Pauls authority

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Where does he get it? What gave him the right to say it is ok for us to eat pork?
Does Jesus say it is ok to eat food like pork or other previously “banned” foods.
Where does it say in the NT that certain laws like killing of disobedient children are no longer to be followed?
 
Where does he get it? What gave him the right to say it is ok for us to eat pork?
Does Jesus say it is ok to eat food like pork or other previously “banned” foods.
Where does it say in the NT that certain laws like killing of disobedient children are no longer to be followed?
We are not subject to the ritual laws of the Old Testament. We are only bound by the moral laws, i.e. the 10 commandments.

To answer your question about pork Jesus did say its okay.

Matt 15:11 “It is not what enters one’s mouth that defiles that person; but what comes out of the mouth is what defiles one.”
 
Thank you both., They did indeed help. One more bit of help would be grand. And that is the verse where Jesus says he has brought forth new laws.
 
Thank you both., They did indeed help. One more bit of help would be grand. And that is the verse where Jesus says he has brought forth new laws.
John 13:34-35 “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Is this what you are looking for?

Peace
James
 
Where does he get it? What gave him the right to say it is ok for us to eat pork?
Does Jesus say it is ok to eat food like pork or other previously “banned” foods.
I’m not sure why you ask about Paul’s authority. The authority you ask about was given to Peter:
On the next day, as they were on their way and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hour to pray. But he became hungry and was desiring to eat; but while they were making preparations, he fell into a trance; and he saw the sky opened up, and an object like a great sheet coming down, lowered by four corners to the ground, and there were in it all kinds of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the air. A voice came to him, “Get up, Peter, kill and eat!” But Peter said, “By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean.” Again a voice came to him a second time, “What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy.” This happened three times, and immediately the object was taken up into the sky.
[Acts 10:9-14]
Where does it say in the NT that certain laws like killing of disobedient children are no longer to be followed?
The NT does not say that. But the Catholic Church does say that. And the Catholic Church is firmly established in the NT, with complete and absolute authority.

By (ONLY) the authority of the Catholic Church do we even KNOW what ought to be considered part of the New Testament (and what should not).
 
latin_rite;9197012:
Where does he get it?
He got it directly from the Holy Spirit.
A quibble:

[BIBLEDRB]Acts 22:6-10[/BIBLEDRB]

It might be more accurate to say he got his authority from the Church.
“Arise, and go to Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of ALL things that thou must do”

Which is not to say that Paul did not also have an infusion of the Holy Spirit.
It’s more that God does not transgress his Church.

Acts 22:6-10 in five different Catholic Bibles
 
A quibble:

[BIBLEDRB]Acts 22:6-10[/BIBLEDRB]

It might be more accurate to say he got his authority from the Church.
“Arise, and go to Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of ALL things that thou must do”

Which is not to say that Paul did not also have an infusion of the Holy Spirit.
It’s more that God does not transgress his Church.

Acts 22:6-10 in five different Catholic Bibles
Good point…Allow me a revision??

From the Holy Spirit “Through” the Church…👍

Peace
James
 
Where does he get it? What gave him the right to say it is ok for us to eat pork?
Does Jesus say it is ok to eat food like pork or other previously “banned” foods.
Where does it say in the NT that certain laws like killing of disobedient children are no longer to be followed?
Mark 7:18-20
Do you not see that whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile him, 19 since it enters, not his heart but his stomach, and so passes on?" (Thus he declared all foods clean.)

I suggest a study of the NT for the words “but I say to you”. These signify where Jesus is reinterpreting or contradicting what was being taught and practiced. Some of these relate to the application of the Law, but others, to practices of the day that were not part of Mosaic Law.

Do you have an adolescent under your roof?
 
Could mathew 5:38 be used as an example of Jesus Changing laws from the OT? Or laying down a version of an old law
 
Could mathew 5:38 be used as an example of Jesus Changing laws from the OT? Or laying down a version of an old law
Frankly, I suggest that it is neither of these alternatives.

