Paul Corrupted/Created Christianity

[rinnie]

When you read the book the Pope has wrote you will understand better.

Yeshua was God’s Son. Before he came down and became Man. He is God the Son of God. The Father and the Son created the universe as Jesus Christ taught.

John:10:29

John10:30 The Father and I are one.

Again there you have it. Again you cannot change those words. Jesus is not a liar he is God.

God revealed himself in 3 different ways.

He appeared in one Flesh as Jesus Christ.
He appeaared as the Holy Spirit comming down on Jesus at the Water with John the Baptist.
He Said IN HEAVEN this is my Beloved Son LISTEN TO HIM.

There you have it. 3 Person into One God.

THe Pope is a much better teacher than I. AGain that book will explain much more then I. The pope will tie the OT into the NT and show you where you can not see. I as you can see cannot.

Hopefully after reading that book you can see what you have said, and understand the hurtfull things you have said. And you can also see that you are forgiven, but not from me. From the Grace that God have given me to forgive. God Bless you.

 

[simplynoone]

I know that you may not or cannot understand this. But you are against me personally. Because Jesus said you are either with me or you are against me. If I am with Jesus, and you deny Jesus and do not accept him as your Lord and Savior, you are against him correct? So if you are against him. and I am with him. How can you not be against me also?

Errr… Rinnie, I am against worshiping him as God. That is strictly forbidden by God, to have other gods before Him. And He specifically says there is not any other God beside Him; no other Savior next to Him; there is none, but Him.

But, I am not against the teachings that Jesus brought forth. In fact, in the last few pages of this thread, I am the only one who HAS been defending the teachings of Jesus.

I am not against you. You can keep saying it until you are blue in the face and it does not make it any more true. I do not believe in holding to such a mentality that says all have to agree with my perspectives and be like me or they are against me (or I am against them). That is the equivalent to the playground bully mentality… no matter WHO displays that attitude… Jesus, the mother of Jesus, the Pope, even you. So, no, I am not against you. I just find you to be lacking in logic concerning what you are saying. That is all… almost. I also find it concerning considering that I know what you have said in your post is exactly the mentality that is shared by many. You say I am against you because I do not agree with worshiping an image… that is displacement of blame that is so common when one cannot logically back up what it is they expect others to believe. It centers on threats of punishment, false accusations, etc when the rewards and the vain lip service (false love) fails to win another over to the illogical ways of thinking that is christianity.

You may be against me, but IF you are (which I am not seeing any evidence of you being such necessarily), you only are because you are confused… therefore, I do not take offense.

To me when you say that If Jesus is God, God is a liar, do you realize how hurtfull and evil those words are, They are like a razor cutting my heart. Jesus is both human and divine. Both God and human.

Rinnie, if Jesus is God, then God is a liar. How can you possibly reconcile that Jesus is God and not in the same token be calling God a liar considering the following:

Num 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Hosea 11: 9 I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.

Isa 45:21-22
…there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

Isa 42:8
I am Jehovah, that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

To even say that Jesus, a man, can save us all via a one time fix blood sacrifice of his body is to, again call God a liar… how can you reconcile the two opposite views you are trying to claim?

Psa 49:7-9
None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
(For the redemption of their soul is precious, and it ceaseth for ever: )
That he should still live for ever, and not see corruption.

Ezek 18:20-21,27
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

Deut 24:16
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

WHAT GOD DECLARED:

Eccl 12:13
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Eccl 3:14
I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.

 

[simplynoone]

When you read the book the Pope has wrote you will understand better.

Understand who better? The Pope’s deceptive view? Because I will gain more understanding of God through His Word… that would be the Tanakh, not a man.

Yeshua was God’s Son. Before he came down and became Man. He is God the Son of God. The Father and the Son created the universe as Jesus Christ taught.

Jesus was part of the Son of God… but he was not THE ONLY Son of God, else you are saying that God’s declaration is to be ignored. Jesus is, was, and will not ever be God. I have clearly shown you that God declared He is not a man and that He alone is the Saviour… and He alone is God. There is NO OTHER! Else, reconcile how you are not saying He is a liar when you call Jesus, a man, God.

