Paul said Eve sinned first

  • Thread starter Thread starter GETITRIGHT
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
G

GETITRIGHT

Guest
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
 
Fauken said:
40.png
GETITRIGHT:
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Click to expand...
And your point is…?
Click to expand...
My sentiment as well.
 
I have read discussions on who sinned first Adam or Eve but I had not seen this verse referred to. To me this verse answers the question of who sinned first.
 
GETITRIGHT said:
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Click to expand...
I’m not feeling well, so maybe I’m missing something, but what I’m reading here is that Eve acted the way she did because she was deceived but that Adam disobeyed deliberately and knowingly.
 
Last edited:
Wesrock said:
I’m not feeling well, so maybe I’m missing something, but what I’m reading here is that Eve acted the way she did because she was deceived but that Adam disobeyed deliberately and knowingly.
Click to expand...
The above translation seems to give that impression, but the translation on the USCCB’s site is:
Further, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and transgressed.
Click to expand...
I thought it better that I not try to decipher Paul’s somewhat controversial (by today’s standards) words in this passage, but the USCCB site explains it thus:
The prayer of the community should be unmarred by internal dissension. At the liturgical assembly the dress of women should be appropriate to the occasion; their chief adornment is to be reputation for good works). Women are not to take part in the charismatic activity of the assembly or exercise authority; their conduct there should reflect the role of man’s helpmate and not the later relationship of Eve to Adam. As long as women perform their role as wives and mothers in faith and love, their salvation is assured.
Click to expand...
In any event, both Adam and Eve sinned. I don’t know what would have happened if one had sinned but not the other.
 
Last edited:
Of course Eve sinned first. But it was Adam, as the progenitor of all humanity, whose sin wounded human nature in all his future descendants until God stepped in to fix things.

Catholics see a parallel there with Mary and Jesus. Jesus was the Second Adam, the only one with the power to undo the effects of Adam’s disobedience. But as sort of a bookend to Eve’s prior and contributing disobedience, God arranged things so that another pure virgin — a New Eve — would choose obedience, before and as a contribution to the work of the Second Adam. Additionally, where the first Eve (according to the story) took her flesh from the body of her Adam, the Second Adam took His flesh from the body of His mother, His Eve.
 
Maybe If Adam had been strong enough not sin after Eve sinned and tempted him, the sin may have been contained in his household. But once he sinned, sin became global and a curse to all mankind. Sometimes we care more about our human relationships, to please our mates, family ,friends, boss more than we care about our relationship to our God and pleasing him.
 
Maybe If Adam had been strong enough not sin after Eve sinned and tempted him, the sin may have been contained in his household. But once he sinned, sin became global and a curse to all mankind.
 
Sometimes we care more about our human relationships, to please our mates, family ,friends, boss more than we care about our relationship to our God and pleasing him.
 
Sure, but Eve was smarter because she kinds a dialogues with the snake. The man- Adam, one gesture from her with no dialogue or resistance (she gave me the fruit so I ate it) and he eats the fruit; does not look good for the first man…
 
deceived and in transgression are not the same as she sinned first.
We need to remove the word ‘curse’

thats not what its about
 
Last edited:
GETITRIGHT said:
I have read discussions on who sinned first Adam or Eve
Click to expand...
Eve sinned at the time she was tempted. Adam sinned at the time he was tempted.

Doesn’t look like that much difference to me. 🤷‍♂️

In any case, Paul is talking in the context of his rules for speaking (preaching?) in church. He’s making the case that it wasn’t Adam who was deceived by the devil, but that Eve was deceived by the devil and therefore, she sinned. (And yes, he’s ignoring that Adam was tempted by Eve and he sinned, too. It’s just that, apparently, Paul is pointing out that it wasn’t Adam who was successfully tempted by the devil.)
 
GETITRIGHT said:
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Click to expand...
Not only Paul, but in Genesis 3, serpent, woman, and Adam all found guilty, in that order:
11/12 … Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat? … I did eat.
13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said … I did eat.
14 Then the Lord God said to the snake: Because you have done this …
16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception …
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife …
Click to expand...
St. Thomas Aquinas:

Summa Theologiae > Second Part of the Second Part > Question 163 > Article 1:
Reply to Objection 4. According to Augustine (Gen. ad lit. xi, 30), “the woman had not believed the serpent’s statement that they were debarred by God from a good and useful thing, were her mind not already filled with the love of her own power, and a certain proud self-presumption.” This does not mean that pride preceded the promptings of the serpent, but that as soon as the serpent had spoken his words of persuasion, her mind was puffed up, the result being that she believed the demon to have spoken truly.
Click to expand...
Summa Theologiae > Second Part of the Second Part > Question 163 > Article 4:
I answer that, As stated (Article 3), the gravity of a sin depends on the species rather than on a circumstance of that sin. Accordingly we must assert that, if we consider the condition attaching to these persons, the man’s sin is the more grievous, because he was more perfect than the woman.

As regards the genus itself of the sin, the sin of each is considered to be equal, for each sinned by pride. Hence Augustine says (Gen. ad lit. xi, 35): “Eve in excusing herself betrays disparity of sex, though parity of pride.”

But as regards the species of pride, the woman sinned more grievously, for three reasons. …
…
Reply to Objection 1. The woman was deceived because she was first of all puffed up with pride. Wherefore her ignorance did not excuse, but aggravated her sin, in so far as it was the cause of her being puffed up with still greater pride.
Click to expand...
 
Well yes, the devil tempted Eve to eat of the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil which God told Adam and Eve to not eat from. Eve succummed to the temptation and ate the fruit from the forbidden tree and then offered the fruit to Adam and he ate, Genesis 3.
 
Adam stood there and allowed her to be tempted and act on that temptation. He did nothing after being given the task to guard the garden. Her fall came through his weakness and then lead to his fall. Had he fought the devil and died to protect her, the outcome would likely have been very different. Weak men in the face of evil allow the destruction of many.
 
OP, its not a sin to be deceived.

Its a sin to knowingly do an act against God. Nor does the passage you alluded here say explicitly that Eve sinned first… its says that ADAM was NOT deceived, yet he went along with it anyway… meaning, he knew it was against God and did it anyway.

Eve didn’t really know, or understand, or she was in danger of following something not of God but didn’t think so.

Adam sinned. Eve was just deceived. He was supposed to be caring for her. God put him in charge. A leader who does not do the will of God is responsible for those who are apt to get deceived… i.e. sheep. A good father is a good shepherd and all men are called to be as such. Many are deceived. All fall short and are in need of a good shepherd.

And furthermore, it doesn’t matter ‘who sinned first’… why do you come here to make divisions? At least that is what it seems to me.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top