Peace and Love In Quran

[planten]

**[85:13] اِنَّ بَطْشَ رَبِّكَ لَشَدِيْدٌؕ‏

[85:13] Surely the seizing of thy Lord is severe**.

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[85:13] اِنَّهٗ هُوَ يُبْدِئُ وَيُعِيْدُ‌ۚ‏

[85:13] He it is Who originates and reproduces;

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[85:14] وَهُوَ الْغَفُوْرُ الْوَدُوْدُۙ‏

[85:14] And He is the Most Forgiving, ** the Loving **; ۔

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[85:15] ذُوْ الْعَرْشِ الْمَجِيْدُ

[85:15] The Lord of the Throne, the Lord of honour;

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[85:16] فَعَّالٌ لِّمَا يُرِيْدُؕ‏

[85:16] Doer of whatever He wills.

 

[staffsgt7]

If the Koran is all peaceful like you two, planten and elwill, say it is then how come Muslims don’t practice what it says in that regard?

There are no groups of Muslims being charitable to others.

The only ones who have groups of charity are Jews and Christians. Over a billion Muslims and how come no visible charity group but the visible part we see are the persecution and killing of others?

Which makes what you guys are quoting as proof that those surahs were abrogated and replaced by the ‘sword’ surahs as true since those are the surahs that are being practiced. There is no effort to change the violent ones in Islam, nor the Sharia laws that back them up.

Muslims are the ones expelling people (Christians in Iraq as an example) from their homes. It is not the reverse that is being done.

This is why all the stuff you guys print is nullified. The actions by Muslims do not follow your words. We also have documented proof that the face of Islam changes as the numbers of Muslims grow too. Which proves again that these surahs you are trying to push off as something that is peaceful and loving to others is a bunch of hooey.

 

[dzheremi]

Careful about bringing up Iraq as an example of Muslim behaviors towards Christians, Sgt (though it totally is). I brought that up in a conversation recently and someone (I think it was elwill, but I might be wrong) responded with something like “So Iraq, the broken country, is your model for Muslims’ treatment of Christians?”

Of course NOT, but THAT’S where it’s happening…and in Egypt to the Copts, and in Sudan to the Christians and Animists and even the Muslims who refuse the hardline Arabist/Islamist program of the government, and to Christians in Nigeria, etc.

Are we REALLY supposed to believe that these are all coincidences?! I won’t. Not when the Qur’an is chock full of HATE SPEECH that calls on Muslims to fight and oppress others on account of what they do or do not believe.

“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” (9.29, Yusufali)

SICK!

 

[staffsgt7]

Careful about bringing up Iraq as an example of Muslim behaviors towards Christians, Sgt (though it totally is). I brought that up in a conversation recently and someone (I think it was elwill, but I might be wrong) responded with something like “So Iraq, the broken country, is your model for Muslims’ treatment of Christians?”

Of course NOT, but THAT’S where it’s happening…and in Egypt to the Copts, and in Sudan to the Christians and Animists and even the Muslims who refuse the hardline Arabist/Islamist program of the government, and to Christians in Nigeria, etc.

Are we REALLY supposed to believe that these are all coincidences?! I won’t. Not when the Qur’an is chock full of HATE SPEECH that calls on Muslims to fight and oppress others on account of what they do or do not believe.

“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” (9.29, Yusufali)

SICK!

Thanks for the warning. In Iraq we see Muslims killing more Muslims. Shia against Sunni and Sunni against Shia. Killing the Kurds. And no Muslim country helping out in a positive way and instead sending in their Jihadists to just stir up more hate and chaos. The Turks bar Kurds from entering their country and no one yelps like they yelp in regards to Israel. Egypt builds a fence to keep out the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians and not a peep, but let Israel build a fence and whoa the whole world complains even though it has proven to save lives. And the Saudis, they prefer the Jihadists leave Arabia and go train in Pakistan so they send their zakat in that direction and also in the direction of families of suicide bombers to the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians. Saudis don’t want the mess in their country.