Jesus was instead preparing the disciples for the establishment of an entirely new covenant. Built upon the old but, of entirely “new cloth” for it would be based, not on “Law” but on Love (Agape).

Jesus tells the disciples later that all of the law is based upon two great commandments both of which stem from the principle of Love.
He is instructing them to understand all that came before, not in a “legal” sense, but in the very personal sense of Love. That all needs to be understood and interpreted in this light of Love and that the one who has “Agape” imprinted on his heart will understand how to properly live - whether under the law or not.

Peace
James
 
Where does he get it? What gave him the right to say it is ok for us to eat pork?
Does Jesus say it is ok to eat food like pork or other previously “banned” foods.
Where does it say in the NT that certain laws like killing of disobedient children are no longer to be followed?
Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, received his authority directly from the risen, exalted, Lord Jesus Christ. He did not receive it from men, notice -

Ga 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

Ga 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

QC
 
Paul may have gotten his authority from Jesus but he is the only one who knows that. My immediate concern - which has grown as I get older - is why most of Paul’s pronouncements are made on his own and are not made in conjunction with Peter and the other apostles; and why are many of his pronouncements so at odds with the mercy evident in the teachings of Christ in the Gospels. E.g., his statement on sacrilege seems quite contrary to the teaching and actions of Christ who made it quite clear that he came FOR sinners, not for the righteous. Even the prayers of the church at communion reflect this - Lord I am not worthy…say but the word and my soul shall be healed. At the elevation of the chalice, the prayer I was taught by the Church is “May the blood of Christ wash away my sins and bring me to eternal life.” To argue that one must be cleansed of what we call “actual” sin before Christ can come into one’s soul seems contrary to the very heart of why Christ came as well as to the implications of the prayers the Church uses. Scripture does not record a baptism of any of the Apostles (OR Paul, though one could presume a baptism of fire - an idea which did not come into the church until later) so unless one presumes that Christ wiped their souls clean of original sin (which is not addressed in Scripture) they received the Body and Blood of Christ in sacrilege - AND Peter went on to deny Christ, a good indication that he was still subject to the penalties of original sin!

On only one occasion in Scripture is a meeting recorded between Paul and Peter – the council in Jerusalem, Acts 15:1-29. At that council it was affirmed that the issue of circumcision of the Gentiles and the eating of “unclean” meat were not requirements to be imposed upon the Gentile converts. However, after Acts, the remainder of the documents of the New Testament do not record any communication between Paul and Peter sufficient to indicate that Paul made decisions consistent with any acknowledgment of Peter as head of the Church or in conjunction with Peter. The pronouncements of Paul - which seem to make up a tremendous amount of the Church’s teaching and doctrine and dogma today - are more consistent with the harsh, even brash, attitude of the Jews with the Ten Commandments. Christ admonished the Jews for having taken His Father’s commandments and expanding them into thousands of nit-picky rules. Paul, in his letters, has laid the foundation for the Church to do the same thing.

I would like to see more about the relationship between Paul and Peter and why the Church seems to use and to rely on so much of Paul’s teachings rather than those of Peter and the Apostles. It is all well and good to SAY that Paul received his authority from the risen Christ but Christ gave the keys to His Church to Peter, not Paul. I would like to understand more of Paul’s authority as an independent apostle of Christ to the Gentiles, why he had an independent authority to make decisions of apparent doctrine and/or dogma to HIS churches, and why that does not make him any less a renegade than Martin Luther or John Smith or any of the others who claim to have received revelation and guidance from the Holy Spirit.

