Paul Corrupted/Created Christianity

[simplynoone]

I have seen what your visions have taken you. You say that Paul ordained himself, it did not come from God, You continue to contradict scripture. Did you not? God know us by our fruits. You have showed me sour grapes

Did you see that even the Jewish faith do not agree with you. They agree with the teaching’s of Paul.

So again on who’s authority do you speak of, Scripture proves that Paul was given the Power of the Holy Spirit,

Judaism does NOT agree with Paul… you are speaking of Messianic Jews and I disagree with them if they say that Paul does not contradict their Scriptures as I have continued to show that he does. I have not seen any claims though, and certainly none that say they agree that Jesus is God… that is only based on your word that they have said that AND agree with Paul. I have seen quite the opposite. I asked for you to send me a link to these claims so I could see them for myself.

 

[simplynoone]

No I am sorry God gave the laws the ten commandments. Again where did Paul teach us to disobey them?

Rinnie… the 10 commandments were for the Jewish… the 7 Noahide Laws are for the Gentiles. We, the Gentiles were never even ordered to keep Sabbath. That was strictly a command to the Jewish.

So, this is where Paul has tricked many. Using their ignorance of the Laws of God handed to the Jewish in order to guilt them and maintain control over them whilst defiling the sanctity of the covenant between God and the Jewish. You do not even show basic understanding of Torah, so it is no wonder that you do not understand what I am clearly showing you… Paul was not ordained by Jesus and/or God to take these things to the Gentiles… else, he would not have contradicted them so.

 

[simplynoone]

So again on who’s authority do you speak of, Scripture proves that Paul was given the Power of the Holy Spirit,

I am not claiming any one’s authority Rinnie. Again, the OP laid out a challenge and I accepted based on what is there in front of me. I do not have to claim any authority to be able to see with my own two eyes that what is written in the Epistles of Paul contradicts the teachings of Jesus and the Word of God. I am not making it up and have been putting the references in front of you. You said that you would discuss these things with me and yet are refusing and opting instead to throw out things not even pertaining to the matter.

I am wrong… I get that you believe that. Now, using Scripture… show me how.

How about this, show me in this passage where it is said that for a wicked person to save their soul alive, they must have faith in God as a man who died for them and was resurrected… I will highlight what I see the conditions to be… you highlight what Paul is claiming and others in the NT are claiming to be the conditions; that is accepting a man who is God as their savior and having faith that he died for their sins. .

Ezek 18:20-28
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
Yet ye say, The way of the LORD is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Surely, how can you improve upon that plan… and if you can, where does he state this considering this is one of the latter testimonies of the prophets.

 

[rinnie]

I am not just pulling the claim out of thin air though, Rinnie. Who wrote Ephesians because in Ephesians it says,

Eph 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

The writer of Ephesians said it… NOT ME!!! How is this MY fault? I am only asking how you are reconciling it when God said that they were perfect and eternal. Jesus said that anyone who breaks them or teaches others to break them is the least in the kingdom. THAT IS GOD AND JESUS speaking against Paul who claimed that they were abolished… NOT ME!!

What because there was a wall between the Jews and the gentiles. Jesus abolished this law by fulfilling it once and for all on the cross? Because Jesus Christ reconciled them both with the father?

 

[simplynoone]

And I have told you time after time what law are you talking about. Paul never broke one of the ten commandments, THose were the laws of God. You are speaking of the law or traditions of Man, not of God. Again please show me one commandment that Paul broke. I asked you before. Again not the laws of tradition of man. Gods laws.

Paul was rewriting the conditions of the covenant between Israel and God, Rinnie. I almost agree with you, except instead of the 10 commandments being for the Gentiles, it was the 7 Noahide Laws. Do these and you are a righteous Gentile. Nothing more, nothing less. Paul was preaching the covenant Laws as though they applied to all and they only apply to Israel. they STILL DO!!! The covenant still remains between Israel and God and if we want to be a part of that, we STILL HAVE to take part as it was set up by God and not by Paul.

