Patriotic music at Mass

[turtle18]

I commented on this back on Memorial Day. I was especially upset because it was either the fifth or sixth Sunday of Easter and instead of singing hymns glorifying Jesus and the Resurrection, we got a bunch of patriotic dribble, about God refining America’s gold (how Protestant is that?)

So Friday was the Solemnity of the Sacred Heart of Jesus and Saturday was the Memorial for the Immaculate Heart of Mary…and again, the music included several patriotic songs. I am not exactly certain what America the Beautiful or the Battle Hymn of the Republic has to do with either feast-the one verse from the Battle Hymn of the Republic-the one that starts, “in the beauty of the lillies Christ was born across the sea,” which could have been appropriate, was omitted.

I am thankful for the physical freedom I have here in America; however, true freedom comes from God and you can obtain this whether you live in a democracy, dictatorship, monarchy etc. God doesn’t shed his grace on America as a country per say anymore than he would any other country-God sheds his grace on the children of Jerusalem, the spritual nation which exists throughout the world despite the border of the country you live in.

 

[KarenElissa]

It’s always interesting to see how people will stay in the pews until the very end of America the Beautiful, but half of them cant be bothered to stay in for the full length of songs every other Sunday – songs that are explicitly dealing with God. Nowhere else do I see people so passionately singing their hearts out than when they sing to America – God doesn’t inspire anywhere close to this sort of outward showing of thanks.

I was thinking about this today and I think this is what bothers me the most. Usually the parish is half empty by the time we finish the recessional, and we only sing two verses, so it isn’t that long at all, but almost everyone stays for patriotic songs. I don’t get this.

I’m not a huge fan of the patriotic songs in mass, BUT if they are going to be there, I think my parish does it right. They are only used for the recessional. I would be much more annoyed if it was somewhere else, like communion.

 

[Bbigam]

Never. These songs take the focus away from God, and lead way to a nationalistic fervor. The lyrics of the songs act as if America (since I live here, I’m not sure about other countries’ practices) is somehow better than other countries or ordained by God. Given America’s history and the fact that we are involved in multiple unnecessary wars, maybe we shouldn’t be so haughty.

It’s always interesting to see how people will stay in the pews until the very end of America the Beautiful, but half of them cant be bothered to stay in for the full length of songs every other Sunday – songs that are explicitly dealing with God. Nowhere else do I see people so passionately singing their hearts out than when they sing to America – God doesn’t inspire anywhere close to this sort of outward showing of thanks.

Patriotic songs about the Vatican, however, I could get behind!

I’m with you here. I dislike patriotic songs at Mass, because we are there to worship God, not our country. People at my parish don’t slip out during the closing hymn anyway - but we sing more verses of a closing song that’s patriotic than a regular hymn!

Near national holidays we’ll sing something patriotic for the recessional and once in a while for the processional. Not during the Mass itself thankfully. I don’t normally join in the singing - although today, we sang My Country ‘Tis of Thee* and I did join in on the last verse - "Our fathers’ God, to thee…" When we sing America the Beautiful I’ll sing the line "God mend thine every flaw… "

*I have to admit that during “My Country 'Tis of Thee” today I was tempted to sing the words “God Save the Queen” instead just to be rebellious (I am American, not English). But I resisted the urge.

 

[TrueLight]

(Please refrain from comments such as, “you’d never have to worry about this in the TLM/Extraordinary Form/Mass of the Ages/SSPX/Byzantine Liturgy/etc.!” We know, sure, fine, but that’s not the point of this thread. Thanks.)

You know us well.

 

[CatholicZ09]

I think that patriotic hymns that focus moreso on God blessing our country are appropriate for the Mass. However, I think they are more appropriate for the processional and recessional than they would be for the Offertory or Holy Communion. I believe that the Offertory and Communion hymns should reflect upon the importance of what we are going to experience/are experiencing during the Mass, not our country. There are many good patriotic hymns that can be used during the Mass. One such hymn would be “God of Our Fathers,” the National Hymn.

 

[joanofarc2008]

I think it is fine as long as it is one that honors the Social Justice theme reminding us to be ever vigilante in how we must be Catholic in our affairs with State. For instance I believe the lyrics for America The Beautiful do that as well as Battle Hymn of the Republic if you get past the first verse. Which by the way our parish sings whole hymns.

 

[pnewton]

I’m all for it, if it is a song that is an appropriate invocation of God’s blessings on a country sore in need of it. Patriotism is a good thing and the Church has never spoken against it. Nationalism is not. St. Thomas Aquinas said:

“The principles (or origins) of our being and governing are our parents and our country, which have given us birth and nourishment. Consequently man is debtor chiefly to his parents and his country, after God. Wherefore, just as it belongs to religion to give worship to God, so does it belong to “pietas,” in the second place, to give worship to one’s parents and one’s country.”