John10:30 The Father and I are one. Again there you have it. Again you cannot change those words. Jesus is not a liar he is God.

The Father and I are one is not the same as I am the Father.

God revealed himself in 3 different ways.

He appeared in one Flesh as Jesus Christ.
He appeaared as the Holy Spirit comming down on Jesus at the Water with John the Baptist.
He Said IN HEAVEN this is my Beloved Son LISTEN TO HIM.

There you have it. 3 Person into One God.

THe Pope is a much better teacher than I. AGain that book will explain much more then I. The pope will tie the OT into the NT and show you where you can not see. I as you can see cannot.

I think you are doing a fine job of presenting the false teachings of your Church. The problem as to me not understanding it is not your presentation… trust me. The problem in not convincing me that this is the Truth is that I do not have my mind turned off… it is on and I can clearly see that what is being taught by the church is NOT the Truth; it is full of inconsistencies.

Hopefully after reading that book you can see what you have said, and understand the hurtfull things you have said. And you can also see that you are forgiven, but not from me. From the Grace that God have given me to forgive. God Bless you.

It is said that the Truth hurts, so I can understand how you would see what I have said as hurtful.

And what am I forgiven for? On what authority are you able to forgive me when I have not done anything wrong to you? By the way, yes, God does bless me… this is evident; but even without the blessings poured out on my life, I am still stuck to the Truth as it is declared by God.

 

[rinnie]

Actually the truth does not hurt. The truth will actually set you free. I asked you before, I will ask again. Do you or do you not believe the teaching’s of the Apostles? Yes or No? Simple question?

 

[rinnie]

Also you want to know on what authority can I forgive. Again I told you from God. God gives us Grace and by grace we are able to forgive and pray for those who say horrible thing’s about God. Again in case you forget which I do not know how you can. You keep saying that God is a liar. You said that if Jesus say’s he is God, he makes God a Liar. Those are your words. And I showed you where Jesus said he was indeed God.

Again John 10:30 The Father and I are one.

 

[rinnie]

And again all you do is quote OT Jesus fullfilled the OT. How many times do you need to be told to comprehend that. You refuse to quit taking scripture of of context. THat is why you cannot see the Light of Jesus Christ.

Did Jesus Christ replace God. No he did not. God revealed himself as Jesus Christ. He revealed himself as a man. But not in the OT in the NT. Does God making himself Man make him any more or less of being God. No it does not. God is God.

 

[rinnie]

How do you explain psalm 22. Especially when it was written 200 years before Christ was born?

How do you explain Isaiah 53:12 Because he surrendered himself to death and was counted among the wicked. And he shall take away the sins of many and win pardon for their offenses.

How do you explain ZecH 12:10 and John 19:39

Daniel 9:24-27

How do you explain the Prophecy made by Abraham of God providing a lamb of sacrifice.

Jesus Christ is the Lamb Of God who takes away the sins of the world? how do you deny all of this scripture. Old and new?

 

[simplynoone]

How do you explain psalm 22. Especially when it was written 200 years before Christ was born?

Considering the following that you wrote out Rinnie, there is no doubt in my mind who it is crying out in Psalm 22.

Well to begin with you should have the Catholic Version, if you want to discuss Catholic faith, and the catholic bible, you should begin there. YOUR version means nothing to me. We as Catholics go by the Church. You know the Catholic Church, the Living Christ, What Jesus left to us, until he comes AGAIN in glory. So thats the problem there, your version. We go by Gods Version. I suggest you spend some time alone today in your room. Asking the Holy Spirit to help you, with Grace from God to give you some Peace you desperately need. If you go to Our Lord Jesus Christ he can help you with that.But again I will pray that you some how find peace in your heart, that you are clearly in desperate need of. Then next you may want to pick up a Catholic Bible and start reading. Then you can at least have the right scripture before you try to determine it for yourself. Then you can find in there that you cannot define scripture, it must be taught to you. By the Church that GOD LEFT US. Thats your best chance at this point.