Here is an article showing us how the face of Islam is changing in our own country.

The Koran doesn’t teach peace I don’t care how many abrogated surahs the Muslims post and how non-Muslims wish it did. It doesn’t. What we thought was peace from Islam was just Muslims whose numbers were not sufficient to feel comfortable demanding we subjugate to Islam.

It is all about subjugate… or else. ‘And if you are not of my sect of Islam then you haven’t subjugated the right way.’

 

[staffsgt7]

Check this out from a person from Indonesia. It shows us how Islam changed once it became a majority.

Hi… greetings from Indonesia
straigh to the points!!

facts in Indonesia:

1.It’s difficult to build churches. non muslims are forbid to hold religious events in their own house.

2.If you want to achieve higher level in Government’s job you must convert to Islam

3.Muslims are forbid to say Christmas greetings or non muslims greetings to their non muslim neighbor, friends

4.Muslims are forbid to shake hands with their non muslim neighbor, friends

5.Muslims are forbid to attend non muslims religious events

6.Muslims are forbid to accept food from their non muslim neighbor or friends

7.Interfaith marriage is forbid…so if you are non muslim you are forced to convert to islam

many more…

I can feel the love and tolerance. Yep, all those surahs that get printed just bring it out of each and every Muslim - NOT!:dts:

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

(Part 1/2)

“ One who hurts a non-Muslim, he hurts me and one who hurts me, hurts God.” (Hadith)
“Whoever hurts a non Muslim, I shall be his complainant and for whoever I am a complainant, I shall ask for his right on the day of Resurrection.” (Hadith)
“ Whoever persecutes a non Muslim or demands work from him beyond his capacity or takes something from him with evil intentions, I shall be a complainant against him on the day of Resurrection.”(Hadith)

And where are these hadiths from? I mean what source, who collected them, etc. There are other hadiths I could easily cite (and from sahih hadith sources) which do not fit well with them.

Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah’s Apostle said, “May Allah’s curse be on the Jews for they built the places of worship at the graves of their Prophets.” [Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 8, Number 428]

Yahya related to me from Malik from Ismail ibn Abi Hakim that he heard Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz say, “One of the last things that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said was, ‘May Allah fight the Jews and the Christians. They took the graves of their Prophets as places of prostration . Two deens shall not co-exist in the land of the Arabs.’” [Malik Muwatta Book 45, Number 45.5.17; emphasis mine]

Narrated 'Abdullah:
Allah’s Apostle said, “The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims.” [Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17; emphasis mine]

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
The Prophet cursed effeminate men (those men who are in the similitude (assume the manners of women) and those women who assume the manners of men, and he said, “Turn them out of your houses .” The Prophet turned out such-and-such man, and 'Umar turned out such-and-such woman. [ibid Volume 7, Book 72, Number 774]

Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Do not greet the Jews and the Christians before they greet you and when you meet any one of them on the roads force him to go to the narrowest part of it. [Sahih Muslim Book 026, Number 5389]

Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah’s Apostle said, “If a husband calls his wife to his bed (i.e. to have sexual relation) and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the angels will curse her till morning.” [Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 460]

What do we draw from this? That people who choose to willingly leave Islam are OK’d, by Mohammad himself, to be killed. That Mohammad asked God to curse the Jews and Christians simply for their religious practices, and went so far as to say two deens (religions) shall not exist in Arabia. That homosexual men and women were ordered to be kicked out of Muslim homes. That Muslims are allowed to shove Jews and Christians out of the way. That women who refuse to please their husbands sexually are going to be cursed by angels of God…all in all, this does not sound very loving, understanding, or peaceful.

A verse in Surah Maidah states, "If anyone slew a person* unless it be for murder or for speading mischief in the land* it would be as If he slew the whole people: and if anyone saved a life. It would be as if he saved the lift of the whole people. " (Al-Maidah. verse 32)

You are only presenting part of the verse.

