Paul of Tarsus

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StrawberryJam said:
I really don’t know how the rumor got out that I doubt the existance of Paul. 🤷
I’m doubting his stories and claims he makes. Even worse now, it sounds like there has been some plagerism going on with the Bacchae. It predates the christian writings by 500 years and has some stunning parallels.
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Hey again, StrawberryJam,

That’s OK if it appears to be plagiarism. Because it is! And do you know who’s doing the plagiarism? The enemy! Because God knows the end from the beginning, and Jesus Christ has been prophesied about since *before *the Bacchae. So you have it backwards; the LORD God has the original story, everything *else *is an imitation.
 
BouncingBall said:
Hey again, StrawberryJam,

That’s OK if it appears to be plagiarism. Because it is! And do you know who’s doing the plagiarism? The enemy! Because God knows the end from the beginning, and Jesus Christ has been prophesied about since *before *the Bacchae. So you have it backwards; the LORD God has the original story, everything *else *is an imitation.
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Hello BB!

Okay, here is the problem. 500 years before the scriptures stated any such claims about Christ, we have the Bacchae.
I searched for anything to be found in the works of Tacitus, and I can not find any mention of Paul, considering he made so many boastful claims about knowing governors, Kings, and Emperors, I just thought that a man that connected (forgive me, I live in Chicago) would deserve a little mention somewhere, considering all the things he claimed to do. I mean, resurrecting a person from the dead is pretty big stuff IMHO. Maybe then, at that time it was not. Because maybe then, at that time they did not realize the person was not dead to begin with? I don’t know. We can’t be certain. We have more technology today, and we can know with more accuracy if a person is really dead, and even then- we have made mistakes.😦 Thinking the person was dead, and they were not. I can only imagine that many many years ago, these things were assumed without the proper tools to determine the actual state of death. Interesting as that may be, we are still left with Euripides. We are still going to have to face this head on, and ask some hard questions.
 
Have you tried reading any of the early Christian apologists, like Justin Martyr, Clement, or Origen? I think 1 Clement discusses St. Paul a little bit, and that’s regarded as pretty historical. Beyond that, I don’t know how much I’m going to be able to help on this question, because you’re dealing with extraneous sources that I’m not all that familiar with. Still, I’ll see if I can dig up anything.
 
Rolltide said:
Have you tried reading any of the early Christian apologists, like Justin Martyr, Clement, or Origen? I think 1 Clement discusses St. Paul a little bit, and that’s regarded as pretty historical. Beyond that, I don’t know how much I’m going to be able to help on this question, because you’re dealing with extraneous sources that I’m not all that familiar with. Still, I’ll see if I can dig up anything.
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… of course, I’m not sure if I’d believe anything coming from the mouth of an Alabama Fan. How would Andrew have said it? Can anything good come out of Alabama? 😉
 
StrawberryJam said:
Okay, here is the problem. 500 years before the scriptures stated any such claims about Christ, we have the Bacchae.
I searched for anything to be found in the works of Tacitus, and I can not find any mention of Paul, considering he made so many boastful claims about knowing governors, Kings, and Emperors, I just thought that a man that connected (forgive me, I live in Chicago) would deserve a little mention somewhere, considering all the things he claimed to do. I mean, resurrecting a person from the dead is pretty big stuff IMHO. Maybe then, at that time it was not. Because maybe then, at that time they did not realize the person was not dead to begin with? I don’t know. We can’t be certain. We have more technology today, and we can know with more accuracy if a person is really dead, and even then- we have made mistakes.😦 Thinking the person was dead, and they were not. I can only imagine that many many years ago, these things were assumed without the proper tools to determine the actual state of death. Interesting as that may be, we are still left with Euripides. We are still going to have to face this head on, and ask some hard questions.
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Hey again, Strawberry 🙂
No problem. I will join others here in searching for some responses for you. But consider these couple of things…

The Holy Bible and Christianity have been sifted through left and right for 2,000 years. What’s the big deal, other religions have been around for longer, you say. The big deal is that we proclaim a Man Who is God and Who rose from the dead to everlasting life. No one else does that. What’s more, this is part of a Faith stretching back to Abraham (whose existence no scientists seem to have a problem with) and the revelation of the One God YHWH. After getting disciplined by God over and over again, the Jewish people have it locked in and nailed to the floor–there is only One God. So when a Man comes along and says Who He says He Is, and other Jewish contemporaries perceive and receive it…

Maybe Paul’s “bragging” is a source of comfort and ‘rallying the troops’ of the early Christians, the recipients of his letters. Proportionally, there weren’t that many Christians at the time and they kind of resembled Judaism. Maybe to the general Roman population “they all looked alike.” Also no internet, L trains or Headline News.

