patron saints?

[Norm_The_Robot]

Hi. So I have always wondered something about Saints. Assuming they really are in heaven acting as our “lobbyists” with God, who decides a particular saint is the patron of a particular cause? How would we know a particular Saint has a cwrtain amount of “pull” with God in regard to certain things. Is it just a matter of someone praying for a certain saint to help them with a specific problem, and if it seems that the prayer was answered in a satisfactory it is decided whoever you prayed to must be the patron saint of whatever you were asking for?

Also, how can St. Michael be considered a saint if he is already an Arch Angel? Should a saint not be human? Or are the 2 not mutually exclusive? I have always wanted to know that.

 

[robwar]

often time patronage of a saint is based on a number of things, their geographic location (St. Joan of Arc for France, St. Francis of Assisi for Italy). It is also sometimes based on something the saint had suffered or struggled with in their life (St. JP II miracles involved parkinson and neurological brain disease something he suffered with), Another example may be the way the saint died (St. Maximillian Kolbe died by carbolic acid injection and yet his intercession has been known to help with those suffering from heroin addictions). St. Sebastian an early martyr was shot full of arrows and left to died but his physical fitness and ability help him initial survive the attack, therefore he is considered patron saint of athletes.

 

[LegoGE1947]

Hi. So I have always wondered something about Saints. Assuming they really are in heaven acting as our “lobbyists” with God, who decides a particular saint is the patron of a particular cause? How would we know a particular Saint has a cwrtain amount of “pull” with God in regard to certain things. Is it just a matter of someone praying for a certain saint to help them with a specific problem, and if it seems that the prayer was answered in a satisfactory it is decided whoever you prayed to must be the patron saint of whatever you were asking for?

Also, how can St. Michael be considered a saint if he is already an Arch Angel? Should a saint not be human? Or are the 2 not mutually exclusive? I have always wanted to know that.

I would like to know the answer to this also. As to Michael, my speculation is that he is a saint because he is in heaven. Satan is an “ain’t” because he is NOT in heaven, even though he was originally an arch angel as well:shrug: I’ll get a bag of popcorn and sit over here in the corneropcorn:

 

[pianistclare]

The Saints are deemed patrons of a particular need or thing because of what they did in their lives.
For ex: St. Monica prayed for years for the conversion of her son, Augustine, who is also a saint, but in his youth was pretty wild. So she is the patroness of mothers who are praying for their wayward children.
St. Clare saw the Mass happening from her sick bed “telepathically”, so she is the patron saint of tele-vision, television.
St. Lucy had her eyes gouged out…for refusing to deny Christ, So she is the patroness of eye ailments.
St. Cecilia heard angels singing as she was martyred, so she is the patroness of music and musicians.
St. John is the patron of Bookbinders and authors, because of his beautiful Gospel writing.
And so on and so forth.
the Archangels that are mentioned in the Bible by name are considered saints by “acclamation”.
All of us who end up in heaven will become saints. Now whether or not we end up with a feast day observed by all or our mugs on holy cards…you never know!
People do not turn into angels when they die. People tell children this, but it’s not so. Angels are a distinct species…separate from humans. They are immortal, non-corporal beings with free will. No one knows how many there are, but if you consider there are 9 choirs of angels, (groups, categories) and the 9th category is Guardian Angel (one for each person ever to live) that’s A LOT of angels.

Hope this helps!
peace.

 

[LegoGE1947]

The Saints are deemed patrons of a particular need or thing because of what they did in their lives.
For ex: St. Monica prayed for years for the conversion of her son, Augustine, who is also a saint, but in his youth was pretty wild. So she is the patroness of mothers who are praying for their wayward children.
St. Clare saw the Mass happening from her sick bed “telepathically”, so she is the patron saint of tele-vision, television.
St. Lucy had her eyes gouged out…for refusing to deny Christ, So she is the patroness of eye ailments.
St. Cecilia heard angels singing as she was martyred, so she is the patroness of music and musicians.
St. John is the patron of Bookbinders and authors, because of his beautiful Gospel writing.
And so on and so forth.
the Archangels that are mentioned in the Bible by name are considered saints by “acclamation”.
All of us who end up in heaven will become saints. Now whether or not we end up with a feast day observed by all or our mugs on holy cards…you never know!
People do not turn into angels when they die. People tell children this, but it’s not so. Angels are a distinct species…separate from humans. They are immortal, non-corporal beings with free will. No one knows how many there are, but if you consider there are 9 choirs of angels, (groups, categories) and the 9th category is Guardian Angel (one for each person ever to live) that’s A LOT of angels.

Hope this helps!
peace.

Was Satan an arch angel before he rebelled against God? Or hasn’t the Church ever taught what he was before then? I never knew that angels were a separate species than humans until I became Catholic. So Clarence, in It’s A Wonderful Life? That was just a bunch of stuff, that he was trying to get his wings by being assigned to watch over George Bailey?

