Paul's Damascus experience

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St. Luke, the author of Acts wrote about Paul’s Damascus experience in three accounts in this one book. They are found in

Acts 9:3-7, 22:6-9 26:12-14

Please read the passages, then do the Poll. Come on, it’s fun and will raise surprising questions and answers I am sure.
 
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catholic2:
St. Luke, the author of Acts wrote about Paul’s Damascus experience in three accounts in this one book. They are found in

Acts 9:3-7, 22:6-9 26:12-14

Please read the passages, then do the Poll. Come on, it’s fun and will raise surprising questions and answers I am sure.
Is there not someone who can see the hidden intent of this thread and make an insightful comment? To those who took part in the poll, thank you.
 
Acts IX 9 : 7

And the Lord said to him: Arise, and go into the city, and there it shall be told thee what thou must do. Now the men who went in company with him, stood amazed, hearing indeed a voice, but seeing no man

Acts XXII : 9

And they that were with me, saw indeed the light, but they heard not the voice of him that spoke with me.

Haydock Commentary

Acts XX II VER. 9. Heard not the voice. To reconcile this with c. ix. v. 7. where it is said that they heard the voice; it may be answered that they heard a noise, and a voice, but heard it not distinctly, nor so as to understand the words. Wi.-- They heard not the voice of him who spoke to the apostle, but they heard the latter speak; (Acts ix. 7.) or perhaps they heard a noise, which they could not understand. They perhaps heard the voice of Paul answering, but not that of Christ complaining.
 
Acts IX 9 : 7
And the Lord said to him: Arise, and go into the city, and there it shall be told thee what thou must do. Now the men who went in company with him, stood amazed, hearing *indeed *a voice, but seeing no man

Acts XXII : 9

And they that were with me, saw indeed the light, but they heard not the voice of him that spoke with me.
Code:
                   ** Haydock Commentary**
Acts XX II VER. 9. Heard not the voice. To reconcile this with c. ix. v. 7. where it is said that they heard the voice; it may be answered that they heard a noise, and a voice, but heard it not distinctly, nor so as to understand the words. Wi.-- They heard not the voice of him who spoke to the apostle, but they heard the latter speak; (Acts ix. 7.) or perhaps they heard a noise, which they could not understand. They perhaps heard the voice of Paul answering, but not that of Christ complaining.
 
Acts XXVI : 13

At midday, O king, I sawin the way a light from heaven above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me, and them that were in company with me

14 And when we were all fallen down on the ground,* I* heard a voice speaking to me in the Hebrew tongue: Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? It is hard for thee to kick against the goad
 
I see that in each relation of the story of Paul’s conversion the exact details are slightly different. Perhaps over time the details became a bit fuzzier in Paul’s mind. However, the big picture remains. Paul saw the Lord, whether the companions saw the light, or didn’t see the light. Whether they fell down, or stood up. In the end it really does not change anything. Paul was converted and became one of the greatest Apostles that ever lived, and this is the most important thing.

I don’t know if this is the type of insightful comment you were looking for, but that is what really struck me about this passage.

Great poll by the way. Very thought provoking.
 
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jpy15026:
Acts IX 9 : 7

And the Lord said to him: Arise, and go into the city, and there it shall be told thee what thou must do. Now the men who went in company with him, stood amazed, hearing indeed a voice, but seeing no man

Acts XXII : 9

And they that were with me, saw indeed the light, but they heard not the voice of him that spoke with me.

Haydock Commentary

Acts XX II VER. 9. Heard not the voice. To reconcile this with c. ix. v. 7. where it is said that they heard the voice; it may be answered that they heard a noise, and a voice, but heard it not distinctly, nor so as to understand the words. Wi.-- They heard not the voice of him who spoke to the apostle, but they heard the latter speak; (Acts ix. 7.) or perhaps they heard a noise, which they could not understand. They perhaps heard the voice of Paul answering, but not that of Christ complaining.
Thank you JPY15026 (what does your name mean?) for your effort andthe commentary by Haddock. Interesting commentary but not as thorough as It could be. I am positive that before the end of this thread, an exhaustive explanation will be offered.
Would you mind revealing how you voted then?
 
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Benignus:
I see that in each relation of the story of Paul’s conversion the exact details are slightly different. Perhaps over time the details became a bit fuzzier in Paul’s mind. However, the big picture remains. Paul saw the Lord, whether the companions saw the light, or didn’t see the light. Whether they fell down, or stood up. In the end it really does not change anything. Paul was converted and became one of the greatest Apostles that ever lived, and this is the most important thing.

I don’t know if this is the type of insightful comment you were looking for, but that is what really struck me about this passage.

Great poll by the way. Very thought provoking.
Benignus: The part where you were trying to reconcile the differences is the type of approach I was looking for. Oh and remember that it was Luke writing down the accounts, Luke wrote the Gospel so he was a good writer, was learned, a doctor, and probably very systematic so the differences in the three accounts is even more striking considering who wrote it. Did Paul relate the stories differently each time and Luke simply took it verbatim, or was Luke’s reporting inaccurate? or…?