On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. [S. 5:32; Yusuf Ali; part you left out in bold]

The Koran is talking about rules given to the Jews, not the Muslims. The previous verses discuss the story of Cain and Abel, and indeed this anecdote - “he who saves one life saves the world entire” - was taken from the Talmud, and in fact is quoted at the end of Schindler’s List.

And again, there is no getting around S. 9:29:

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. [S. 9:29; Yusuf Ali]

“Even if they are People of the Book” (Jews and Christians) you are to make war with them. Until when? Until they want to make peace? No…“until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” This does not sound very peaceful or loving.

Even more hilarious, in the following verse:

The Jews call 'Uzair [Ezra] a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! [S. 9:30; Yusuf Ali]

Jews do not worship Ezra as the Son of God. Even hadith sources admit that it was only a small group of Jews in Medina who did that. Therefore, Allah is cursing all the Jews (and is apparently asking Muslims to make war against them) for something they don’t even do! Again, where is the peace, love and understanding that we are expected to find? For even if there do exist passages with a smattering of love or understanding, they can only be compared to passages such as these.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

(Part 2/2)

It means that if you suffer injuries and if you are competent, you may take revenge of the same degree. Revenge is permitted but self-restraint or forbearance is preferable. If you are patient that would be better for you and those who are witness. (Fawaid-e-Usmani). [emphasis mine]

I brought this up in another thread, but that’s the main problem behind the moral teachings of Islam. It presents this kind of back-handed interpretation of tolerance, where it says intolerance is perfectly fine but it would be “preferred” if tolerance was shown. The problem is once you put that intolerance down for valid use, people are going to use it.

Suppose I were the commander of a military unit, and I’m taking prisoners. I tell my men, “Well, you can kill them if you want, but I’d prefer them alive,” and they go and kill all the prisoners. Am I guilty? Of course I am, because I told them they could kill them if they want. It doesn’t matter if I said I would “prefer” them alive, the fact is I gave the go for the murders to happen.

The teachings of Christ, on the other hand, are very clear:

Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven.” [Matt 18:21-22]

“But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” [Matt 5:39]

And behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword and struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his ear. Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword.” [Matt 26:51-52]

“To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either…and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back.” [Luke 6:29-30]

“If you love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to get back the same amount. But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil.” [Luke 6:32-35]

If someone strikes you, let them strike you. If someone steals from you, give even more to them. If someone is your enemy and plots evil…love them. Christ never once said “revenge is permitted” or even allowed a hint of evil to be mixed among the good. That would have been a double standard. We are expected to show humility and love to those who have it not, even if they revile and hate us.

The Koran, unfortunately, does not teach that. It teaches, as I said, double standards and permits its followers evil when they so desire it. You can make war against your enemies, you can hate your enemies, and you can bring them into a state of submission. If the Koran did indeed come from a spirit, it was not the Spirit of God.

 

[staffsgt7]

Byzantine_Wolf, nice post and it gets to the point.

 

[nohamaria]

(Part 2/2)

I brought this up in another thread, but that’s the main problem behind the moral teachings of Islam. It presents this kind of back-handed interpretation of tolerance, where it says intolerance is perfectly fine but it would be “preferred” if tolerance was shown. The problem is once you put that intolerance down for valid use, people are going to use it.

Suppose I were the commander of a military unit, and I’m taking prisoners. I tell my men, “Well, you can kill them if you want, but I’d prefer them alive,” and they go and kill all the prisoners. Am I guilty? Of course I am, because I told them they could kill them if they want. It doesn’t matter if I said I would “prefer” them alive, the fact is I gave the go for the murders to happen.

The teachings of Christ, on the other hand, are very clear:

Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven.” [Matt 18:21-22]

“But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” [Matt 5:39]

And behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword and struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his ear. Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword.” [Matt 26:51-52]

“To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either…and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back.” [Luke 6:29-30]

“If you love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to get back the same amount. But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil.” [Luke 6:32-35]

If someone strikes you, let them strike you. If someone steals from you, give even more to them. If someone is your enemy and plots evil…love them. Christ never once said “revenge is permitted” or even allowed a hint of evil to be mixed among the good. That would have been a double standard. We are expected to show humility and love to those who have it not, even if they revile and hate us.

