Patriotism and Catholicism

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PaulJason

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Do any of you have a conflict between Catholicism (our faith) and patriotism for a country whose revolution and much of its founding was fueled by vehement anti-Catholicism?
 
So you have found this perfect country I’d want to move to instead?

The question is whether I can practice my faith here now, and whether patriotism for this country is inevitably in conflict with my faith. If not, then I don’t feel a conflict.
 
PaulJason said:
Do any of you have a conflict between Catholicism (our faith) and patriotism for a country whose revolution and much of its founding was fueled by vehement anti-Catholicism?
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It sure surprised me when I first learned of it. But I wouldn’t want to live anywhere else.
 
This country was built on the sweat, blood and tears of great men and women who sacrificed everything to be here.

I think of our soldiers who suffered and died under our flag for their posterity, us.

I am heartbroken to realize that it may, indeed, have all been in vain.
 
So you have found this perfect country I’d want to move to instead?
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I never said nor suggested I had, but thank you for the condescending reply.
The question is whether I can practice my faith here now, and whether patriotism for this country is inevitably in conflict with my faith. If not, then I don’t feel a conflict.
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If that is your question then I would suggest you start a thread to have it answered. A yes or no and a non-condescending explanation was all that was required.
 
mark_a said:
It sure surprised me when I first learned of it. But I wouldn’t want to live anywhere else.
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Thank you

I can not think of a better country to live in either. It was just a thought that struck me while reading histories of the early colonies.
 
No. Charles Carroll was a signer of the Declaration of Independence. Commodore John Barry was the father of the American Navy. Archbishop John Carroll was a strong supporter of the Revolution, and they were Catholics, just like a sizeable percentage of our first navy.
 
It is important to acknowledge the potent anti-Catholic strain of American history, but it is also important to realize that it didn’t win, and that Catholics made important contributions to the country.
 
I believe that St. Thomas taught that love of one’s country was a duty for all Catholics. And there is much to love in this country, to be sure.
 
I am somewhat proud of my Irish Catholic heritage in this country. What obstacles they overcame! I am proud to be part of the CIA…Catholic Irish American:thumbsup:
 
The USA isn’t the only country with anti-catholic roots. Here in western Canada, we had problems with the Orange Order, an anti catholic racist organization.
 
I think the English anti Catholic feeling didn’t survive long in America. Maryland was founded for Catholics and religious freedom is an important value in the founding of the USA. I saw a documentary once where Roman Catholic rosaries were even found at Plymouth Colony. Nativism and anti Catholic feeling blurred a bit when there was heavy immigration from Southern Europe but a lot of that was exaggerated for Hollyweird purposes.
 
asnlady said:
I think the English anti Catholic feeling didn’t survive long in America. Maryland was founded for Catholics and religious freedom is an important value in the founding of the USA. I saw a documentary once where Roman Catholic rosaries were even found at Plymouth Colony. Nativism and anti Catholic feeling blurred a bit when there was heavy immigration from Southern Europe but a lot of that was exaggerated for Hollyweird purposes.
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I just made a post downplaying anti-Catholicism a little bit, but now I’ll highlight it to show how important it was.

Maryland didn’t last long as a haven for Catholics. Protestants in Virginia and small landholders throughout the colony opposed it from the very start, and it wasn’t long before the special status of Catholics in Maryland came to an end. By the time of independence, it was not really a Catholic haven at all.

Boston celebrated Pope’s Day for years, where they would burn an effigy of the pope. Only the mass waves of Irish Catholics ended that particular tradition. Still, the Puritans had little tolerance for Catholics, even allying with non-Christian Native American tribes to try and wipe out the French-allied tribes, who had all converted to Catholicism and were even receiving absolution before battle. They were referred to as “Satanic Indians” by Cotton Mather.

One of the famous Intolerable Acts that led to Revolution was the Quebec Act, which guaranteed religious freedom to Roman Catholics in Quebec. This was deeply offensive to colonial sensibilities.

This is all pre-independence anti-Catholicism, let alone the Know Nothing waves of the 1840’s, which tried to ban Catholic schooling, and even set a convent on fire, or the KKK marches of the 1920’s targeted against Catholic institutions like the University of Notre Dame.
 
