.

That is how I have understood HH Pope Benedict’s intention of dropping the title “Patriarch of the West” to be - to pave the way for greater jurisdictional autonomy of Eastern and Oriental Catholic communities who are in territories that are traditionally regarded as being under Western Patriarchal jurisdiction. At the very least, I consider that to be its most PRACTICAL result.

The problem I percieve as I hear the Orthodox concerns about the dropping of the title is that for all the Orthodox pleas (from lay and clerical sources) that jurisdiction should be understood in terms of service and love, their/your own Orthodox hierarchy still very much understands local jurisdiction in terms of control. It is the Popes of the Catholic Church who have consistently called for an understanding of jurisdiction - of power - in terms of service and love, as imminently exemplified by Pope St. Gregory the Great. This was noted, IIRC, by Metropolitan Kallistos at the recent Orientale Lumen conference.

It should be noted that Catholic commentators on the action are almost unanimous that the Pope has not relinquished his role as Patriarch of the Latin Church.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
In 2006 the pope dropped the title “Patriarch of the West”.

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0601225.htm

I honestly don’t understand the reasoning behind this decision. Could anyone explain this? Do you think it harms dialogue with the Orthodox? Does it imply a rejection of a less monarchial ecclesiology?
The Pope will always be the Bishop of Rome, Patriarch of the West. Why separate the titles? Its not like one can be Pope and another can be Patriarch of the West.
 
In 2006 the pope dropped the title “Patriarch of the West”.

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0601225.htm

I honestly don’t understand the reasoning behind this decision. Could anyone explain this? Do you think it harms dialogue with the Orthodox? Does it imply a rejection of a less monarchial ecclesiology?
The reasoning:

“Obviously, this meaning of the term “West” does not intend to describe an ecclesiastical territory nor it can be used as a definition of a patriarchal territory. If you want to give to the term ‘West’ a meaning applicable to ecclesiastical juridical language, it could only be understood with reference to the Latin Church. … , the title “Patriarch of the West” from the outset is unclear, and with the evolution of history became obsolete and practically unusable.”

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/sub-index/index_general-docs.htm
 
The reasoning:

“Obviously, this meaning of the term “West” does not intend to describe an ecclesiastical territory nor it can be used as a definition of a patriarchal territory. If you want to give to the term ‘West’ a meaning applicable to ecclesiastical juridical language, it could only be understood with reference to the Latin Church. … , the title “Patriarch of the West” from the outset is unclear, and with the evolution of history became obsolete and practically unusable.”

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/sub-index/index_general-docs.htm
Yes, this is what I understood as well. The official explanation is that “the West” is simply an inaccurate indentifier. The Latin Church is a truly global Church in every sense of the word, and particular traditions/customs, from liturgy to spirituality, have been and will continue to be impacted by non-Western cultures. For example, Latin Catholics in India remove their shoes when entering a church. This is not the product of a “Western mindset”, but it is a sign of reverence within the cultural context of India. The Pope continues to “function” as Patriarch of the Latin Church, but as other posters have pointed out, the title patriarch has never been as important in the Latin tradition as it has been in the East and Orient.
 
Yes, this is what I understood as well. The official explanation is that “the West” is simply an inaccurate indentifier. The Latin Church is a truly global Church in every sense of the word, and particular traditions/customs, from liturgy to spirituality, have been and will continue to be impacted by non-Western cultures. For example, Latin Catholics in India remove their shoes when entering a church. This is not the product of a “Western mindset”, but it is a sign of reverence within the cultural context of India. The Pope continues to “function” as Patriarch of the Latin Church, but as other posters have pointed out, the title patriarch has never been as important in the Latin tradition as it has been in the East and Orient.
I disagree with that. The Byzantine Rite is all over the world as well. In Benedict’s book “Spirit of Liturgy” He says only the Byzantine Rite has been as widespread and adopted by so many cultures as the Roman Rite and this attests to it’s adaptability and the missionary efforts of the greats saints of “East”.

I think Marduk’s quote was right on. I think we have to distinguish what is the BIshop of Rome’s powers as the successor to peter, and what are those given to him by his fellow bishops as Patriarch. A lot of time, these are blurred.
 
That is how I have understood HH Pope Benedict’s intention of dropping the title “Patriarch of the West” to be - to pave the way for greater jurisdictional autonomy of Eastern and Oriental Catholic communities who are in territories that are traditionally regarded as being under Western Patriarchal jurisdiction. At the very least, I consider that to be its most PRACTICAL result.
In practice, how has it affected the Pope’s relationship to the Italo-Greek Catholic Church, which he was traditionally the local primate over?
 
In practice, how has it affected the Pope’s relationship to the Italo-Greek Catholic Church, which he was traditionally the local primate over?
To my knowledge there has been NO practical impact whatsoever. The Pope has not consistently used this title in any official capacity - it has been more commonly used by the East, when describing the West, than by the West itself. The office of patriarch did not develop in the same way in the West. The Pope remains the primate of the Latin Church sui iuris and is its patriarch for all intents and purposes.
 
To my knowledge there has been NO practical impact whatsoever. The Pope has not consistently used this title in any official capacity - it has been more commonly used by the East, when describing the West, than by the West itself. The office of patriarch did not develop in the same way in the West. The Pope remains the primate of the Latin Church sui iuris and is its patriarch for all intents and purposes.
Thanks.
 
The reasoning:

“Obviously, this meaning of the term “West” does not intend to describe an ecclesiastical territory nor it can be used as a definition of a patriarchal territory. If you want to give to the term ‘West’ a meaning applicable to ecclesiastical juridical language, it could only be understood with reference to the Latin Church. … , the title “Patriarch of the West” from the outset is unclear, and with the evolution of history became obsolete and practically unusable.”

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/sub-index/index_general-docs.htm
I interpret this to mean he does not see the Latin church as limited geographically. It apparently does not have a ‘home territory’.

I do recall once reading that long ago Cardinal Ratzinger had theorized a more decentralized Catholic church with patriarchs in various regions like South America and East Asia actually responsible for those areas (presumably for the Latin church only). I don’t have a link. Importantly the Pope would have to be considered above all of that. Sitting at a higher level entirely, appointing and supervising these patriarchs.

I think perhaps that this move was in concert with that idea, although he may have abandoned the concept of naming regional patriarchs long since.
 
To my knowledge there has been NO practical impact whatsoever. The Pope has not consistently used this title in any official capacity - it has been more commonly used by the East, when describing the West, than by the West itself. The office of patriarch did not develop in the same way in the West. The Pope remains the primate of the Latin Church sui iuris and is its patriarch for all intents and purposes.
However, for the Latin Church patriarch is defined this way:

CIC Can. 438 The title of Patriarch or Primate gives a prerogative of honour, but in the latin Church does not carry with it any power of governance, except in certain matters where an apostolic privilege or approved custom establishes otherwise.

Primate of Italy
Patriarch of Jerusalem
Patriarch of Lisboa
Patriarch of Venezia
Patriarch of East Indies
Patriarch of Indias Occidentales (vacant)
 
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