Just as good family values have a place at Mass, so can patriotism. Neither need detract from worship of God.

 

[PodunkMommy]

Our homily pertained to the readings of today, like it should.

Our recessional song was America the Beautiful. I think that was fine. God gave us our country that we live in, that many people fought for and lost their lives for. I didn’t see the song as taking anything away from the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Blessings.

 

[familyof4]

No patriotic songs, but the pastor did remind us, after mass, to be sure to support the church by buying our fireworks at the stand run by our parish.

Like another poster upthread, we used “Let There Be Peace on Earth” as the recessional hymn, which was fine with me because I love that song.

I’m grateful that we do not use patriotic songs in place of hymns-- I belong to the Universal Church, which is spans all nations. I am glad I’m an American, and sing patriotic songs outside of church, but do not believe mass is the time or place for them.

 

[MissRose73]

I heard a patriotic song used at the end of the Daily Mass today on ETWN: “…America America God Shed His Grace On Thee…”. I was not offended when watching and sang along to the tv. I have been to plenty of churches on major American holidays, and a patriotic song with religion in it is used at the closing, not at other times of Mass.

The daily reading and gospel also focused on freedom and social responsibility too. Very fitting for the holiday.

 

[Joannm]

I don 't particularly care for patriotic hymns sung at mass. But several years ago I heard this hymn done on July 4 when I was studying at Notre Dame. I suggested it to our music director when I returned and we have been singing it on “patriotic holidays.” It is the tune Finlandia and is called This is My Song. I like it because it doesn’t smack of trimuphantalism. We sang it this SUnday and also did The Battle Hymn of the Republic as a recessional. The big thing that bothers me is that everyone sings and stays for the whole song, but never when it is a song that gives praise to God. Everyone rushes out as soon as the hymn begins on other Sundays but not national holidays

This is my Song by
This is my song, Oh God of all the nations,
A song of peace for lands afar and mine.
This is my home, the country where my heart is;
Here are my hopes, my dreams, my sacred shrine.
But other hearts in other lands are beating,
With hopes and dreams as true and high as mine.

My country’s skies are bluer than the ocean,
And sunlight beams on cloverleaf and pine.
But other lands have sunlight too and clover,
And skies are everywhere as blue as mine.
Oh hear my song, oh God of all the nations,
A song of peace for their land and for mine.

May truth and freedom come to every nation;
may peace abound where strife has raged so long;
that each may seek to love and build together,
a world united, righting every wrong;
a world united in its love for freedom,
proclaiming peace together in one song.

 

[quiet52]

At my parish we used patriotic songs for the closing hyms after Sunday Masses and during today’s Mass. I think it’s appropriate to pray for our nation in song – our nation needs the prayers. Also, using patriotic prayers on patriotic holidays reminds Catholics that we cannot separate our faith from the public square.

Our fathers’ God, to Thee,
author of Liberty, to Thee we sing.
Long may our land be bright
with freedom’s holy light;
protect us by Thy might,
Great God, our King!

GOD BLESS AMERICA
(Irving Berlin)

God Bless America, land that I love.
Stand beside her, and guide her,
through the night with the light from above.
From the mountains, to the prairies,
to the oceans, white with foam,
God Bless America,
my home sweet home.
God Bless America,
my home sweet home

BATTLE HYMN OF THE REPUBLIC

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored;
He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword;
His truth is marching on. (Chorus)

Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! His truth is marching on.

I have seen Him in the watch fires of a hundred circling camps;
They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps;
I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps;
His day is marching on. (Chorus)

He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat;
He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment seat;
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet;
Our God is marching on. (Chorus)

In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me;
As He died to make men holy,
.… LET US DIE TO MAKE MEN FREE
While God is marching on. (Chorus)

 

[CatholicZ09]

I don 't particularly care for patriotic hymns sung at mass. But several years ago I heard this hymn done on July 4 when I was studying at Notre Dame. I suggested it to our music director when I returned and we have been singing it on “patriotic holidays.” It is the tune Finlandia and is called This is My Song. I like it because it doesn’t smack of trimuphantalism. We sang it this SUnday and also did The Battle Hymn of the Republic as a recessional. The big thing that bothers me is that everyone sings and stays for the whole song, but never when it is a song that gives praise to God. Everyone rushes out as soon as the hymn begins on other Sundays but not national holidays

This is my Song by
This is my song, Oh God of all the nations,
A song of peace for lands afar and mine.
This is my home, the country where my heart is;
Here are my hopes, my dreams, my sacred shrine.
But other hearts in other lands are beating,
With hopes and dreams as true and high as mine.

