Paul VI to be beatified at conclusion of synod

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I don’t quite understand the process to sainthood. Does this announcement of beatification hinge on a proved miracle to have already taken place? This seems somewhat political given that the Vatican is waiting to beatify him at the synod’s conclusion.

It seems that all post conciliar popes will be saints. Seems somewhat peculiar since many many pre- vatican2 popes have not been elevated to sainthood. Could this be a means to legitimize Vatican II in the eyes of the faithful?
 
RosslynV said:
I don’t quite understand the process to sainthood. Does this announcement of beatification hinge on a proved miracle to have already taken place? This seems somewhat political given that the Vatican is waiting to beatify him at the synod’s conclusion.

It seems that all post conciliar popes will be saints. Seems somewhat peculiar since many many pre- vatican2 popes have not been elevated to sainthood. Could this be a means to legitimize Vatican II in the eyes of the faithful?
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Praying for that!
 
A miracle isn’t even needed. it wasn’t needed for Francis, Dominic, Clare, or Anthony (among others).
 
RosslynV said:
I don’t quite understand the process to sainthood. Does this announcement of beatification hinge on a proved miracle to have already taken place? This seems somewhat political given that the Vatican is waiting to beatify him at the synod’s conclusion.

It seems that all post conciliar popes will be saints. Seems somewhat peculiar since many many pre- vatican2 popes have not been elevated to sainthood. Could this be a means to legitimize Vatican II in the eyes of the faithful?
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I don’t think they need to do that. The majority of the faithful already see Vatican II as legitimate.

The link given by Louis H. should answer your questions adequately. 🙂
 
Paul VI and John XXIII are beatified but Pius XII is not? I need some understanding of this process as well.
 
RosslynV said:
Could this be a means to legitimize Vatican II in the eyes of the faithful?
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Why would the Vatican need to “legitimize” the largest and most well attended ecumenical council of the Church’s entire history?
 
Apparently, God gave Giovanni Montini a miracle. See the reference several posts above.

That poor guy suffered so much during his pontificate, that I really respect him. He was an introvert, and the job of pope had not been much fun for him. (Unlike Roncalli, a/k/k John XXIII) Everyone hated his birth control encyclical, and booed and hissed him (including me), but he did everything in good conscience and was a sincere and godly man, I feel.
 
Hey guys

Anyone want to canonize Joseph Ratzinger? Like Tomorrow?
 
There have been only two popes made saints during the period 1566-1958, almost 400 years. So now there’s been 3 popes (Paul 6 soon) canonized as saints in the past 50 years. Either the pre- conciliar popes were lacking in virtue or perhaps the process to sainthood is now less restrictive. Or maybe no one prays to older popes for miracles.
 
RosslynV said:
There have been only two popes made saints during the period 1566-1958, almost 400 years. So now there’s been 3 popes (Paul 6 soon) canonized as saints in the past 50 years. Either the pre- conciliar popes were lacking in virtue or perhaps the process to sainthood is now less restrictive. Or maybe no one prays to older popes for miracles.
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I know St. Francis, St. Anthony ,etc. were canonized without miracles, but so were a lot of spurious people. That is why they made the canonization process so hard. They required TWO miracles to become a beatus, and TWO more for sainthood. The reason for the miracles was to see what God thought of this person. That is why I think it wrong to waive the miracle requirement. You are not showing respect to God.

I don’t think those old-timey popes were lacking in virtue. I just think the process got less stringent, in the case of the last 2 canonizations, too easy. Not enough time elapsed for one candidate, and the other candidate lacked one of the ONLY TWO required miracles. There is nothing wrong with waiting, and as all our mothers used to say: 😃 Patience is a virtue. 😛

P.S. Happy Saint Francis Borja y Aragon day! A bona-fide old-timey Four Miracle Saint!
 
Vouthon said:
Why would the Vatican need to “legitimize” the largest and most well attended ecumenical council of the Church’s entire history?
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Some catholics have reservations regarding Vatican II. Just look at sspx as an example

I don’t believe there were any infallible teachings proclaimed during the Council.
 
