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Sarcelle
Guest
No American flag displayed anywhere in my parish church.
Patriotic Masses
- Thread starter blackforest
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
In the USA, the churches with flags (generally of the United States and the Vatican) tend to be older churches, often with a history of sending many parishioners off to various major wars. As an example the church a few blocks away here is one of the older churches in this area (dates to about 1800), has several veterans’ memorials for parishioners in and around the building and has the flags hanging unobtrusively in the back of the church as well as a couple stained glass windows featuring military saints (St. Michael, St. Joan of Arc, St. Sebastian) with a US flag patterned shield.
Newer churches built since Vatican II (Vietnam era) are more likely to have the flags and the veterans’ display in the church vestibule or not have it at all.
I personally like seeing the flags in the church proper though I wouldn’t want them in the sanctuary (and they are never there in my experience). Then again my family is full of veterans, some of whom were killed in action.
Newer churches built since Vatican II (Vietnam era) are more likely to have the flags and the veterans’ display in the church vestibule or not have it at all.
I personally like seeing the flags in the church proper though I wouldn’t want them in the sanctuary (and they are never there in my experience). Then again my family is full of veterans, some of whom were killed in action.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Yes, in the USA we don’t tend to have a problem of multiple flags…one for all, all for one.
They do bring in the flag of the particular nation at times in the National Parishes which are designated to serve people of a certain nationality. For example the Hispanic National Parish has the Mexican flag hanging behind the statue of Our Lady of Guadalupe in the church during her big feast. It is not there at other times.
They do bring in the flag of the particular nation at times in the National Parishes which are designated to serve people of a certain nationality. For example the Hispanic National Parish has the Mexican flag hanging behind the statue of Our Lady of Guadalupe in the church during her big feast. It is not there at other times.
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Cruciferi
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Athanasiy
Guest
If we only assume that all borders, countries, empires, and states are artificial and mad-made then what will you answer to the young lads who gave their lives and health for the integrity of the borders of their country?
What about Catholicism with national features whose foundation is largely national liberation and state-building?
Some nations have been fighting for their independence for centuries.
There are activists who by martyrdom prove their love for the nation.
For many - God, nation and faith - are inseparable.
What about Catholicism with national features whose foundation is largely national liberation and state-building?
Some nations have been fighting for their independence for centuries.
There are activists who by martyrdom prove their love for the nation.
For many - God, nation and faith - are inseparable.
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Dolphin
Guest
I’m not a fan of patriotism in mass, I don’t think we should be equating the United States for example (for Catholics in US) to how a government and country should look in relation to Catholicism.
The social teachings of the Church do not align with the US. Patriotism should be left outside the doors in my opinion. Catholicism is a place of cultural and racial equality, where all are welcome and loved. Countries do not share this view and as such should not be in the same genre if you will, as Catholicism
The social teachings of the Church do not align with the US. Patriotism should be left outside the doors in my opinion. Catholicism is a place of cultural and racial equality, where all are welcome and loved. Countries do not share this view and as such should not be in the same genre if you will, as Catholicism
Tis_Bearself
Patron
That’s actually the basic social teaching of the US, at least since the Civil War.
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Athanasiy
Guest
For example, in Ukrainian Catholicism (Ukrainian Greek Catholics) there are stages of a very bitter Calvary and the enormous price that Catholics patriots paid for the faith inseparable from the national idea.
In the Ukrainian nationalist movement, the struggle for independence was even frequently inspired by the clergy.
Once, a priest even led a newly created state.
en.m.wikipedia.org
A militaristic or pro-war approach is always present and inspiring.
I don’t know how much Wikipedia uses facts, but there are historical periods when the national church inspired it to fight for its freedom and state and for not passively doomed fate.
en.m.wikipedia.org
en.m.wikipedia.org
In the Ukrainian nationalist movement, the struggle for independence was even frequently inspired by the clergy.
Once, a priest even led a newly created state.
Carpatho-Ukraine - Wikipedia
A militaristic or pro-war approach is always present and inspiring.
I don’t know how much Wikipedia uses facts, but there are historical periods when the national church inspired it to fight for its freedom and state and for not passively doomed fate.
Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalists - Wikipedia
War in Donbas - Wikipedia
blackforest
Well-known member
The concept of the nation-state is a very modern concept. “Nation” has a different meaning in the Scriptures and indeed throughout most of history, referring more to cultural groups than to political boundary lines. The Basque “nation,” for example, spans both Spain and France and likely exhibits a lot more loyalty within itself than to the Paris or Madrid.
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Dolphin
Guest
Clearly not practiced however.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
As does every US parish I’ve ever been inside!
About the patriotic songs, as long as the song is a prayer or praise to God, I’m cool. When it is something that praises country, I’d rather they do that at the PicNic.
About the patriotic songs, as long as the song is a prayer or praise to God, I’m cool. When it is something that praises country, I’d rather they do that at the PicNic.
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Athanasiy
Guest
Patriotic faith is a risky but history-changing inspiration.
Fighting against the Nazzi, Soviet, Putin’s empires is a big deal.
Fighting against the Nazzi, Soviet, Putin’s empires is a big deal.
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Cirdan_XII
Guest
There is a huge difference between being deeply patriotic and blindly obeying orders.
Having a strong military and patriotic support is not at all the same thing as being gung-ho about war.
Having a strong military and patriotic support is not at all the same thing as being gung-ho about war.
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bassmansteiny
Guest
Well that’s just silly. If you are a US citizen, your American regardless of what political view you hold or what political party you support. During earlier times in this country Americans were united and showed their patriotism regardless of those positions. Didn’t matter if they were liberal or Conservative, they flew flags, supported the troops and ect. The whole political thing involving patriotism is very new, only a few years old and really sad. After almost 3000 of our countrymen/women were murdered on 9/11, Christians Jewish, Muslims, women, men, children and about every different ethnicity you can think of - we pulled together as a country. Everyone had a flag flying. There was literally a shortage of flags at the time you could not find one!!! I saw people literally make paper flags and put them in the back window of their cars. When we fly the flag or sing a song like America the Beautiful, we honor those that died fighting for this country, like many of our own family members on this forum. I guess if it is that big of a deal then we should not have Mass for police officers, fire fighters and ect! Sometimes I am just amazed, people should do some research before they post comments 
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bassmansteiny
Guest
Yes they do! 
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bassmansteiny
Guest
Unfortunately it is something fairly new. Really it’s sad. Some of the younger generation of liberal, associate the flag with Trump. I’ve actually been called a racist and Trump supporter (I did vote for him, yes) when all I had on was a t shirt with an American flag on it. I was not wearing anything political one way or the other. My Grandparents (mom’s side) were staunch Democrats. They would be applaud at the anti patriotism being displayed today.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
It’s no different than when we had a “younger generation” back in the 60s and 70s going around burning flags and spitting on returning US servicemen because they were against Vietnam.
Hopefully such people will grow up and out of their stupidity.
It’s also ironic that the country whose flag its own native-born younguns are purporting to hate, is the same one that illegal immigrants are trying desperately to get into and remain in.
Hopefully such people will grow up and out of their stupidity.
It’s also ironic that the country whose flag its own native-born younguns are purporting to hate, is the same one that illegal immigrants are trying desperately to get into and remain in.
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bassmansteiny
Guest
Some do, some don’t. My experience is it is far more don’t have the flag at the front of the Church, when it is usually also there is a Vatican state flag. Our Priest had it taken out of the church and moved to the hall. Let’s just say there were some upset Veterans and Knights (Knights of Columbus)
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bassmansteiny
Guest
In the United States, we don’t show patriotism (flags, songs and ect) in honor of our leaders. We do it in honor of those who sacrificed their lives for our country, those that died in the line of duty - military personnel, police officers, firefighters, first responders and those that died in tragedies like 9/11.
blackforest
Well-known member
They associate the flag with Trump because of the Republicans, who since the Reagan era have successfully misled the public to believe that their own agenda was patriotic, and that anyone who disagreed with them “hated America.” Not all Joe-and-Jane Republicans do this, to be fair, but it’s impressively cunning.
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