You are not part of the covenant between God and Israel. This does not mean that you are not righteous so long as you are obeying the Law of God given to the Jewish for the Gentiles… which contain 7 commands, not 10. It is that simple. God is THAT capable of setting up something like this without having to sacrifice a human. Sacrifices were simply to make the people feel closer to God, but NEVER WILL you find it written in the list of acceptable sacrifices that can be offered to God a human being. It is not there because it is not acceptable to God. If it is acceptable, then you will find it written on the list of acceptable sacrifices.

Albert Einstein wisely said… God may be subtle, but He is NOT malicious. His ways are not malicious. Human Sacrifice is barbaric… it is horribly wrong and God used Abraham and his son Isaac to show that He, God, would NEVER ask for the sacrificing of a human.

 

[rinnie]

Paul was rewriting the conditions of the covenant between Israel and God, Rinnie. I almost agree with you, except instead of the 10 commandments being for the Gentiles, it was the 7 Noahide Laws. Do these and you are a righteous Gentile. Nothing more, nothing less. Paul was preaching the covenant Laws as though they applied to all and they only apply to Israel. they STILL DO!!! The covenant still remains between Israel and God and if we want to be a part of that, we STILL HAVE to take part as it was set up by God and not by Paul.

You are not part of the covenant between God and Israel. This does not mean that you are not righteous so long as you are obeying the Law of God given to the Jewish for the Gentiles… which contain 7 commands, not 10. It is that simple. God is THAT capable of setting up something like this without having to sacrifice a human. Sacrifices were simply to make the people feel closer to God, but NEVER WILL you find it written in the list of acceptable sacrifices that can be offered to God a human being. It is not there because it is not acceptable to God. If it is acceptable, then you will find it written on the list of acceptable sacrifices.

Albert Einstein wisely said… God may be subtle, but He is NOT malicious. His ways are not malicious. Human Sacrifice is barbaric… it is horribly wrong and God used Abraham and his son Isaac to show that He, God, would NEVER ask for the sacrificing of a human.

No you are wrong. We as gentiles still have to obey the ten commandments. ALL of them. The Mosaic Law gave the Jews privileged status and separated them from the gentiles. Jesus abolished the Law by fulfilling it. Once and for all. That is what Paul was trying to tell you. Jesus did abolish the law, but he had to fulfill it first. Do you not understand that Jesus was the second Adam. The first race of the first Adam was corrupted with sin, the first Adam died in the crucifixion. This New Adam has been created in the goodness and the truth. He is unique because in him the boudaries between any one group and the rest of the human race all disappear. The one Body is both the physical body of Jesus that was sacrificed on the cross and the CHURCH or MYSTICAL BODY of CHRIST which once they are reconciled all the parts frunction in their own places 1 Col: 12:12.

So do you see Paul did not lie to you Jesus did abolish the law by fulfilling it, You just do not understand that when Jesus said it did not come to abolish it he did mean that, And he did fulfill it. By fulfilling it he then abolished it!

The N.T. prophets together with the apostles are the witnes to whom the divine plan was first revealed and who were the first to preach the good news. That is why THE CHURCH as well as being founded on CHRIST is also said to be founded on THEM!

Does that help at all?

 

[rinnie]

Do you not see that Jesus had to die on the cross to fulfill scripture. Go back to psalms now and read them. You also do not understand People are born Jewish or Gentiles but in order to become a Christian or messianic you must be born anew. the new birth comes through putting your faith in Jesus CHrist the Messiah.

 

[simplynoone]

What because there was a wall between the Jews and the gentiles. Jesus abolished this law by fulfilling it once and for all on the cross? Because Jesus Christ reconciled them both with the father?

Perhaps this is the most direct answer yet. Thank you. Now, having said this, where do you see this spoken of in the prophecies. Here is what I see…

Isa 56:1-8
Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
The Lord GOD, which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

This last part, the strangers, is what it is that applies to the Gentiles.

The conditions I see:

1. Join themselves to the LORD
2. Serve him
3. Love the name of the LORD
4. Keep the sabbath from polluting it
5. Take hold of HIS covenant (outlined in Jeremiah 31… and though He will write the Laws on the heart, He does not say that He is setting up anything to do away with them… they will still stand)

Then what? He will bring them into His holy mountain (not heaven)
Make joyful in His house of prayer
Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted (so, obviously sacrifices have not been utterly cast out)

What I do not see:

1. God coming in the flesh
2. Faith in the sacrifice of a man
3. A resurrection
4. The tossing out of the the Laws
5. A covenant as outlined by Paul

These are the conditions… they are clear. They need not be interpreted or revealed by man… God said so in Proverbs 2:1-7… follow those conditions and He will give you understanding and knowledge FROM HIS MOUTH!