 

[pianistclare]

Was Satan an arch angel before he rebelled against God? Or hasn’t the Church ever taught what he was before then? I never knew that angels were a separate species than humans until I became Catholic. So Clarence, in It’s A Wonderful Life? That was just a bunch of stuff, that he was trying to get his wings by being assigned to watch over George Bailey?

Satan (Lucifer) was a high ranking angel. Similar to Michael. I’m not sure if his rank is mentioned anywhere by Church Fathers. He did not want to serve Jesus. He refused.

A Wonderful Life is a story, a really cute story with a lovely ending, but as a lesson in the theology of angels? No.

There are some great documents in the EWTN library on angels, if you are interested.
Peace.

 

[LegoGE1947]

Satan (Lucifer) was a high ranking angel. Similar to Michael. I’m not sure if his rank is mentioned anywhere by Church Fathers. He did not want to serve Jesus. He refused.

A Wonderful Life is a story, a really cute story with a lovely ending, but as a lesson in the theology of angels? No.

There are some great documents in the EWTN library on angels, if you are interested.
Peace.

I sometimes wondered and hoped that MY guardian angel wasn’t a goof like Clarence! I think I will have a peek at EWTN website Thanks:thumbsup:

 

[pianistclare]

I sometimes wondered and hoped that MY guardian angel wasn’t a goof like Clarence! I think I will have a peek at EWTN website Thanks:thumbsup:

I always say that I have the hardest working angel in show business…people crack up.
Seriously though, my guardian angel has gotten me out of a lot of scrapes, and helped me immensely.
God bless you!

 

[LegoGE1947]

often time patronage of a saint is based on a number of things, their geographic location (St. Joan of Arc for France, St. Francis of Assisi for Italy). It is also sometimes based on something the saint had suffered or struggled with in their life (St. JP II miracles involved parkinson and neurological brain disease something he suffered with), Another example may be the way the saint died (St. Maximillian Kolbe died by carbolic acid injection and yet his intercession has been known to help with those suffering from heroin addictions). St. Sebastian an early martyr was shot full of arrows and left to died but his physical fitness and ability help him initial survive the attack, therefore he is considered patron saint of athletes.

I think it would be cool if John Paul II were named patron saint of the Pro-Life movement!

 

[Norm_The_Robot]

Ok, sounds more like choosing a “mascot” for you cause than anything we could really know is true.

Did Satan and the othet fallen angels object to Jesus specifically? Or mankind in general. Logic would seem to dictate that it would be man in general since they were created before mankind. Since all of God’s actions towards mankind seem to be done in response to what we have done on earth, I would think the angels rebelled against God before he even knew he would have to become Jesus and save us himself!

 

[LegoGE1947]

Ok, sounds more like choosing a “mascot” for you cause than anything we could really know is true.

Did Satan and the othet fallen angels object to Jesus specifically? Or mankind in general. Logic would seem to dictate that it would be man in general since they were created before mankind. Since all of God’s actions towards mankind seem to be done in response to what we have done on earth, I would think the angels rebelled against God before he even knew he would have to become Jesus and save us himself!

There is one online Catholic website that has dedicated its work and its building to Abp Fulton J Sheen who is on his way to becoming recognized a saint. There has been one miracle attributed to his intercession, a baby who wasn’t breathing for close to an hour after being born. Parents prayed that Abp Sheen interceded for the baby and it started to breathe

Archbishop Fulton Sheen Alleged Miracle Passes Major Vatican Test
www.ncregister.com/…/archbishop-fulton-sheen-alleged-miracle-passes-maj…
Mar 7, 2014 - The Vatican’s medical team unanimously approved the healing of a stillborn baby as unexplainable by science, marking a major step toward …

 

[robwar]

I think it would be cool if John Paul II were named patron saint of the Pro-Life movement!

actually, I’m thinking patron saint of soccer goalies since my daughter is a soccer goalie and that is the position he played growing up

 

[GreenWhiteBlue]

Most of the time, saints are regarded as patrons not because of any formal declaration by the church, but because of popular devotion. People in places, or professions, or situations of life may identify with this or that saint for various reasons, and the saint is then regarded as a “patron” for that group.

In quite a few cases, the means or instrument of a martyr’s death will cause a group that uses that instrument in their profession to regard the martyr as a patron. For example, Stephen was stoned to death, and so is the patron of stonemasons. St. Blaise was tortured with woolcombs, and so is the patron of woolcombers. St Apollonia had her teeth torn out with pliers, and so she is the patron of dentists. St Sebastian was shot with arrows, and so is the patron of archers, and St. Florian was drowned in a river, and so is the patron of firefighters – who use water (the means of Florian’s death) to put out fires.