But I will do some research. Let me know also what your bud the priest says about it, too!
 
Rolltide said:
Have you tried reading any of the early Christian apologists, like Justin Martyr, Clement, or Origen? I think 1 Clement discusses St. Paul a little bit, and that’s regarded as pretty historical. Beyond that, I don’t know how much I’m going to be able to help on this question, because you’re dealing with extraneous sources that I’m not all that familiar with. Still, I’ll see if I can dig up anything.
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Rolltide, I know you have read Josephus. And, I am just digging into his stuff, and again I am finding very simillar things that he said, that Paul of Tarsus claims. It’s a bit weird how many links there are in comparing the two writers.
Tacitus and Pliny would have been very interested in discussing any of these events if they had known of them. I am trying to see how I can believe in any of Paul’s claims without a non biased source to do fact checking with. Trying. He makes the boldest claims of all the followers of Jesus. His friend Luke is also problematic for the reasons I posted. But, the others? I really don’t have any objections/hesitations/questions about. Maybe “less is more” is a better policy? :confused: I don’t object to Marian dogmas. Seems perfectly sensible to me. But, Paul is the “stumbling block” here now that I have read this. I do have other problems/objections but none of them seem to be as pressing at the moment.
 
BouncingBall said:
Hey again, Strawberry 🙂
No problem. I will join others here in searching for some responses for you. But consider these couple of things…

The Holy Bible and Christianity have been sifted through left and right for 2,000 years. What’s the big deal, other religions have been around for longer, you say. The big deal is that we proclaim a Man Who is God and Who rose from the dead to everlasting life. No one else does that. What’s more, this is part of a Faith stretching back to Abraham (whose existence no scientists seem to have a problem with) and the revelation of the One God YHWH. After getting disciplined by God over and over again, the Jewish people have it locked in and nailed to the floor–there is only One God. So when a Man comes along and says Who He says He Is, and other Jewish contemporaries perceive and receive it…

Maybe Paul’s “bragging” is a source of comfort and ‘rallying the troops’ of the early Christians, the recipients of his letters. Proportionally, there weren’t that many Christians at the time and they kind of resembled Judaism. Maybe to the general Roman population “they all looked alike.” Also no internet, L trains or Headline News.

But I will do some research. ** Let me know also what your bud the priest says about it, too**!
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He’s a bit hard to get to now. He is an Irish (retired yet still having to work) Priest. I want him to enjoy St. Patrick’s day without having to do any theological things beyond what his duty requires on such a day. Maybe I will even wait for St. Joseph’s day to pass without incident as well and then hit him with this bombshell. 😊 I hate having to put him in this position, because I really think he has “put his time in” already. God does work in Mysterious ways to put me in his path now.😦
 
diggerdomer said:
Ok. So? Paul didn’t kill Stephen.
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I know, but Paul’s conversion occurred after that. It couldn’t have been prior to the stoning of Stephen. If Stephen was stoned in 37AD, then it is sometime later than that date where Paul converts.
 
NotWorthy said:
I know, but Paul’s conversion occurred after that. It couldn’t have been prior to the stoning of Stephen. If Stephen was stoned in 37AD, then it is sometime later than that date where Paul converts.
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Oh ok. Thanks.
 