We have the Church. The Roman Catholic Church. We have the Pope. We have it all. Nothing is lacking, We have faith, we have the Pope, we have the Church the living Christ. There is nothing else left. We have the law and it is hard to keep the commandments and to show Love to people like you who try tricks, and lies. But we must love, and if we do not feel love at the moment we pray. That is again what I must do for you is pray. And I must love my those who try to persecute my God and my Church. But it is difficult. But with my Love for Jesus, it will over power any bad feeling and help me through difficult times. May our dear Lord come into your heart and show you the peace he has given me, and you so sadly seek.

From my perspective: I read all of this that you wrote Rinnie and my heart BROKE; but not for me and not for God… rather, for the Chosen of God. Have you ever heard of the term “chosenness?” It is a condition of Israel’s character and obedience to God’s commandments; it is not a bestowal of superiority, but rather a responsibility that they carry out TO God. It is to keep God in remembrance in EVERY aspect of one’s life… down to the most tedious of tasks. It is NEVER about what God can do for them, but rather it is about what they can do for God… always… every second without expecting anything in return. It is duty to God and duty to mankind regardless of the punishments of God and the hateful reproaches from mankind. It is a humble way of life… it is about accepting the bad and not just the good and doing it always with the most grateful of hearts. It is living life in thankfulness and loving the Creator as the ONLY God. It is about NEVER putting the creation of the Creator at the same status or above the Creator. The Jewish are the heart of God manifested to the world… they are what the Church has never been, could ever be, and certainly are not now. And you say your heart breaks… you do not know what breaking of the heart is when your whole heart is wrapped up in the Creator and others mock that, steal that, abuse that, and spit at it… elevating man to the position of or above God… I do not know what it is to be a part of the Jewish People and to have all that is yours stolen and dictated to you by those who are anything but humble before the Creator, before their fellow man… by those who would abuse their power and status and heap out misery on the earth… to elevate themselves to a level of superiority when that is NOT what their covenant with God is about.

I’d say Psalm 22 belongs to the true Chosen People of God; not just one of them, but as a whole People… the People that are Loved FIERCELY by their God, who called them out and chose them because they chose Him from a humble and grateful heart and were willing to carry out all the commandments of God and not just the ones that suited their desires occasionally. As individuals they may have their flaws, but as a People, NEVER has their been a more worthy of nation to be called the Son of God than Israel. You owe them a grateful heart for even existing on this planet, because if it had not been for at least a remnant consistently remaining faithful in their observing God in every aspect of their lives, the covenant with mankind would have ceased by now and you AND me would not even be here carrying out this discussion.

 

[simplynoone]

Actually the truth does not hurt. The truth will actually set you free. I asked you before, I will ask again. Do you or do you not believe the teaching’s of the Apostles? Yes or No? Simple question?

I take anything I read in the NT with a grain of salt. In fact, I am perfectly at peace with the thought of the NT being wholly detached from the Tanakh and never reading another word of it again. Though I am grateful to the teachings of Jesus, I have derived more enlightenment and understanding via the words of the Tanakh. Since I can say that much of what was attributed to the disciples teachings is not found in the Tanakh, the question you are asking is not a simple yes or no answer. Let’s just for the record and for the sake of argument establish that I am sold on the Tanakh and not the NT; the Tanakh being the same Scriptures in which Jesus was enlightened to and confirmed as well.

Also you want to know on what authority can I forgive. Again I told you from God. God gives us Grace and by grace we are able to forgive and pray for those who say horrible thing’s about God. Again in case you forget which I do not know how you can. You keep saying that God is a liar. You said that if Jesus say’s he is God, he makes God a Liar. Those are your words. And I showed you where Jesus said he was indeed God.

Again John 10:30 The Father and I are one.