The Koran, unfortunately, does not teach that. It teaches, as I said, double standards and permits its followers evil when they so desire it. You can make war against your enemies, you can hate your enemies, and you can bring them into a state of submission. If the Koran did indeed come from a spirit, it was not the Spirit of God.

Yes Brother it is rightly said.
Hope that our friends the Muslims will understand
the differences between both teachings.
And I hope that God will open their eyes and hearts
to understand and react according to his true Will.
God Bless you all.
Thanks for all the posters.
Nohamaria

 

[planten]

Hi… greetings from Indonesia
straigh to the points!!

facts in Indonesia:

1.It’s difficult to build churches. non muslims are forbid to hold religious events in their own house.

That is not Islamic teaching. It is happening in many Muslim countries, even in Arab countries.But that is all wrong and unislamic. The Christians should be allowed to built their places of worship (churches) and Muslims should allow the upkeep of those churches. The real Muslims should look after the safety of those palces of worship.

2.If you want to achieve higher level in Government’s job you must convert to Islam

That is another bad discriminatory practice, UnIslamic.

3.Muslims are forbid to say Christmas greetings or non muslims greetings to their non muslim neighbor, friends

Some misguided muslim leders have taught all these bad things to the poor muslims. They will not gain anything out of such bad things.

4.Muslims are forbid to shake hands with their non muslim neighbor, friends

My remarks are same as for No.3 above. That is inhuman and UnIslamic.

5.Muslims are forbid to attend non muslims religious events

I had no problem attending X-mas and New Year events. Even now I go to greet the local christians on 25 December. They serve me with X-mas cake.

X-mas is an event to be celebrated. It is the birthday of Lord Jesus. Birthday may be celebrated. In fact Muslims hsould do that for some special reason because it is according to the teachings of Quran, i.e. Jesus was (and is) a sign of Allah, i.e. in Arabic they call it Ayatullah. (Verse 19:21) and a mercy for the mankind.
Ayatullah is a sign of Allah. The sign does not vanish. Allah keeps it alive (visible) in some way. So Jesus is even remembered today in many ways, say, by a Calendar in his name which every man on this earth has to use.

The Jews and the Christians and Hindus and Muslims and Budhists and Japanese (all people of the world) are bound to use that Calendar which Allah has established in the name of Jesus. There is no other Universal calendat today, other than that in the name of Jesus.

6.Muslims are forbid to accept food from their non muslim neighbor or friends

But Quran says that Muslims are allowed to eat the food of the people of the book and they are allowed to Marry the ladies of the people of the books (Verse 5:5).

It appears that the Msulims of Indonesia ( and others too) are making a new law (Sharia). That is a sin of the highest order. They should refrain of such bad practices forthwith.

7.Interfaith marriage is forbid…so if you are non muslim you are forced to convert to islam

It has been disproved in No.6 above. Intermarriage is allowed.

many more…

All the above news about the Indonesian Muslims ahve been proved to be wrong. There may be many more similar bad ideas in their heads. Only God can help them come to the proper path. May Allah help those Indonesians who cannot help themselves.

 

[staffsgt7]

The building of churches is not stated in Sharia laws as an accepted thing to do, so planten maybe you should go tell your fellow Muslims how wrong they are and to change Sharia laws. Do you blog on Muslim websites and tell them how wrong they and their laws are? If so, which blogs do you do this on? I am wondering this about many Muslims on this thread who expend energy on telling us the things instead of their own.

Government jobs are also forbidden in Islamic (sharia) laws.

I could go down the list but it seems you don’t know Sharia laws very well. What is happening in Indonesia is very much a part of Sharia laws.

But please tell me which Muslim websites you blog on that you are trying to convince the Muslims how wrong they are so maybe some of us can join you there.

 

[staffsgt7]

Here is some proof that in Indonesia the Muslims are following Sharia laws and destroying a Church, and doing a little clean up of the population of dhimmi too.