Jeremiah 17: 5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

 

[hyflyer64]

Curiouser and Curiouser. Can you show me what it is you are replying to? I do not refer to it as OT and if I did, it was purely from being in a state of astonishment and failing to realize my mistake. I have posted quite a bit on this thread and so to have me guessing what it IS you are responding to is pointless… just tell me so I can respond to what you brought forth.

I was responding to your earliest posts stating that JESUS was not to be found in he OT.
You were correct. The name “Jesus” as it applies to “Jesus Christ” came later in the translations of the NT.
CHRIST the Messiah!!??

I also ran across this from you in an earlier post to “rinnie”;
“It is hard for me to put into words what it is that is on my heart… I do hope you understand.”
This is how many of us feel about our faith. I do hope YOU understand.
If we all believe in a “loving GOD”, then we can feel secure that he will not turn us away as we attempt to find our way to HIM. I don’t believe that a “loving GOD” will care much if I do not know the OT or much about the NT, so long as I do follow HIS commandments. And so what if I follow a couple more than I have to?? It appears to me that we are all discussing the same GOD.

 

[rinnie]

Perhaps this is the most direct answer yet. Thank you. Now, having said this, where do you see this spoken of in the prophecies. Here is what I see…

Isa 56:1-8
Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
The Lord GOD, which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

This last part, the strangers, is what it is that applies to the Gentiles.

The conditions I see:

1. Join themselves to the LORD
2. Serve him
3. Love the name of the LORD
4. Keep the sabbath from polluting it
5. Take hold of HIS covenant (outlined in Jeremiah 31… and though He will write the Laws on the heart, He does not say that He is setting up anything to do away with them… they will still stand)

Then what? He will bring them into His holy mountain (not heaven)
Make joyful in His house of prayer
Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted (so, obviously sacrifices have not been utterly cast out)

What I do not see:

1. God coming in the flesh
2. Faith in the sacrifice of a man
3. A resurrection
4. The tossing out of the the Laws
5. A covenant as outlined by Paul

These are the conditions… they are clear. They need not be interpreted or revealed by man… God said so in Proverbs 2:1-7… follow those conditions and He will give you understanding and knowledge FROM HIS MOUTH!

Jeremiah 17: 5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

Why can you not understand that in the OT God did not yet reveal himself as Man. Not until the N.T. Please read what the O.T. says about the Messiah. I promise you Jesus does every single thing that is said.

 

[simplynoone]

No you are wrong. We as gentiles still have to obey the ten commandments. ALL of them. The Mosaic Law gave the Jews privileged status and separated them from the gentiles.

No, it did not give them status in the way that you are viewing it Rinnie. God clearly said that He chose them because they were the least on the earth to make them great so that they would be an ensign for the rest of us for our benefit. God does not love them MORE than the rest of us who seek Him (and not the teachings of men), He just loves them differently. We all came from the same Creator… but they were to be the signing on the dotted line of the covenant that God made with mankind. They were to be taught firsthand the judgments of God… this was a responsibility. This meant they had to endure the chastisements of God unlike any other nation has. Though all other nations have rebelled against God, NONE have been dealt so severely by God as has Israel. That DESERVES a special kind of love, no? They rebelled, they were punished… rebelled, punished… rebelled, punished… but how great is it that God would always bring them back to Him. AND GOD PUT THEM THROUGH THAT FOR MANKIND… SO that we too could fall in love with Him through them.