I have not asked for your forgiveness as there was nothing I did to seek such a thing from you. That attitude is a “superior than thou” type attitude and one that falls flat with me. You can pray for me… but know that God does not acknowledge prayers from those who are into idolatry worship. I am perfectly capable of going to God on my own without your intervention.

I have not called God a liar. I said that if you are claiming that Jesus is God, then you are in the same token claiming that God is a liar. I have explicitly stated that I know God is not liar and therefore, I know that Jesus was not and is not God. If Jesus said that he was God, then Jesus is a liar… not God. By the way, Jesus does not say that he is God when he says that “I and my Father are one.” Any Jewish man or woman could say the same the same thing; be just as right; and not be calling themselves God.

And again all you do is quote OT Jesus fullfilled the OT. How many times do you need to be told to comprehend that. You refuse to quit taking scripture of of context. THat is why you cannot see the Light of Jesus Christ.

Did Jesus Christ replace God. No he did not. God revealed himself as Jesus Christ. He revealed himself as a man. But not in the OT in the NT. Does God making himself Man make him any more or less of being God. No it does not. God is God.

Jesus did not once say that he fulfilled the Law and the Testimony for mankind… rather he fulfilled it on his own behalf and said that anyone who did not teach others to do the same will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven; and given that he also said the Kingdom of heaven is at hand… we can conclude that the Church is the least on earth right now.

I have done more to put Scripture into context than any others in this entire thread. In fact, I have given more in way of Scriptural proof that what I am saying is supported by the Word of God. I am not looking to see things in the light of Jesus Christ… I am seeking the understanding that can only come from God (who is not Jesus).

 

[simplynoone]

How do you explain Isaiah 53:12 Because he surrendered himself to death and was counted among the wicked. And he shall take away the sins of many and win pardon for their offenses.

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

According to you AND the NT accounts, this cannot be talking about Jesus.

1. Jesus had a host of people, crowds in fact, who followed him and was not once utterly despised and rejected of all men… before, during, and after his hanging on the cross.
2. Jesus suffered much less than MANY of the Jewish people did and in fact, much less than many men/women/children who were not even Jewish. From the accounts given in the gospels he did not seem to carry much of my sorrows… I did that… me… alone… and without anyone to turn to PERIOD at times.
3. Jesus was esteemed, according to the gospels, from the time of his birth all the way up to present day status.
4. He was not smitten of God except for what… a few hours?? Take a look at THE WORDS YOU have written on this board concerning the Jewish People and their covenant with God… and that has been ongoing for the past 2,000 years. Rethink using this chapter on Jesus because if it CAN be used for Jesus, it can be used more so on the People as a whole.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

1. Jesus’ arrest had everything to do with nothing about us, the Gentiles. He did not even care for the Gentiles.
2. Their is a People to whom vs 6 does apply and is in keeping with their covenant between them and God. You deny that though.
3. Vs 7 also cannot be referring to Jesus since he did indeed open his mouth quite a bit; according to the gospel accounts. NOT JESUS… JESUS TALKED… A LOT. (just repeating in case you try to argue so I can say I was clear as I pull up all the things that Jesus said from the time of the kiss onward)

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Hello Rinnie!!! How is this not obvious to you?? He was cut off from the Land of the Living. The Land of the Living is called the Holy Land aka Israel. Israel was cut off from the Land of the Living… the Holy Land.

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Man bruised Jesus… not God. Israel, on the other hand, was bruised by the LORD. They truly had to take their place in the grave of the wicked… this is talked about in the previous chapter as well as in Jeremiah 31.

The last two verses have everything to do with everything that you deny. You can not even begin to possibly fathom it because you look to gain something for nothing. It is too profound and too beautiful for the Church to even BEGIN to understand.

Now… there ya go! the whole of the chapter in context is speaking of the People of God; the ones that you deny.

 

[simplynoone]

How do you explain ZecH 12:10 and John 19:39

One verse and you tell me that I am pulling things out of context? You are funny, I will admit.

I encourage the full read, but coupled with the content of verse 1, these are enough.