Aahh, I can feeeel the love.

 

[jakasaki]

Here is some proof that in Indonesia the Muslims are following Sharia laws and destroying a Church, and doing a little clean up of the population of dhimmi too.

Aahh, I can feeeel the love.

I was just reading the same article but on another website…

**CATHOLIC WORLD NEWS

Muslim mob storms church near Jakarta

December 18, 2009

An estimated 1,000 Islamic zealots rampaged through a Catholic church that is under construction outside Jakarta. The building, which had been near completion, sustained significant damage in the surprise attack. Indonesian authorities are encouraging Catholics to go ahead with Christmas services, despite fears of renewed violence.

catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=4963**

 

[planten]

I was just reading the same article but on another website…

**CATHOLIC WORLD NEWS

Muslim mob storms church near Jakarta

December 18, 2009

An estimated 1,000 Islamic zealots rampaged through a Catholic church that is under construction outside Jakarta.** The building, which had been near completion, sustained significant damage in the surprise attack. Indonesian authorities are encouraging Catholics to go ahead with Christmas services, despite fears of renewed violence.

catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=4963

jakasaki, they are doing it according to their law of Sharia. They are doing a sacred work of destroying a place of worship.

That is the understanding of the Indonesian Muslims and bangladeshi Muslims and pakistani Muslims. That is their Sharia.

But that is not the Sharia of Muhammad. That is why I said that they will not succeed in implementing their bad version of Sharia in the world. I am not against the Sharia laws. They are good for makind. But Iam against their implementation. Their is no order to common Muslims to try to enforce the laws of Sahria in the whole world. There is no such order.

And the bad version of their own man made Sharia laws can never be implemented. If the Indonesians will persist in their folly, they will suffer very badly. God will punish them and destroy them, surely.

 

[jewells17]

then it is not universal if it is so limited and so hard to understand. It is not for all people for all times as they like to claim. I wonder why if people think that this is so above normal people’s understanding that it was revealed to a guy who couldn’t read or write?

My take on it is that when we read it and understand it they like to tell us that it is beyond our meager selves to understand it because we find out that it is a mish mash and we need the hadith and sira to understand it.

It is a poorly written book that has a lot of bad stuff in it and to say it is beyond us infidels to know what it says is just a bunch of hogwash.

The Complete Infidel’s Guide to the Koran

http://64.130.13.128/2009/09/13/book98_infidelskoran.jpg

Here is an interesting article on how the shia and Sunni each blame each other for distortions in the Koran. Each acknowledge that there are corruptions in the Koran. The Yemeni Koran that they found had erasures and places where text was overwritten other text.

And if you want to see how the fruits of the spirit are manifesting through them…go to www.jihadwatch.org and sign up for the daily newsletter. It will open your eyes and deepen your prayer life. Also…look up the Battle of Lepanto. Then…go get a rosary and get started.

 

[schaick]

The peaceful verses are early in Mohammad’s career and the hateful, prejudiced ones came later. Muslims will tell you that no verse is abrogated. Allah sends a verse but then later will send a verse that is “better”.

2.106
YUSUFALI: None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?
PICKTHAL: Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things?
SHAKIR: Whatever communications We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things?

So all the hateful, prejudiced verses are the “better” ones.

 

[planten]

The peaceful verses are early in Mohammad’s career and the hateful, prejudiced ones came later. Muslims will tell you that no verse is abrogated. Allah sends a verse but then later will send a verse that is “better”.

2.106
YUSUFALI: None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?
PICKTHAL: Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things?
SHAKIR: Whatever communications We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things?

So all the hateful, prejudiced verses are the “better” ones.

Schaick, There is no abrogation of verses in Quran. The verse 2:106 states: See 2:106 please.

"We do not abrogate any verse nor do we cause it to be forgotten, we bring a better one in its place or a one similar (equal) to it.

It could mean that no verse is abrogated or forgotten but a better one or an equally good one can be given. So all the verses will remain in place. They will not be cut off. Some more better verses can be revealed.