I am positive that a definitive answer will be given before the end of this thread.

I believe in the absolute inerrancy of scripture.
 
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jpy15026:
Acts IX 9 : 7

And the Lord said to him: Arise, and go into the city, and there it shall be told thee what thou must do. Now the men who went in company with him, stood amazed, hearing indeed a voice, but seeing no man

Acts XXII : 9

And they that were with me, saw indeed the light, but they heard not the voice of him that spoke with me.
The difference between the two is that in Acts 9:7 the Greek work for “voice” is in the genitive case, (awkwardly put in English, “hearing of the voice”), while in 22:9 it is in the accusative case (“did not hear the voice”). The difference, according to the commentators I have read, is that the former (genitive) usage means to hear a voice without necessarily understanding what the voice said, while the second usage (accusative) means to hear with understanding. They heard the sound of the voice (9:7), but didn’t understand what it was saying to Saul (22:9).

There is a similar situation in John 12:28-29, where Jesus prays, “Father, glorify your name,” and a voice from heaven says to Him, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.” The surrounding crowd (i.e., those to whom the message was not addressed) heard a sound, but thought that it had thundered, or that an angel had spoken to Him.

DaveBj
 
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DaveBj:
The difference between the two is that in Acts 9:7 the Greek work for “voice” is in the genitive case, (awkwardly put in English, “hearing of the voice”), while in 22:9 it is in the accusative case (“did not hear the voice”). The difference, according to the commentators I have read, is that the former (genitive) usage means to hear a voice without necessarily understanding what the voice said, while the second usage (accusative) means to hear with understanding. They heard the sound of the voice (9:7), but didn’t understand what it was saying to Saul (22:9).

There is a similar situation in John 12:28-29, where Jesus prays, “Father, glorify your name,” and a voice from heaven says to Him, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.” The surrounding crowd (i.e., those to whom the message was not addressed) heard a sound, but thought that it had thundered, or that an angel had spoken to Him.

DaveBj
:hmmm: A study of the Greek might be interesting. Do you think this hearing - understanding/not un derstanding also apply in acts where just after Pentecost, where the apostles were speaking in tongues? Some understood it in their own language, while others thought it was gibberish because they were drunk!
 
PS to DaveBJ

Would you have written the subject scriptures differently to show that there was no conflict then? Could you demonstrate?
 
catholic2 said:
:hmmm: A study of the Greek might be interesting. Do you think this hearing - understanding/not un derstanding also apply in acts where just after Pentecost, where the apostles were speaking in tongues? Some understood it in their own language, while others thought it was gibberish because they were drunk!

I have considered that this might be the case–those who would have wanted to hear, did hear, while those who would have not wanted to hear, thought they were hearing a bunch of drunks.

The reason for my thinking that comes from my own experience in pentecostalism. I am a polyglot–speak six languages, with varying degrees of fluency, and can recognize maybe 20 others. In my years of experience as a pentecostal and having listened to many people speak in tongues, I have never heard anything in a recognizable language. However, there are documented cases (which, unfortunately, I cannot lay may hands on from here, but I’ll bet the Seminary library at Lee University can) in which someone was speaking in tongues, and it was clearly heard and understood by someone of a different culture and language.
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catholic2:
Would you have written the subject scriptures differently to show that there was no conflict then? Could you demonstrate?
Sorry–I’m not going to second-guess Luke. If the commentators that I have cited were correct (i.e., that the difference between accusative case and genitive case was significant), then Luke’s writing was perfectly clear to him and to those who would have read what he wrote. It’s only when Acts was translated into other languages (starting with Latin) that the meaning started getting muddied up.

In any case, I can only read NT Greek, and that with some difficulty. I cannot write in it.

DaveBj
 
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DaveBj:
I have considered that this might be the case–those who would have wanted to hear, did hear, while those who would have not wanted to hear, thought they were hearing a bunch of drunks.

The reason for my thinking that comes from my own experience in pentecostalism. I am a polyglot–speak six languages, with varying degrees of fluency, and can recognize maybe 20 others. In my years of experience as a pentecostal and having listened to many people speak in tongues, I have never heard anything in a recognizable language. However, there are documented cases (which, unfortunately, I cannot lay may hands on from here, but I’ll bet the Seminary library at Lee University can) in which someone was speaking in tongues, and it was clearly heard and understood by someone of a different culture and language.

Sorry–I’m not going to second-guess Luke. If the commentators that I have cited were correct (i.e., that the difference between accusative case and genitive case was significant), then Luke’s writing was perfectly clear to him and to those who would have read what he wrote. It’s only when Acts was translated into other languages (starting with Latin) that the meaning started getting muddied up.

In any case, I can only read NT Greek, and that with some difficulty. I cannot write in it.

DaveBj
Well DaveBJ your response sort of ends this thread, I guess. You have explicity touched just on what I wanted to hear. Luke certainly communicated well with his contemporaries, and there was no conflict in those three accounts of Paul’s Damascus experience. I just wish that the translators could convey the nuances of the original language in such a fashion as to reflect what the writer meant. Thanks again.

(I wonder what that pre-Babel language might have been?)
 
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