1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

THIS IS THE WORD OF THE LORD AND YES, THE WORD OF THE LORD = SON OF MAN… AND THE SON OF MAN IS THE FIRST BORN OF THE SON OF GOD AND THE SON OF GOD IS ISRAEL. Do you get it? The Word is the Son of Man (not Jesus… though Jesus had the Word in Him as well… other examples of those who had the Son of Man aka the Word… Ezekiel, Daniel, and Jeremiah) and the Word of the LORD is what was pierced… not Jesus… the Word, that was born of Israel, the Chosen People who is the firstborn Son of God.

8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.

9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

This is true as you can see… you really have had little to argue with me on in the way of Scripture; the Word of the LORD.

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me (THE Word of the LORD… what you are reading now and have been denying by your own confession… thus the “… and the world knew him not”… duh) whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn (and believe me… this IS the Truth).

 

[simplynoone]

Daniel 9:24-27

Rinnie, what does this mean… you did not say how this is a prophecy of Jesus. I would like to know why you used this Scripture reference to support Jesus as God… or Messiah or whatever you might have in mind so that I can determine what it is I will say in light of.

24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

How do you explain the Prophecy made by Abraham of God providing a lamb of sacrifice.

Jesus Christ is the Lamb Of God who takes away the sins of the world? how do you deny all of this scripture. Old and new?

Huh? Are you speaking of Abraham and his son? ERRRR… Rinnie… God sent a Ram so that Abraham did not have to sacrifice his son. It was to SPECIFICALLY show that God would never require a human sacrifice, only obedience. It was to separate Himself from the false gods that people were sacrificing humans to. ahem

the sacrificial lamb as related to passover does not even come close to being a sacrificial example of Jesus for mankind. The scapegoat is the example of the sins of a nation… but the scapegoat was sent out into the wilderness alive, not actually killed. These were pictures Rinnie… to guide us to the Truth… not just meaningless commands of God and/or sacrificial rites of a nation. He did not set these up for no reason and DOH! one day decided to replace with a whole new rearranged system that included human sacrifice. They all point to the Truth… what you choose to ignore is your guide to the Truth.

 

[rinnie]

Rinnie, what does this mean… you did not say how this is a prophecy of Jesus. I would like to know why you used this Scripture reference to support Jesus as God… or Messiah or whatever you might have in mind so that I can determine what it is I will say in light of.

24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Huh? Are you speaking of Abraham and his son? ERRRR… Rinnie… God sent a Ram so that Abraham did not have to sacrifice his son. It was to SPECIFICALLY show that God would never require a human sacrifice, only obedience. It was to separate Himself from the false gods that people were sacrificing humans to. ahem

the sacrificial lamb as related to passover does not even come close to being a sacrificial example of Jesus for mankind. The scapegoat is the example of the sins of a nation… but the scapegoat was sent out into the wilderness alive, not actually killed. These were pictures Rinnie… to guide us to the Truth… not just meaningless commands of God and/or sacrificial rites of a nation. He did not set these up for no reason and DOH! one day decided to replace with a whole new rearranged system that included human sacrifice. They all point to the Truth… what you choose to ignore is your guide to the Truth.

First of all do you not see that Jesus came and died on the cross to take away our sins, Do you not see that the reason Jesus died on the cross is because he had no sins, he was righteous but he died for ours sins.

Secondly God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son, Abraham did, but at the last moment God said no. He saw that Abraham did trust God.

Then in the NT God DID sacrifice his Son. How can you not get this. THE LAMB OF GOD WHO TAKES AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD. GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY SON.

How can you say that you cannot see how this ties scripture in together. Jesus was the leader of the Sheep. The Great shepherd.

 

[rinnie]

One verse and you tell me that I am pulling things out of context? You are funny, I will admit.

I encourage the full read, but coupled with the content of verse 1, these are enough.