Sign me … :confused:
 
Paul may have gotten his authority from Jesus but he is the only one who knows that. My immediate concern - which has grown as I get older - is why most of Paul’s pronouncements are made on his own and are not made in conjunction with Peter and the other apostles; and why are many of his pronouncements so at odds with the mercy evident in the teachings of Christ in the Gospels. E.g., his statement on sacrilege seems quite contrary to the teaching and actions of Christ who made it quite clear that he came FOR sinners, not for the righteous. Even the prayers of the church at communion reflect this - Lord I am not worthy…say but the word and my soul shall be healed. At the elevation of the chalice, the prayer I was taught by the Church is “May the blood of Christ wash away my sins and bring me to eternal life.” To argue that one must be cleansed of what we call “actual” sin before Christ can come into one’s soul seems contrary to the very heart of why Christ came as well as to the implications of the prayers the Church uses. Scripture does not record a baptism of any of the Apostles (OR Paul, though one could presume a baptism of fire - an idea which did not come into the church until later) so unless one presumes that Christ wiped their souls clean of original sin (which is not addressed in Scripture) they received the Body and Blood of Christ in sacrilege - AND Peter went on to deny Christ, a good indication that he was still subject to the penalties of original sin!

On only one occasion in Scripture is a meeting recorded between Paul and Peter – the council in Jerusalem, Acts 15:1-29. At that council it was affirmed that the issue of circumcision of the Gentiles and the eating of “unclean” meat were not requirements to be imposed upon the Gentile converts. However, after Acts, the remainder of the documents of the New Testament do not record any communication between Paul and Peter sufficient to indicate that Paul made decisions consistent with any acknowledgment of Peter as head of the Church or in conjunction with Peter. The pronouncements of Paul - which seem to make up a tremendous amount of the Church’s teaching and doctrine and dogma today - are more consistent with the harsh, even brash, attitude of the Jews with the Ten Commandments. Christ admonished the Jews for having taken His Father’s commandments and expanding them into thousands of nit-picky rules. Paul, in his letters, has laid the foundation for the Church to do the same thing.

I would like to see more about the relationship between Paul and Peter and why the Church seems to use and to rely on so much of Paul’s teachings rather than those of Peter and the Apostles. It is all well and good to SAY that Paul received his authority from the risen Christ but Christ gave the keys to His Church to Peter, not Paul. I would like to understand more of Paul’s authority as an independent apostle of Christ to the Gentiles, why he had an independent authority to make decisions of apparent doctrine and/or dogma to HIS churches, and why that does not make him any less a renegade than Martin Luther or John Smith or any of the others who claim to have received revelation and guidance from the Holy Spirit.

Sign me … :confused:
Paul was originally given special knowledge from God when he was chosen. It is from this that he first started to preach. He knew however that the authority was with Peter which is why he had to go to Peter and the others and then receive the commission to preach and baptize. If you remember, in Acts, he had his head shaved before he was commissioned.

As far as baptism is concerned throughout the old testament into the new, there is an entomology that shows a progression to what it is now. If you need more on this I can give it but it is long for this reply.
 
Fiume Arno #13
On only one occasion in Scripture is a meeting recorded between Paul and Peter – the council in Jerusalem, Acts 15:1-29.
I would like to understand more of Paul’s authority as an independent apostle of Christ to the Gentiles, why he had an independent authority to make decisions of apparent doctrine and/or dogma to HIS churches, and why that does not make him any less a renegade than Martin Luther or John Smith or any of the others who claim to have received revelation and guidance from the Holy Spirit.
How very strange.

Why have you evaded the fact that Paul made sure that his ministry to the gentiles was recognised by Peter (Gal 1:I8)?
Already, Peter had exercised his supreme authority in the upper room before Pentecost to have Judas’ place filled. At the first Apostolic Council of Jerusalem Peter settled the heated discussion over circumcising the gentiles and “the whole assembly fell silent” (Acts 15:7-12).

Why would you erroneously feel that Paul was a “renegade” – what doctrines did he evade or deny? None.
 