And yet, it is rejected for what is perceived as the easy way out. IN the testimonies it speaks of how God was going to let this happen… this long period of Israel being cast away and allowing the other nations to claim and inhabit what is theirs… but here is what happens next… God is going to draw them back and this time will be unlike all the other times… because this time they have suffered greatly and have been cast away for so long from God… yet, there is that faithful remnant who have not erred from the ways of God all these years! I am happy to think about this. I am glad to know that I can trust God will do this for them and I am only thankful that I am being given the opportunity to witness it… as I will be. I do not know how I got to this place, but I am here and able to understand that intense love He has for them… and I feel that intense love He has for me even though I am not Jewish… but He has given me an opportunity to cling to them because I did not settle for man’s interpretations… I waited on Him and understood that it was the Word of God where Beauty is found… just as is states in Zechariah 11. I do not see how God could have set up a more perfect plan than the one He set forth into motion. It is not found in the NT, but rather in the Tanakh. And I see it happening in front of my eyes… because I am aware and again, not settling for man’s interpretations. Jeremiah 17: 5, CURSED BE THE MAN THAT TRUSTETH IN MAN. You admitted who it is you trust in Rinnie. I can not teach you the ways of God… I DO ADMIT to not having that authority and so, no… I do not expect anyone here to take my word for it, but it is clear in what it says on its own, no?

 

[simplynoone]

Why can you not understand that in the OT God did not yet reveal himself as Man. Not until the N.T. Please read what the O.T. says about the Messiah. I promise you Jesus does every single thing that is said.

Anyone can come in and write a story claiming that so and so fulfilled this or that… but when God does His work… it is complete and whole and it is done for all to see so that credit does not go to anyone BUT God. He says this in fact.

Isaiah 43:
8 Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears.
9 Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth.
10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.
13 Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?

raises hand … I will declare what it is written out clearly so that God will do His great work!

So, here, Rinnie… this is a link to a thread that was posted up by someone on here showing verses taken out of context and claiming Jesus as the fulfillment of prophecies… it is a few pages long, but I have gone through and put them back into the their context and have shown that God declared it Himself quite well!

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=315812

I only share because you act as though I have never actually bothered to consider these things.

 

[rinnie]

Anyone can come in and write a story claiming that so and so fulfilled this or that… but when God does His work… it is complete and whole and it is done for all to see so that credit does not go to anyone BUT God. He says this in fact.

Isaiah 43:
8 Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears.
9 Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth.
10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.
13 Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?

raises hand … I will declare what it is written out clearly so that God will do His great work!

So, here, Rinnie… this is a link to a thread that was posted up by someone on here showing verses taken out of context and claiming Jesus as the fulfillment of prophecies… it is a few pages long, but I have gone through and put them back into the their context and have shown that God declared it Himself quite well!

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=315812

I only share because you act as though I have never actually bothered to consider these things.

If you can say that anyone can fulfill what Jesus CHrist did on the cross and through scripture, then why has it never happened since?. I do not know who you follow but I can see it is not the Catholic, Protestant or the Jewish Faith, I guess it is your own faith. I wish I had the words to help you, but honestly Im exhaused. I will continue to pray for you, and light a candle for you in Church tommorow. For now Good night and God Bless.

 

[simplynoone]

If you can say that anyone can fulfill what Jesus CHrist did on the cross and through scripture, then why has it never happened since?. I do not know who you follow but I can see it is not the Catholic, Protestant or the Jewish Faith, I guess it is your own faith. I wish I had the words to help you, but honestly Im exhaused. I will continue to pray for you, and light a candle for you in Church tommorow. For now Good night and God Bless.

I am unsure of where the prophecy that claims a man in the form of God would be crucified on a cross for the sins of mankind. If you will point it out, I will consider it… I just have never seen such a thing in all of the Tanakh. And many Jews were crucified and for much longer periods of time than Jesus.

And thank you Rinnie. I hope you have a great night. Thanks for the discussion.

 

[simplynoone]

I could be wrong but I believe that few Saints were students of the Testaments. They did not need proofs. They had ( here’s tha word again ) FAITH! Unforunately, not all receive the gift of faith.

