You darn right it is. Tell me simply what have you done. I give, My husband and kids do for the Church when asked. We give money every sunday and work to help. We donate time, prayers. food. and money. It may not solve everything but I know it helps. How about you? What do you do for your God?
Rinnie, I did not ask what it was YOU did to help. YOU are not being called into question; your claim that the Church is where God reveals Himself is. Only rarely is it that I wonder about the hearts of the individual… though I was here for a bit on this forum. Now, I realize that it is what I present and the questions I ask that upset others. Understand, they are not personal… they are sincere questions.
But when it is within my ability to help monetarily or even just being there for someone who needs to vent frustrations, I give what I have left over. Not to mention, my parents asked us (their children) for our support and understanding to go live in Zambia to help the people there. So, we have given up something VERY valuable to us… the quickly passing time of being with our dear parents (as well as our children not having them close by as most have their grandparents). It is not a matter of it being an obligation though… it is a matter of being grateful that the same help has been afforded to me MANY times over!!** rinnie, that is good. What you are doing is good. You have good heart and good intentions and you do good practically. i admire you.
So if you and I both write a letter to someone, saying that we’d like to come and visit them, it is clear that the same person authored it?I know how to read and absorb what it is I am reading. I also have a very keen eye for making connections where others have failed to do so. The style of writing is too similar; so similar in fact that the writer gives himself away as being one in the same with the writer of the letters attributed to Paul.
Okay, so in other words, you disagree. Understood. By the way, ahem my IQ: 148 (and was tested during a week of little sleep… imagine), just so you know that at least one person with an IQ well over room temperature can see that it is the same writer. I am sure that you will be fine just that we are in disagreement here.So if you and I both write a letter to someone, saying that we’d like to come and visit them, it is clear that the same person authored it?
I too know “how to read and absorb what it is I am reading”. And as opposed to you, I can read the NT part of Scripture in the original language. The Pauline and Johannine letters do not have much in common, and I repeat: As far as I know, NO theologian has claimed that the Johannine letters are in fact Pauline instead.
You may have a “very keen eye for making connections where others have failed to do so”. The 9/11-conspiracy theorists would claim the same thing about themselves, and yet no one (with an IQ above room temperature measured in Celcius) takes them seriously.
I too can make some connections, and then claim that I have found the proverbial El Dorado; but that wouldn’t make it any more true.
Hypothetical: if the Church sold all that it had, if that was possible, and gave it to the poor, would there still be hunger and poverty in the future?
I don’t think when I die and meet God he is going to ask me what my Church did for others.All though I could and would defend the good Catholic Church’s do all over. Jesus will ask what did you do. Whatsoever you do for the least of my brothers that you do unto me.Rinnie, I did not ask what it was YOU did to help. YOU are not being called into question; your claim that the Church is where God reveals Himself is. Only rarely is it that I wonder about the hearts of the individual… though I was here for a bit on this forum. Now, I realize that it is what I present and the questions I ask that upset others. Understand, they are not personal… they are sincere questions.
Firstly, to answer your question so as not to escape your scrutiny, I am a single mother w/ little to no support from the father… thus, what I bring in and my time are first obligated to my family.
What I was asking had little to do with you as a person, though. I have no reason to doubt that you do what is within your means in order to help others out. But the church has MUCH in their means… they may throw out money here and there for image sake, but just looking that RCC it is quite evident that they are not doing ALL THAT IS WITHIN their means to be representative of God to mankind here on earth via alleviating much of the suffering here on earth that is soooo avoidable should greed be set aside. Am I being more clear where it is I am directing my question to and why it is I even am questioning?
And again such a foolish response. I don’t care if we had more food then anyone could eat. You could never reconcile the world with food, or money. That is exactly how they saw it in the OT too. That is why Jesus threw them out of the temple, making his fathers house a marketplace. No you are again so far off. We NEED CHRIST TO HELP RECONCILE THE WORLD. Not food, money, etc. Christ will and has taken care of us. All we have to do is believe. Faith really does move mountains. I am sorry you do not believe that. But you are not alone, many in this country think that way also, thats why this country is what it is. They think money is everything. But they are learning.O…k… thank you for clearing the confusion right up concerning where it is the foundation is for you guys… the Church’s mouth. Actually, this is the clearest answer I have seen from you.
I am curious as to why you would be sorry for me. My life has only been enriched by the Word that is spoken in the Tanakh. Wouldn’t you be better placing that pity toward people who really need it? Maybe say… the starving children in the world… the Church surely has more than enough wealth to help take care of those in need in the world while it is waiting on Christ to reconcile the world together. I am betting the resources and power available to the Church is enough that if it really cared to do good, it would not even NEED Christ to help reconcile the world, don’t you think? I wonder how the little kiddies that my parents are helping to feed in Zambia would feel about the Church and that wealth they sit on top of as they reveal to its followers the reconciliation of the world. I’ll have to make it a point to ask when I get the opportunity.
The Church can NOT help the poor because they are poor themselves. The church CAN help the starving, yes, because they have it within their means to do so; both power wise and in wealth.