Paul may have gotten his authority from Jesus but he is the only one who knows that. My immediate concern - which has grown as I get older - is why most of Paul’s pronouncements are made on his own and are not made in conjunction with Peter and the other apostles; and why are many of his pronouncements so at odds with the mercy evident in the teachings of Christ in the Gospels. E.g., his statement on sacrilege seems quite contrary to the teaching and actions of Christ who made it quite clear that he came FOR sinners, not for the righteous. Even the prayers of the church at communion reflect this - Lord I am not worthy…say but the word and my soul shall be healed. At the elevation of the chalice, the prayer I was taught by the Church is “May the blood of Christ wash away my sins and bring me to eternal life.” To argue that one must be cleansed of what we call “actual” sin before Christ can come into one’s soul seems contrary to the very heart of why Christ came as well as to the implications of the prayers the Church uses. Scripture does not record a baptism of any of the Apostles (OR Paul, though one could presume a baptism of fire - an idea which did not come into the church until later) so unless one presumes that Christ wiped their souls clean of original sin (which is not addressed in Scripture) they received the Body and Blood of Christ in sacrilege - AND Peter went on to deny Christ, a good indication that he was still subject to the penalties of original sin!

On only one occasion in Scripture is a meeting recorded between Paul and Peter – the council in Jerusalem, Acts 15:1-29. At that council it was affirmed that the issue of circumcision of the Gentiles and the eating of “unclean” meat were not requirements to be imposed upon the Gentile converts. However, after Acts, the remainder of the documents of the New Testament do not record any communication between Paul and Peter sufficient to indicate that Paul made decisions consistent with any acknowledgment of Peter as head of the Church or in conjunction with Peter. The pronouncements of Paul - which seem to make up a tremendous amount of the Church’s teaching and doctrine and dogma today - are more consistent with the harsh, even brash, attitude of the Jews with the Ten Commandments. Christ admonished the Jews for having taken His Father’s commandments and expanding them into thousands of nit-picky rules. Paul, in his letters, has laid the foundation for the Church to do the same thing.

I would like to see more about the relationship between Paul and Peter and why the Church seems to use and to rely on so much of Paul’s teachings rather than those of Peter and the Apostles. It is all well and good to SAY that Paul received his authority from the risen Christ but Christ gave the keys to His Church to Peter, not Paul. I would like to understand more of Paul’s authority as an independent apostle of Christ to the Gentiles, why he had an independent authority to make decisions of apparent doctrine and/or dogma to HIS churches, and why that does not make him any less a renegade than Martin Luther or John Smith or any of the others who claim to have received revelation and guidance from the Holy Spirit.

Sign me … :confused:
I know of at least three interactions between Paul and Peter in Scripture. There is the Council which you mention, the passage in Galatians which someone mentioned above - a very important passage as it relate to your questions - and then there is a passage (I don’t recall ch-vs) where Paul speaks of a disagreement between himself and Peter.
In addition to these three passages, there is another where Paul goes up to Jerusalem and meets with Peter and James “but no others”…However it is not clear if this is a different meeting or the same meeting also mentioned in Gal.

However - to address your overall concern about Paul’s teachings as they relate to the teachings of the others…
The simplest answer is this. If Paul was teaching a “different Gospel” the Holy Spirit would not have allowed his letters to make it into the Bible.

As to your specific concerns about where Paul’s teachings seem to be at odds with the teachings of Jesus…If you provide a specific or two I’m sure the good people here at CAF will be able to help.
As a general help on this matter I think that one needs to consider the audience that each was speaking to. Jesus, during His earthly ministry, was focused on the Jews and His teaching, His parables, etc, were geared in that direction.
Paul was sent primarily to the Gentiles who had a very different “worldview” from the Jew. The letters we have of Paul’s are written to individuals (Tim) or parishes largely comprised of these Gentile converts and they address specific issues.
Plus - while we have Paul’s letters - His response - we don’t have the whole picture of the community, how certain problems arose, when where and how Paul learned of the problem etc…It’s like we only have one side of a telephone conversation.

Anyway - I hope the various responses you are receiving are of help to you.

Peace
James
 
Paul was originally given special knowledge from God when he was chosen. It is from this that he first started to preach. He knew however that the authority was with Peter which is why he had to go to Peter and the others and then receive the commission to preach and baptize. If you remember, in Acts, he had his head shaved before he was commissioned.