1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

THIS IS THE WORD OF THE LORD AND YES, THE WORD OF THE LORD = SON OF MAN… AND THE SON OF MAN IS THE FIRST BORN OF THE SON OF GOD AND THE SON OF GOD IS ISRAEL. Do you get it? The Word is the Son of Man (not Jesus… though Jesus had the Word in Him as well… other examples of those who had the Son of Man aka the Word… Ezekiel, Daniel, and Jeremiah) and the Word of the LORD is what was pierced… not Jesus… the Word, that was born of Israel, the Chosen People who is the firstborn Son of God.

8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.

9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

This is true as you can see… you really have had little to argue with me on in the way of Scripture; the Word of the LORD.

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me (THE Word of the LORD… what you are reading now and have been denying by your own confession… thus the “… and the world knew him not”… duh) whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn (and believe me… this IS the Truth).

How can you deny this (the world knew him not, that is the Jewish people they denied Jesus, How can you say whom did they pierce. They Crucified Jesus Christ. THe only Son of God. Scripture tells you, God sent his only Son, but he was not accepted. Everything that did to him is in psalm 22, It was written for the Jewish People yes. But the Jewish People turned their back on Jesus. God knew this, he knew that you could not live the law, that is why he died for your sins, for all of our sins. THen he fulllfilled scripture.

How can you say yes he did fullfill scripture, then turn around and deny that. I do not understand you at all. You make no sense to me.

do you believe in the Apostles teachings? Of course you do not. You deny Jesus how can you not deny his teachings. You say you agree with his teachings in one breath and deny them in the next. I do not again understand you.

 

[simplynoone]

First of all do you not see that Jesus came and died on the cross to take away our sins, Do you not see that the reason Jesus died on the cross is because he had no sins, he was righteous but he died for ours sins.

Do me a favor, please. Point me to the Scripture reference where a lamb was sacrificed for the sins of a People (not person, but People as a whole). You will find the corresponding ceremony that was used as a picture for what you are saying…IF Jesus was a “lamb” for the sins of the world, you will find the sacrifice that mirrors such. They were not just for snips and grins, ya know. They were pictures to guide us to the Truth. So, point the way please.

I do not know that Jesus was without sin. I did not know him. You are taking man’s word on that… I do not. In fact, I see evidence that he admitted to not being quite so perfect. And that is perfectly fine with me. He was a man, not God.

Secondly God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son, Abraham did, but at the last moment God said no. He saw that Abraham did trust God.

Listen, sacrificing to gods with human flesh was not all that uncommon back that. So, it was not some big surprise that Abraham would have believed that God did in fact mean it wholly… the fact that God said NO and sent the ram is what makes the God of Israel SPECIAL, DIFFERENT, FAITHFUL, LOVING… and to me it is the proof that THIS is the Creator!! The Creator of Life would NEVER take pleasure in DESTROYING the Life of the most important of His Creation… man!

It is honestly nothing to me that Abraham trusted God… many a man then trusted their gods and offered their children… what is significant is that THE TRUE God did not and would not require such a thing! Ever! He was proving HIMSELF to Abraham and NOT the other way around!

Then in the NT God DID sacrifice his Son. How can you not get this. THE LAMB OF GOD WHO TAKES AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD. GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY SON.

How can you say that you cannot see how this ties scripture in together. Jesus was the leader of the Sheep. The Great shepherd.

What you say here about God is not in His Nature… it is not the character of the True Creator. It is everything that is against the God of Israel that I have come to know by His teaching via His Word. I just do not know the god that you speak of. It is not the God spoken of in the Tanakh. For Him to sacrifice the life of one man for the sins of mankind is in direct opposition to everything the Tanakh teaches concerning the Nature of God. That is the gods of paganism, not the God that I know.

By the way…

Zechariah 11:
17 Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

I’ll be awaiting the corresponding sacrificial picture that should be found in the very beginning of the Bible that corresponds with the claims that Jesus was a sacrificial lamb taking away the sins of the world. Reference will be needed of the actual instructions given by God… if Jesus was a picture of what you say, you will find the direct picture in the Torah.