DavidPalm said:
I believe that St. Thomas taught that love of one’s country was a duty for all Catholics. And there is much to love in this country, to be sure.
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Yes, he did. St. Thomas connected it to the love of one’s parents. The Commandment to “honor your father and your mother” includes, as he notes, the duty of patriotism to one’s country.
St. Thomas Aquinas had already coupled together these two devotions, to parents and to country (Summa Theologica, 2a, 2ae, Q. 101). Dealing with the virtue of “pietas,” dutifulness, he writes: “The principles (or origins) of our being and governing are our parents and our country, which have given us birth and nourishment. Consequently man is debtor chiefly to his parents and his country, after God. Wherefore, just as it belongs to religion to give worship to God, so does it belong to “pietas,” in the second place, to give worship to one’s parents and one’s country.” Thus, unlike nationalism, patriotism comes within the sphere of virtue, duty, and moral obligation.
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catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=1125&CFID=27528106&CFTOKEN=89390011
 
We are free to worship in this country. So, I think it’s almost right that we honor and love our country for allowing us to practice our religions freely.
 
Lujack said:
I just made a post downplaying anti-Catholicism a little bit, but now I’ll highlight it to show how important it was.
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Nobody will argue that this country was founded by people who were historically in conflict with Rome. I don’t think that is the root of the question. The question is wether or not a Catholic can be a patriot. The answer is yes. I am a firm defendor of the Constitution.

The men who penned it were looking out for themselves, their property and the rights of their home states. The beauty of the Constitution did not come to light until the Civil war when we as a nation came to accept that we were more than a loose confederation of states but a nation of, by and for its people. It was Lincoln that cemented the Constitution’s rights and freedoms for all citizens. Even Catholics.

Did this quell personal distrust and even hatered by some? No. Only time and example did that. Today Catholics are as entrenched a face of this nation as any Protestant group. We are 29% of the congress. The single largest group of legislators. And yet we do not vote along religious lines. All the old fallacies that the Pope controlled our votes have been erased. Only radical groups like the KKK seem to still hold a grudge. But who really cares what they have to say?

I am an American Catholic and a patriot. A defender of the Constitution, however imperfect, because it protects my way of life and defends my Roman Faith.
 
LUISV said:
Nobody will argue that this country was founded by people who were historically in conflict with Rome. I don’t think that is the root of the question. The question is wether or not a Catholic can be a patriot. The answer is yes. I am a firm defendor of the Constitution.

The men who penned it were looking out for themselves, their property and the rights of their home states. The beauty of the Constitution did not come to light until the Civil war when we as a nation came to accept that we were more than a loose confederation of states but a nation of, by and for its people. It was Lincoln that cemented the Constitution’s rights and freedoms for all citizens. Even Catholics.

Did this quell personal distrust and even hatered by some? No. Only time and example did that. Today Catholics are as entrenched a face of this nation as any Protestant group. We are 29% of the congress. The single largest group of legislators. And yet we do not vote along religious lines. All the old fallacies that the Pope controlled our votes have been erased. Only radical groups like the KKK seem to still hold a grudge. But who really cares what they have to say?

I am an American Catholic and a patriot. A defender of the Constitution, however imperfect, because it protects my way of life and defends my Roman Faith.
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Oh, I agree with that. I was just contesting the point that anti-Catholicism died away quickly. I’m also a Catholic and a patriot, but I think it needs to be acknowledged that anti-Catholicism was around for a long time.
 
My grandfather high-tailed it here during WWI, when he saw his native Italy going to heck in a handbasket. He came and fought with us. His heart broke for his countrymen, though.

Our country was at its best when the Catholics were immigrating here and they were more numerous than the others.

Unfortunately, this was short-lived, and, there is no America for us to run away to, as it lurches in the same direction of all the countries our ancestors fled from.

It is less the reality and more the ideals this country stands for, that make it great. I believe God arranged for our ancestors to come here to preserve these freedoms and priveleges for us, perhaps in answer to their prayers and sacrifices.

This is what gives me hope. That God will not abandon us, if only for the sake of our great grandparents who stayed true to the Faith, and prayed and sacrificed on our behalf. Knowing how God is, He will honor their prayers and sacrifices in spite of our ingratitude and lukewarmness.

At least I hope this is the case.
 
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