You also have patrons derived from some of the legends associated with saints. For example, it was said that when St Ambrose preached, his words were so sweet to hear that bees used to swarm near his mouth, mistaking his sermons for honey. As a result, Ambrose is the patron of beekeepers. Because Joseph of Cupertino is said to have levitated while praying, he is the patron of aviators and airline pilots. Because St Antony Abbot was afflicted by the devil in the form of wild beasts, he (and not Francis of Assisi!) is the traditional patron saint of animals – and most especially of pigs.

People also look at the occupations of saints, and if they are in the same occupation they may regard the saint as a patron. Thus, St. Peter is the patron of fishermen, St Luke and Ss Cosmas and Damian are patrons of physicians, St George is one of the patrons of soldiers, St Isidore the Laborer is the patron of farmers, and St John Vianney is the patron of parish priests.

 

[LegoGE1947]

Most of the time, saints are regarded as patrons not because of any formal declaration by the church, but because of popular devotion. People in places, or professions, or situations of life may identify with this or that saint for various reasons, and the saint is then regarded as a “patron” for that group.

In quite a few cases, the means or instrument of a martyr’s death will cause a group that uses that instrument in their profession to regard the martyr as a patron. For example, Stephen was stoned to death, and so is the patron of stonemasons. St. Blaise was tortured with woolcombs, and so is the patron of woolcombers. St Apollonia had her teeth torn out with pliers, and so she is the patron of dentists. St Sebastian was shot with arrows, and so is the patron of archers, and St. Florian was drowned in a river, and so is the patron of firefighters – who use water (the means of Florian’s death) to put out fires.

You also have patrons derived from some of the legends associated with saints. For example, it was said that when St Ambrose preached, his words were so sweet to hear that bees used to swarm near his mouth, mistaking his sermons for honey. As a result, Ambrose is the patron of beekeepers. Because Joseph of Cupertino is said to have levitated while praying, he is the patron of aviators and airline pilots. Because St Antony Abbot was afflicted by the devil in the form of wild beasts, he (and not Francis of Assisi!) is the traditional patron saint of animals – and most especially of pigs.

People also look at the occupations of saints, and if they are in the same occupation they may regard the saint as a patron. Thus, St. Peter is the patron of fishermen, St Luke and Ss Cosmas and Damian are patrons of physicians, St George is one of the patrons of soldiers, St Isidore the Laborer is the patron of farmers, and St John Vianney is the patron of parish priests.

What about some saints where there is some doubt even as to their existence ? Such as St. Christopher, saint of travelers , or St Valentine, of lovers?

 

[BiffRuffle]

What about some saints where there is some doubt even as to their existence ? Such as St. Christopher, saint of travelers , or St Valentine, of lovers?

If I remember correctly, it’s thought that the man who became called ‘Christopher’ was not originally named that, but the name reflects the story - Christopher = Christ Bearer. The story goes that during a flash flood in Egypt, a large man, maybe a soldier, helped carry people, including the child Jesus and the Holy Family, across a raging river. Thus, the man was named ‘Christopher.’ He is now the patron of many things, including motorists and truck drivers. I’m still looking for a patron saint of garbage men…

 

[Millie123]

What about some saints where there is some doubt even as to their existence ? Such as St. Christopher, saint of travelers , or St Valentine, of lovers?

I don’t much about St Christopher but I would like to point out that St. Valentine does exist. Apparently a long long time ago Valentine was a very popular baby name. Looking at the list of Catholic Saints, the church has:

10 Saint Valentines
and 1 Pope Valentine

In Addition to celebrating Saint Valentines day on February 14th, you can also celebrate the feast day of St Valentine on July 16th, December 16th, September 2, January 7, April 29, November 1, November 17, November 3, and May 2nd (Yes, last week was Saint Valentines Day…Happy Valentine’s Day)

The name Valentine back in the Roman era is similar to the name Jennifer today…How many Jennifer’s do you know? I have 2 cousin Jennifer’s, and I used to work with a girl named Jen and another girl named Jenny, and I remember back in elementary school we would have at least 3 girls named Jennifer in one class.

 

[marylauravicuna]

It is also sometimes based on something the saint had suffered or struggled with in their life (St. JP II miracles involved parkinson and neurological brain disease something he suffered with),

Thanks for sharing this. Since we all have strengths and weaknesses and there are a lot of controversies regarding the Church, it helps to know what his key strengths were. It seems that this was revealed in the miracles that occurred when people asked for his intercession, he was able to remain loving despite the bullet that killed him and despite the suffering from parkinson and neurological brain disease.

Its frequently based on where the person showed sanctity. I’ve read the biographies of a few saints, and was able to figure out what they would be the patron of correctly (without knowing the truth) just by reading their biography.