StrawberryJam said:
Rolltide, I know you have read Josephus. And, I am just digging into his stuff, and again I am finding very simillar things that he said, that Paul of Tarsus claims. It’s a bit weird how many links there are in comparing the two writers.
Tacitus and Pliny would have been very interested in discussing any of these events if they had known of them. I am trying to see how I can believe in any of Paul’s claims without a non biased source to do fact checking with. Trying. He makes the boldest claims of all the followers of Jesus. His friend Luke is also problematic for the reasons I posted. But, the others? I really don’t have any objections/hesitations/questions about. Maybe “less is more” is a better policy? :confused: I don’t object to Marian dogmas. Seems perfectly sensible to me. But, Paul is the “stumbling block” here now that I have read this. I do have other problems/objections but none of them seem to be as pressing at the moment.
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StrawberryJam, are you there? I tried to send you a PM but your mailbox was full and it wouldn’t go through. If you empty out some space there, I can send you my message. And my email address too. You can reach me at my blog too: Catholic Heart and Mind

Don’t disappear on me, okay?

Now I’m going to have to read this thread because I’m intrigued to know what you’re talking about. (I did a search to find your posts so I could leave you a reply since I couldn’t send you a PM.)
 
NotWorthy said:
… of course, I’m not sure if I’d believe anything coming from the mouth of an Alabama Fan. How would Andrew have said it? Can anything good come out of Alabama? 😉
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:hey_bud: Er, um, well, yes, I do believe that something good can come from Alabama, as a matter of fact. Some good things (even persons) even hail from Tuscaloosa, Alabama, hard as it is to believe, I admit.

Of course, the matter truth proceeding from the mouth of an Alabama fan is quite another matter and a matter that I am not prepared to discuss at the moment.

😉
 
Disciple96 said:
:hey_bud: Er, um, well, yes, I do believe that something good can come from Alabama, as a matter of fact. Some good things (even persons) even hail from Tuscaloosa, Alabama, hard as it is to believe, I admit.

Of course, the matter truth proceeding from the mouth of an Alabama fan is quite another matter and a matter that I am not prepared to discuss at the moment.

😉
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Sorry, a little “Gospel of John” humor. But Nathanael said to him, "Can anything good come from Nazareth?" Philip said to him, "Come and see."
 
Disciple96 said:
:hey_bud: Er, um, well, yes, I do believe that something good can come from Alabama, as a matter of fact. Some good things (even persons) even hail from Tuscaloosa, Alabama, hard as it is to believe, I admit.

Of course, the matter truth proceeding from the mouth of an Alabama fan is quite another matter and a matter that I am not prepared to discuss at the moment.

😉
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Don’t you know that Alabama fans have the “Fullness of the Truth” when it comes to football? All other college programs are simply akin to “Ecclesial Communities”! 😃
 
Rolltide said:
Don’t you know that Alabama fans have the “Fullness of the Truth” when it comes to football? All other college programs are simply akin to “Ecclesial Communities”! 😃
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Please don’t tell me that Sacred Tradition comes from Alabama! Everyone knows that Texas A&M has Sacred Tradition. 😉
 
At the risk of getting this thread even further off track… Well, at least 'Bama is in the SEC! 👍

Even with many Dawg fans in my family, I’ll still say “Go 'Gators!”

Could it be that St.Paul of Tarsus (Turkey) might be a Va. Tech (Hokies, Fighting Gobblers) fan?

And for NotWorthy, “Hook 'Em Horns!” 😃

This is so bad! I feel shame! 😊
 
Poco said:
At the risk of getting this thread even further off track… Well, at least 'Bama is in the SEC! 👍

Even with many Dawg fans in my family, I’ll still say “Go 'Gators!”

Could it be that St.Paul of Tarsus (Turkey) might be a Va. Tech (Hokies, Fighting Gobblers) fan?

And for NotWorthy, “Hook 'Em Horns!” 😃

This is so bad! I feel shame! 😊
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You see, if you were Catholic, you could go to confession for the tu comment. 😉 But you better make sure the priest is not an Aggie. I’d hate to see the penance he would set before you!!! :eek:
 
Poco said:
At the risk of getting this thread even further off track… Well, at least 'Bama is in the SEC! 👍

Even with many Dawg fans in my family, I’ll still say “Go 'Gators!”

Could it be that St.Paul of Tarsus (Turkey) might be a Va. Tech (Hokies, Fighting Gobblers) fan?

And for NotWorthy, “Hook 'Em Horns!” 😃

This is so bad! I feel shame! 😊
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Go Dawgs!! :cool:

😛

Hmm… I wonder what this thread is about. I skipped at least half of it.
 
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