 

[simplynoone]

How can you deny this (the world knew him not, that is the Jewish people they denied Jesus, How can you say whom did they pierce. They Crucified Jesus Christ. THe only Son of God. Scripture tells you, God sent his only Son, but he was not accepted. Everything that did to him is in psalm 22, It was written for the Jewish People yes. But the Jewish People turned their back on Jesus. God knew this, he knew that you could not live the law, that is why he died for your sins, for all of our sins. THen he fulllfilled scripture.

I am going to show you where you are losing me concerning your lack of reasoning… I will correspond the colors with the corrections that I make for you.

So, now the world is to be equated to the Jewish only and not mankind? According to Rinnie: the world, when used in positive light or in light of gaining something for little to nothing is referring to mankind. The World, when used in negative light and speaking of disobedience and rejections, is referring to the Jewish people; and NOT mankind.

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Jesus was not pierced by the Jewish… in fact, IF he was pierced, it was by the Roman guards (the Gentiles). This clearly says that it was the Jewish who pierced his (the only son of the Jewish… not God) son… the Son of Man is the Word of God… God’s gorgeous Nature manifested through personal one on one experience between God and the Jewish resulting in the Son of Man… the Word of the Lord… THAT is what was pierced. THAT was the firstborn son of Israel… the Word. Now, this is the understanding that I have been given… regardless, it is not speaking of Jesus since it was the Gentiles that mocked, beat, crucified, and pierced Jesus.

Matthew 20:
19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him:

And that is according to the NT! Don’t be so quick in rushing to judge the sins of others!

Hosea 11:1 and Exodus 4:22, 23… that is clear as to who the first born Son of God is. And in Isaiah, we are clearly told that His counsel WILL stand and in Malachi 3:6 We are told that He will NOT change. You are certainly rejecting the Son of God… and rather taking one, lifting him up, and worshiping him as though he were God.

And as for the last part, I do not think the Jewish would reject one of their own… but they certainly MUST, in keeping with the commands handed by God to their People, not allow for idolatry worship… or the blaspheming of a man calling himself God. Gentiles are the ones who are separating Jesus from his People unfairly. That is not the fault of the Jewish.

 

[simplynoone]

THen he fulllfilled scripture.

How can you say yes he did fullfill scripture, then turn around and deny that. I do not understand you at all. You make no sense to me.

Of course it makes little sense to you because you have been given over the power of suggestion which is to say… mysticism. Magic is not hocus pocus, but rather the art of illusion. Here is the ONLY reference that Jesus, from his own mouth, said he fulfilled anything.

Matthew 5:17-19

Now, where in there does he say he fulfilled it for mankind? You were told that and you believed it… but you can clearly see that he was saying that does not negate anyone else from fulfilling their own duty to the Law and the Testimony. Remember though, the commands to mankind in general are pretty much common sense… the 610+ Laws are given specifically to Israel… the firstborn Son of God. Theirs is a yoke for the sake of mankind (though, I do not perceive it as a yoke, but rather beautiful expressions of their love for GOD, THE ONLY GOD, THE CREATOR so that His heart could be manifested to the world).

So, Jesus DID fulfill HIS duty to God via the Law and Testimony… but that does not negate mankind from fulfilling their VERY light duty to the Law and it does not negate the Jewish from keeping God in remembrance in everything they do.

do you believe in the Apostles teachings? Of course you do not. You deny Jesus how can you not deny his teachings.

Jesus and the Apostles, if they were truly Jews, would never have taught that a man is God or elevated above the rest to a status of being worshiped. Never… it is everything against the Nature of God that is given in the Word of God, that being the Tanakh… what you refer to as Old. If it is Old, then God changed and thus, you are saying you believe God is a liar. I am not the inconsistent one here Rinnie. I do not believe that God is a liar… I filter the NT through the Tanakh rather than the other way around. It is the Tanakh that gives us the clear picture of the Nature of God and THAT is the firstborn Son (of Man) that was birthed via the Jewish people, who is the First born Son of God.

You say you agree with his teachings in one breath and deny them in the next. I do not again understand you.