Yet the Church has done more for education than any other group. the Church has done a great deal to spread the Good News of Jesus Christ, and can and will do more.The Church can NOT help the poor because they are poor themselves. The church CAN help the starving, yes, because they have it within their means to do so; both power wise and in wealth.
You and I look at being poor differently. Being poor to me is lacking in the knowledge and Wisdom of God. Those that are starving to death… that is what I am speaking of. And since the Church’s influence is so widely spread, I think it matters little if they sell it all… they still have it w/in their means to give FAR more than a few photo ops to help those who are STARVING… lacking food which is a necessity for people to live. They could help to stop the destruction of the planet… they could help in many areas that they just really are rather apathetic about.
Whether they can do it all, that will not be known until they actually start doing all that they can now with what they have in their means to do.
Do you not realize that by condemming the Church you are condemming Jesus Christ. You cannot separate Jesus from his Church. If being rich is having and spreading the fullness of the truth. Yes you are correct the Church is Rich. The Richest in the world. The Church does not destruct the planet that comes from Man.The Church can NOT help the poor because they are poor themselves. The church CAN help the starving, yes, because they have it within their means to do so; both power wise and in wealth.
You and I look at being poor differently. Being poor to me is lacking in the knowledge and Wisdom of God. Those that are starving to death… that is what I am speaking of. And since the Church’s influence is so widely spread, I think it matters little if they sell it all… they still have it w/in their means to give FAR more than a few photo ops to help those who are STARVING… lacking food which is a necessity for people to live. They could help to stop the destruction of the planet… they could help in many areas that they just really are rather apathetic about.
Whether they can do it all, that will not be known until they actually start doing all that they can now with what they have in their means to do.
You are most likely right about this! (not sure why this would be a bragging point though).And here is where our main difference of concern is located. You say souls are more important… which in your mind is to mean where they go when they die.
Ah, but you have created a false separation. If you are truly living in a way that will get you to heaven, everything else will work iteself out. A man who helps others does exprience the world in a different way. To be the servent of those in need casts a new light upon the world. The problems in the world today are caused by selfish people who see hedonism in some form as better than self sacrifice. That is the problem.
And here is where our main difference of concern is located. You say souls are more important… which in your mind is to mean where they go when they die.
I DO NOT UNDERSTAND THIS MENTALITY!!!
God created this!! This IS His Creation!! This is where Life is found!! Go stand outside in a quiet place (if you can find one) and LISTEN TO, SMELL, SEE, AND FEEL LIFE because when you are dead you WILL NOT have that opportunity again! You are wasting it and the Church is teaching others to waste it as well!!
The Church is racking up coffins, not souls. They are alive NOW and even Jesus teaches us this same concept. The Kingdom of Heaven IS AT HAND. This means what is before you to do, do it. The Church has MUCH before it to do in the way of helping mankind… maybe they can NOT do it all, but they are not even giving it their best effort.
LIFE IS NOW and whether it is heaven or hell is up to us… right now, one of the biggest influences in determining this is the Church.
How does one condemn another who is already dead? This does not make sense. If you mean that, that the Church cannot be separated from Jesus Christ, then LOGIC says you are condemning the Church. After all, Jesus, being a man, was subject to the Laws of Nature and died and basically this means that the Church is bound to death. I will not argue that at all.
And thank you for using your superior mind to ignore what I wrote. It is living life for others that we can truly enjoy life. I do not know what that is so hard to understand.Honestly, He speaks it best for Himself. The concept of worrying about souls in regards to Life is silly. He makes His intentions quite clear and it was the main writer of the NT who set all this confusion into motion. You are caught in a web of destruction, Church supporters.
Genesis 1:1
In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth. (by the way, the heaven is not referring to what it is you refer to as heaven).
Isaiah 45:
8Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.
9Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?
10Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?
11Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
12I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
17But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
18For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
19I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.
Isaiah 48:
7They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them.
Jeremiah 31:
21Set thee up waymarks, make thee high heaps: set thine heart toward the highway, even the way which thou wentest: turn again, O virgin of Israel, turn again to these thy cities.
22How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man.
23Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; As yet they shall use this speech in the land of Judah and in the cities thereof, when I shall bring again their captivity; The LORD bless thee, O habitation of justice, and mountain of holiness.
Following the Creator … or … Following the Church.
hmmmm… I’m gonna go with the Creator here. The Creator’s Ways are much nicer and understandable to me. They speak of Life and not death.
As I said, I do NOT have the mind that you all do. I like using mine and in so doing, I am of the conclusion that it was not given without a purpose. Good luck in your quest for… uh, death?
You answer me how does one condemn another who is already dead? You are the one who seems to be doing it. How could I condemn my Church by saying my Church is the living Christ. Jesus is a man Human And Divine. Jesus did not just die on the cross he took away death. There is no death. Jesus was not subject to anything. God is not subject to anything. The Church will never die. The Church was here since Jesus and will remain here until he comes again in glory. I understand you do not know our faith, but please do not try to teach something you cannot comprehend.
By the way, the Church is wealthy… not rich. But at what cost has all that material wealth come by? Have you ever really thought about it? I have and the answer I arrived at was that the cost came by the loss of life to all they deceive. They are selling life to gain all of that.