I never really found faith to be a gift really. I personally want to know and that is not wrong no matter how hard you try to convince me it is. It is not worthy of eternal damnation to want to know the Truth rather than guessing. If your faith REALLY is the so great as you claim, than take hold of mark 16: 17-19… all of it… and let me know how that works out for you (or rather, in case, have someone else be able to let me know). There were no stipulations put on it except that THOSE WHO BELIEVE, these signs WILL follow them. If you do not take hold of that, then do not throw the faith card at me because I have never claimed faith to be a good thing. I take hold of the promises in the Tanakh that uphold and cherish knowledge. Hosea 4:6… in there, God says that His people perish because of their lack of knowledge… not because of their lack of faith. I have had God keep ALL of His promises since I have given up faith to seek His knowledge. How could I desire ignorance over knowledge?

 

[simplynoone]

If you will not accept the N.T. and the O.T. There is nothing out there to help you. The Messianic Jews do claim it. they are comming more and more to God everyday. They have believed since Jesus.

I want everyone to see this web site, It is wonderful.
It is called Jewishvoice.org

Please go there, read it, then somehow you can see how mixed up you are. I truely hope this can help you, and not confuse you more then what you are. You are talking is so many circles I am dizzy I tell you. GOd be with you, and I pray you can find the truth you are seeking, But I will tell you now you will only find the FULLNESS OF THE TRUTH IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. THE CHURCH THAT PAUL SPOKE OF AND THE APOSTLES.

:imsorry: Geesh! That is sad, Rinnie. I almost wish I had not asked to see that.

jewishvoice.org/site/PageServer?pagename=objections_New_Testament

His first claim there is wrong and that IS sad considering you would think he, claiming to be Jewish, would know.

Matthew 1: 6-11 should be compared to I Chr. 3:10-16… please, do the homework and come back to list out the four names that are missing. That alone is enough to show his first claim wrong…

I do not even want to go into the pathetic job he does to explain the Egypt mystery in Matthew. It is too sad for as I had suspected, frustrations have given way to fitting into prophecy anything that shows that God still loves them… what is sad is God still does… He even admits that it is a play on words.

If Israel = Jesus AT ALL in Hosea 11:1… then read through Hosea substituting Jesus in every time you see Israel. It is not a pretty picture of the claimed messiah/son of God/God in the form of man. Not so perfect and neither are those who are born via him. If you are going to use that verse and insert your own choice of name, you MUST be consistent and use that name throughout the whole of the book and if you do that, you can no longer claim that Jesus is perfect OR God.

Edited to add: and what you say, “they are coming more and more to God everyday”… I do not even have the words to express how that makes me feel… Seriously, to think that they, God’s chosen, being drawn away from their God is a good thing… I feel quite ill (physically) having seen this.

 

[simplynoone]

sighs

I will admit before I put this down that I am hard pressed to get even the Jewish to see what it is that has become SO clear to me (though, I do not think this has been counted out yet altogether)…

I noticed that they use Habakkuk 2:4 as part of the grace claim to prophecy…

Here is what Habakkuk 2:4 says in its full context…

4Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

5Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, he is a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and is as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people:

6Shall not all these take up a parable against him, and a taunting proverb against him, and say, Woe to him that increaseth that which is not his! how long? and to him that ladeth himself with thick clay!

7Shall they not rise up suddenly that shall bite thee, and awake that shall vex thee, and thou shalt be for booties unto them?

8Because thou hast spoiled many nations, all the remnant of the people shall spoil thee; because of men’s blood, and for the violence of the land, of the city, and of all that dwell therein.

9Woe to him that coveteth an evil covetousness to his house, that he may set his nest on high, that he may be delivered from the power of evil!

10Thou hast consulted shame to thy house by cutting off many people, and hast sinned against thy soul.

The one in whom this is talking about is NOT BEING PUT IN A GOOD LIGHT!!!

There is ONLY ONE MAN who has used this phrase “the just shall by faith” over and over… that is Paul. This is clearly a warning that can be seen more clearly when looking at the first chapter. This is not condoning… this is WARNING!!! And clearly… .it is my greatest prayer that they will see this. If they do not and this understanding of it was brought to my attention by sheer coincidence, then so be it… but the fact remains… this person being spoken of is NOT being spoken of in a good light.

 

[rinnie]

I am unsure of where the prophecy that claims a man in the form of God would be crucified on a cross for the sins of mankind. If you will point it out, I will consider it… I just have never seen such a thing in all of the Tanakh. And many Jews were crucified and for much longer periods of time than Jesus.