I agree with his teachings and I deny that he is God… because God is not a man… and Jesus DID confirm this in his teachings. So, really, Nature of Reason says that you deny his teachings AND the Son of Man (aka the Word of God… the revealing of God’s Nature in the Tanakh) in exchange for the image that you assume will get you something for nothing… because that is what the Christian faith is based on… nothing.

 

[rinnie]

Of course it makes little sense to you because you have been given over the power of suggestion which is to say… mysticism. Magic is not hocus pocus, but rather the art of illusion. Here is the ONLY reference that Jesus, from his own mouth, said he fulfilled anything.

Matthew 5:17-19

Now, where in there does he say he fulfilled it for mankind? You were told that and you believed it… but you can clearly see that he was saying that does not negate anyone else from fulfilling their own duty to the Law and the Testimony. Remember though, the commands to mankind in general are pretty much common sense… the 610+ Laws are given specifically to Israel… the firstborn Son of God. Theirs is a yoke for the sake of mankind (though, I do not perceive it as a yoke, but rather beautiful expressions of their love for GOD, THE ONLY GOD, THE CREATOR so that His heart could be manifested to the world).

So, Jesus DID fulfill HIS duty to God via the Law and Testimony… but that does not negate mankind from fulfilling their VERY light duty to the Law and it does not negate the Jewish from keeping God in remembrance in everything they do.

Jesus and the Apostles, if they were truly Jews, would never have taught that a man is God or elevated above the rest to a status of being worshiped. Never… it is everything against the Nature of God that is given in the Word of God, that being the Tanakh… what you refer to as Old. If it is Old, then God changed and thus, you are saying you believe God is a liar. I am not the inconsistent one here Rinnie. I do not believe that God is a liar… I filter the NT through the Tanakh rather than the other way around. It is the Tanakh that gives us the clear picture of the Nature of God and THAT is the firstborn Son (of Man) that was birthed via the Jewish people, who is the First born Son of God.

I agree with his teachings and I deny that he is God… because God is not a man… and Jesus DID confirm this in his teachings. So, really, Nature of Reason says that you deny his teachings AND the Son of Man (aka the Word of God… the revealing of God’s Nature in the Tanakh) in exchange for the image that you assume will get you something for nothing… because that is what the Christian faith is based on… nothing.

 

[rinnie]

I wish you would have let me know that you believe that our Christian faith was based on nothing in the beginning. I as sorry that you feel that way, and I can see that you were never hear to learn, only mock my faith. May you find peace in your life. And may our Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on your soul. I will pray that you find the peace you are seeking.

 

[simplynoone]

I wish you would have let me know that you believe that our Christian faith was based on nothing in the beginning. I as sorry that you feel that way, and I can see that you were never hear to learn, only mock my faith. May you find peace in your life. And may our Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on your soul. I will pray that you find the peace you are seeking.

Well, I HAVE asked time and again for someone… ANYONE to show me where it is they are basing their faith because I do not see it in the Tanakh. I have asked you even just a couple of posts up to show me the sacrificial rite that can be compared to Jesus as a lamb taking away the sins of mankind because I can not find it. I am by no means an expert on the Jewish sacrificial rites and so, if it is there, then point it out to me. So, to say that I am here to make fun of you is quite false… rather I am being honest in what I see thus far, as have you (which I appreciate). FYI… I was quite grateful that SOMEONE on here was taking the time to discuss this with me.

Also the assumption that I am not here to learn is and never will be true. I have learned much from our discussion… I am just being honest. If I can not be honest, then it will not benefit me at all. Again, I learn more from opposition than I do in discussions with others I agree with. This is why I am here. You have thrown out your non-sugar-coated honest opinions of me and my beliefs and it hardly offends me. I have appreciated that you feel comfortable enough to be honest with me… but, if my honest opinions offend you, then I understand you not wanting to continue. I will admit to being disappointed that I will not be hearing your answer to the sacrificial lamb question I asked. Oh… had also been curious how it was that you view Jesus to be a fulfillment of Daniel 9… so, I have shown interest in your views.