RosslynV said:
There have been only two popes made saints during the period 1566-1958, almost 400 years. So now there’s been 3 popes (Paul 6 soon) canonized as saints in the past 50 years. Either the pre- conciliar popes were lacking in virtue or perhaps the process to sainthood is now less restrictive. Or maybe no one prays to older popes for miracles.
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:bigyikes:OH EM GEE !!
I just read part of Melchior’s blog, and hoooooo! The DIZZYING responsibilities the pope has!

All the stuff he can do! Leaves me breathless. How can any human bear all that? I’m suprised that ANY popes ever made it to heaven!!!

vagrantcatholic.wordpress.com/2013/04/02/on-pope-francis-customs/
 
RosslynV said:
I don’t quite understand the process to sainthood. Does this announcement of beatification hinge on a proved miracle to have already taken place? This seems somewhat political given that the Vatican is waiting to beatify him at the synod’s conclusion.

It seems that all post conciliar popes will be saints. Seems somewhat peculiar since many many pre- vatican2 popes have not been elevated to sainthood. Could this be a means to legitimize Vatican II in the eyes of the faithful?
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Is this for sure?

Sometimes I wonder if they know something we do not, like things are going to get bad really soon, as in end of times:eek:. And they are speeding things up. Our Lady of Fatima’s apparition-anniversary is just around the corner in 2017…I do not know, I am so confused with everything. God bless. Thanks for the thread.
 
Weejee said:
I know St. Francis, St. Anthony ,etc. were canonized without miracles, but so were a lot of spurious people. That is why they made the canonization process so hard. They required TWO miracles to become a beatus, and TWO more for sainthood. The reason for the miracles was to see what God thought of this person. That is why I think it wrong to waive the miracle requirement. You are not showing respect to God.
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Pope John XXII had only one miracle attributed to him, not two. On your basis, he ought not to have been canonised. Was his canonisation showing disrespect to God?
 
Brendan_64 said:
Pope John XXII had only one miracle attributed to him, not two. On your basis, he ought not to have been canonised. Was his canonisation showing disrespect to God?
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In my humble opinon, yes.

Patience is one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit. Mistakes have been made with declaring saints before.

And if anyone is really a saint, they won’t give a rat’s tail about being canonized or not. They’ll be having too much JOY in heaven!🙂
 
Weejee said:
In my humble opinon, yes.

Patience is one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit. Mistakes have been made with declaring saints before.

And if anyone is really a saint, they won’t give a rat’s tail about being canonized or not. They’ll be having too much JOY in heaven!🙂
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Let’s get this straight–you are saying that some Pope, (whoever might be in office at the time) who holds the keys of Peter and has the power to bind and loose, actually made a mistake in canonizing some individual? According to whom?

This is not Church teaching. Canonizations are seen as infallible. If a Pope has canonized someone, they are in heaven, period. Not up for personal opinion.

Beatification, however is a different matter. But if the Holy Spirit leads a Pope to declare a person a canonized Saint, there is no mistake.

There are plenty of articles on the internet dealing with this. Look it up.
 
Unlike other all Catholics, the Pope is not bound by the laws and disciplines of the Church, he is only bound by doctrine. Anything that is not a matter of doctrine, the Pope can waive, either for himself alone as he wishes, or for the rest of us. Since the requirement for two miracles isn’t a matter of doctrine, but rather a regulation put in place as a safeguard, the Pope can waive it at will.
 
CB_Catholic said:
Let’s get this straight–you are saying that some Pope, (whoever might be in office at the time) who holds the keys of Peter and has the power to bind and loose, actually made a mistake in canonizing some individual? According to whom?

This is not Church teaching. Canonizations are seen as infallible. If a Pope has canonized someone, they are in heaven, period. Not up for personal opinion.

Beatification, however is a different matter. But if the Holy Spirit leads a Pope to declare a person a canonized Saint, there is no mistake.

There are plenty of articles on the internet dealing with this. Look it up.
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I read this a while back, in 2006. They declared a unrepentant drunkard a saint. I’ll have to look and see who did that. It might have been back in the “Santo Subito” days, which means a super long time ago, like in the 400’s.

Are canonizations ex-cathedra?:confused:
 
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