As far as baptism is concerned throughout the old testament into the new, there is an entomology that shows a progression to what it is now. If you need more on this I can give it but it is long for this reply.
Paul went up to Jerusalem to confer with James, Peter and John [Gal. 2:2. Why did he confer with them? He “communicated to them that gospel which I preach…” They “added NOTHING to him” [Gal. 2:6]. BUT, ON THE CONTRARY" he added much to them. James, Peter and John agreed to confine their ministry to Israel - the circumcision. While Paul went to the Gentiles [after the Acts period’. During Acts Paul always went to the “Jew first.” When Israel is set aside in Acts 28 we have Paul’s final turning [3rd] to the Gentiles.

The Body of Christ was first revealed to Paul. The 12 had to learn about it from him.

Grace and peace,
QC

BTW, water baptism was an O.T. Jewish ritual to prepare Israel to become a nation of priests in the coming kingdom. Note Hebrews 9:10 where “washing” is the Greek word “baptizo”. Compare Ex. 19:4-5 with Peter’s quote in 1 Peter 2:9. Note that Peter is addressing Israel [12 tribes scattered abroad].
 
We are not subject to the ritual laws of the Old Testament. We are only bound by the moral laws, i.e. the 10 commandments.

To answer your question about pork Jesus did say its okay.

Matt 15:11 “It is not what enters one’s mouth that defiles that person; but what comes out of the mouth is what defiles one.”
And we now have BBQ sauce!😃
 
For a good understanding of Paul I think you will find these audiences of Pope Benedict XVI interesting…

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061025_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061108_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061115_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061122_en.html

Series from the Year of St. Paul

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20080702_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20080827_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20080903_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20080910_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20080924_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081001_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081008_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081015_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081022_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081029_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081105_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081112_en.html

Faith and works in these two:

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081119_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081126_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081203_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081210_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20090107_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20090114_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20090128_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20090204_en.html

books that contain them:

ignatius.com/Products/SPAUL-H/saint-paul.aspx

ignatius.com/Products/JAEC-H/jesus-the-apostles-and-the-early-church.aspx
 
Paul went up to Jerusalem to confer with James, Peter and John [Gal. 2:2. Why did he confer with them? He “communicated to them that gospel which I preach…” They “added NOTHING to him” [Gal. 2:6]. BUT, ON THE CONTRARY" he added much to them. James, Peter and John agreed to confine their ministry to Israel - the circumcision. While Paul went to the Gentiles [after the Acts period’. During Acts Paul always went to the “Jew first.” When Israel is set aside in Acts 28 we have Paul’s final turning [3rd] to the Gentiles.

The Body of Christ was first revealed to Paul. The 12 had to learn about it from him.

Grace and peace,
QC

BTW, water baptism was an O.T. Jewish ritual to prepare Israel to become a nation of priests in the coming kingdom. Note Hebrews 9:10 where “washing” is the Greek word “baptizo”. Compare Ex. 19:4-5 with Peter’s quote in 1 Peter 2:9. Note that Peter is addressing Israel [12 tribes scattered abroad].
I can see from what you posted you have a good understanding of scripture. However, I would add that what Paul was saying was that he understood the gospel and by his preaching it he did not give a different one than that of Peter and those who were with Him during his life on earth. IE, Paul was preaching the same gospel as revealed to the other apostles because “they added nothing” to what he was saying. I can not be certain that it was Paul that gave the introduction of the “Body of Christ”, but it was him that first wrote about it. If you believe that writing about it constitutes first knowing about it that is OK with me, but I reserve judgement.

Peter did stay in Israel to work with those there (Jews) and Paul was a bishop at large. Paul went to the Mediteranean areas but always went to the temple to preach first because he owed it to the Jews who were first called. It was a matter of justice for him to do that. After the Jews in the temple would refuse to listen and believe then he went to the gentiles (Rom 2:10) in each city he visited.

You are right about baptism and the cleansing rituals. They had passages in Ezekiel also espesiclly in the beginning of ch 47.
mdcpensive1
 
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