And thank you Rinnie. I hope you have a great night. Thanks for the discussion.

Okay I really doubt you will consider this from what we have showed you already, but okay Game On. Here it is

MESSIAH IS BORN IN BETHLEHEM MICAH 5:2 mATT 2:1-7 JOHN 7:42 LUKE 2;47

MESSIAH IS TO BE PRECEDED BY A MESSENGER ISAIAH 40:3 MALACHI3:1 FULFILLED MATTHER 3: 1-3 11;10 JOHN 1;23 LIKE 1;17

MESSIAH IS TO ENTER JERUSALEM ON A DONKEY ZECH 9;9 FULFILLED MATT 21;6-11

MESSIAH IS TO BE BETRAYED BY A FRIEND
PSALMS 41;9 55;12-14
MATT. 10;4 26;49-50 JOHN 13;21

MESSIAH IS TO BE SOLD FOR 30 PIECES OF SILVER
ZECH 11;12
MATT 26;15 27;3

THE MONEY FOR WHICH MESSIAH IS SOLD IS TO BE THROWN TO THE POTTER IN GODS HOUSE
ZECH 11;13
MATT 27;5-7

MESSIAH BORN TO A VIRGIN
ISAIAH 7;14
MATT 1;8-2;1

MESSIAH TO BE HATED WTHOUT A CAUSE
ISAIAH 49;7
JOHN 15;24-25

MESSIAH TO BE SILENT BEFORE IS ACCUSERS
ISAIAH 53;7
MATT 27;12

MESSIAH TO BE EXECUTED BY CRUCIFIXION BY HAVING HIS HANDS AND FEET PIERCED
PSALM 22-16
JOHN 19;28

MESSIAH TO BE FIVEN VINEGAR TO QUENCH HIS THIRST
PSALM 69-21
MATT 27;34

MESSIAH TO BE EXECUTED WITHOUT HAVING A BONE BROKEN
ISAIAH 12;46 PSALM 34;21
JOHN 19;33-36

MESSIAH IS TO BE BURIED WITH THE RICH WHEN DEAD
ISIAH 53;9
MATT 27;57-60

MESSIAH IS TO BE RAISED FROM THE DEAD
ISIAH 53;9-10 PSALM 2;7 16;10
MATT 28;1-20 ACTS 2;23-36 l CORINTHIANS 11;4-6

MESSIAH IS TO BE EXECUTED BY CRUCIFIXION AS A THIEF
PSALM 22;16 ZECH 12;10 ISIAH 53;5
LUKE 22;23 JOHN 20;25 MATT 27-28 MARK 5;27-28

actually there are so many more, probally over 300 individual ones he fulfilled. But you know what, I know in my heart that will prove nothing to you. Because you know why, I don’t need the proof because I have faith. Faith in God. You admit you do not have faith, so you in part DO need this proof, but without seeing it you would not believe it anyway. Because as you admitted yourself you do not have faith. Without faith which comes from Grace from God no words, no scripture, no person can help convince you.

What I do not understand either, why are you so upset that the Messianic Jews are comming to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Why does it upset you that they are comming to realize what we have know all along, that Jesus Christ is indeed the God of Abraham. Why are you disapointed about that. As a previous Christian as you claim that should show you something. Not confuse you more. I really am praying for you simplynoone. I Really from the bottom of my heart want you to find the confort and joy and peace of Christ. This is no money, no man, no person in this world that can give you that type of security. Its like comming in to a warm cabin in the middle of a bitter cold windy storm and having someone put a warm blanket over you, give you a cup of warm tea and sit you by a warm fire. God is peace, God is Love, God is who we want to see when our time in this world is over. Because then paradise is promised to us. For if you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior you will have ETERNAL LIFE. Now thats worth waiting for.

 

[simplynoone]

Okay I really doubt you will consider this from what we have showed you already, but okay Game On. Here it is

Rinnie, of course I will. Question first before I start…would you prefer we discuss them one at a time? I personally would prefer to do such, but will leave it up to you.

 

[sedonaman]

Maybe someone has already asked my question, but I’m not going to read through all the posts to find out. Why is this topic, while interesting, in a forum of non-Catholic religions?