My country’s skies are bluer than the ocean,
And sunlight beams on cloverleaf and pine.
But other lands have sunlight too and clover,
And skies are everywhere as blue as mine.
Oh hear my song, oh God of all the nations,
A song of peace for their land and for mine.

May truth and freedom come to every nation;
may peace abound where strife has raged so long;
that each may seek to love and build together,
a world united, righting every wrong;
a world united in its love for freedom,
proclaiming peace together in one song.

“This Is My Song” is one of the most beautiful patriotic hymns. I love the “Finlandia” hymn tune!

 

[benedictgal]

As a Southerner, I would not want to hear, much less, sing, the Battle Hymn of the Republic. By the same token, as much as I love Texas, I don’t think that it would be appropriate to sing “Texas, Our Texas” as the recessional for Mass on March 2nd (Texas Independence Day).

Along the same lines, that is why I did not use any “patriotic” music this past Sunday. Our true homeland is Heaven. For the recessional, I used “O God, Our Help in Ages Past”. My parish, however, used “America the Beautiful” for the recessional.

 

[exnihilo]

I think it is fine as long as it is one that honors the Social Justice theme reminding us to be ever vigilante in how we must be Catholic in our affairs with State. For instance I believe the lyrics for America The Beautiful do that as well as Battle Hymn of the Republic if you get past the first verse.

The Battle Hymn is a war song and nothing more. If you read the lyrics of the whole song it has no theological value other than false doctrine. It talks of fires in army camps, burnished rows of steel (guns), and Christ being born in lilies when a lowly manger was His birthplace. This is not surprising since the author was a Unitarian.

 

[joanofarc2008]

The Battle Hymn is a war song and nothing more. If you read the lyrics of the whole song it has no theological value other than false doctrine. It talks of fires in army camps, burnished rows of steel (guns), and Christ being born in lilies when a lowly manger was His birthplace. This is not surprising since the author was a Unitarian.

Not so: Includes Just War Doctrine and Dogma of Mary

I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel:
"As ye deal with my contemners, so with you my grace shall deal;
Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with his heel,
Since God is marching on."

This is several OT stories - brings to mind Jericho:

He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat;
He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment-seat:
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet!
Our God is marching on.

What you missed here was that the lillies here were referring to the Resurrection not the Birth:

In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me:
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,
While God is marching on.

And so on - God bless. Not all war is bad that is why there is a Just War Doctrine. If all war was bad we would be drinking taxed tea and speaking German!

 

[exnihilo]

As a Southerner, I would not want to hear, much less, sing, the Battle Hymn of the Republic.

Amen to that. But I’ve heard it in many a Southern church. I think it is a testament to just how ignorant folks are of history. But even if you aren’t aware the words are nothing but martial, nothing but a particular wars propaganda and thoroughly Unitarian and therefore nothing Christian. Its popularity in the South might also be a testament to just how little people reflect on the words when singing.

 

[joanofarc2008]

Amen to that. But I’ve heard it in many a Southern church. I think it is a testament to just how ignorant folks are of history. But even if you aren’t aware the words are nothing but martial, nothing but a particular wars propaganda and thoroughly Unitarian and therefore nothing Christian. Its popularity in the South might also be a testament to just how little people reflect on the words when singing.

I can understand not playing it in the South but just because it was written by a Unitarian does not mean it does not have merit either - somehow I doubt you even read my last post which shows how little you reflect on the opinions of others.

 

[exnihilo]

Not so: Includes Just War Doctrine and Dogma of Mary

I dont really see a thorough explanation of Just War in this song. I dont know what specifically you refer to regarding Dogma of Mary

This is several OT stories - brings to mind Jericho:

I’m not saying war is inherently wrong or that the Bible does not have stories of war. I doubt songs about Jericho are often sung. I doubt even more songs about the fires of Hell are often sung.

What you missed here was that the lillies here were referring to the Resurrection not the Birth:

Christ is not born in the Resurrection. He was born in a manger. The use of across the sea makes it clear the birth referred to was his birth 2,000 years ago.

And so on - God bless. Not all war is bad that is why there is a Just War Doctrine. If all war was bad we would be drinking taxed tea and speaking German!

I’m pretty sure my tea is taxed, quite heavily, and German was a very popular language in the US during the revolution and afterward. Many communities in the US used German for daily living.

 

[exnihilo]

I can understand not playing it in the South but just because it was written by a Unitarian does not mean it does not have merit either - somehow I doubt you even read my last post which shows how little you reflect on the opinions of others.

Because it was written by a Unitarian does not make it bad. Because it shows muddle Unitarian theology makes it bad.

I did read your post. And I replied. What is more likely is you did not read the timestamps of my posts and jumped to a conclusion about me.