But those new revealed verses will never abrogate (nullify) the earlier verses. Please remember that there are verses of the bibleOT and bibleNT too.

I believe that the verses of peace and love in the Quran and those about being just, they still stand firmly. They are not abrogated. The Muslims should love every one and should shun all hatred towards other faith people.

 

[jakasaki]

Bump posting for Elwill to reply to B_Wolf’s inquiry. Elwill…See bold font size 3.

Originally Posted by elwill
“ One who hurts a non-Muslim, he hurts me and one who hurts me, hurts God.” (Hadith)
“Whoever hurts a non Muslim, I shall be his complainant and for whoever I am a complainant, I shall ask for his right on the day of Resurrection.” (Hadith)
“ Whoever persecutes a non Muslim or demands work from him beyond his capacity or takes something from him with evil intentions, I shall be a complainant against him on the day of Resurrection.”(Hadith)

(Part 1/2)

And where are these hadiths from? I mean what source, who collected them, etc. There are other hadiths I could easily cite (and from sahih hadith sources) which do not fit well with them.

Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah’s Apostle said, “May Allah’s curse be on the Jews for they built the places of worship at the graves of their Prophets.” [Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 8, Number 428]

Yahya related to me from Malik from Ismail ibn Abi Hakim that he heard Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz say, “One of the last things that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said was, ‘May Allah fight the Jews and the Christians. They took the graves of their Prophets as places of prostration . Two deens shall not co-exist in the land of the Arabs.’” [Malik Muwatta Book 45, Number 45.5.17; emphasis mine]

Narrated 'Abdullah:
Allah’s Apostle said, “The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims.” [Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17; emphasis mine]

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
The Prophet cursed effeminate men (those men who are in the similitude (assume the manners of women) and those women who assume the manners of men, and he said, “Turn them out of your houses .” The Prophet turned out such-and-such man, and 'Umar turned out such-and-such woman. [ibid Volume 7, Book 72, Number 774]

Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Do not greet the Jews and the Christians before they greet you and when you meet any one of them on the roads force him to go to the narrowest part of it. [Sahih Muslim Book 026, Number 5389]

Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah’s Apostle said, “If a husband calls his wife to his bed (i.e. to have sexual relation) and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the angels will curse her till morning.” [Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 460]

What do we draw from this? That people who choose to willingly leave Islam are OK’d, by Mohammad himself, to be killed. That Mohammad asked God to curse the Jews and Christians simply for their religious practices, and went so far as to say two deens (religions) shall not exist in Arabia. That homosexual men and women were ordered to be kicked out of Muslim homes. That Muslims are allowed to shove Jews and Christians out of the way. That women who refuse to please their husbands sexually are going to be cursed by angels of God…all in all, this does not sound very loving, understanding, or peaceful.

You are only presenting part of the verse.

On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. [S. 5:32; Yusuf Ali; part you left out in bold]

The Koran is talking about rules given to the Jews, not the Muslims. The previous verses discuss the story of Cain and Abel, and indeed this anecdote - “he who saves one life saves the world entire” - was taken from the Talmud, and in fact is quoted at the end of Schindler’s List.

And again, there is no getting around S. 9:29:

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. [S. 9:29; Yusuf Ali]

“Even if they are People of the Book” (Jews and Christians) you are to make war with them. Until when? Until they want to make peace? No…“until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” This does not sound very peaceful or loving.

Even more hilarious, in the following verse:

The Jews call 'Uzair [Ezra] a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! [S. 9:30; Yusuf Ali]

Jews do not worship Ezra as the Son of God. Even hadith sources admit that it was only a small group of Jews in Medina who did that. Therefore, Allah is cursing all the Jews (and is apparently asking Muslims to make war against them) for something they don’t even do! Again, where is the peace, love and understanding that we are expected to find? For even if there do exist passages with a smattering of love or understanding, they can only be compared to passages such as these.

 

[planten]

A slight correction in the translation of the abrogation verse 2:106 is necessary. Please again:

** “We do not abrogate any verse nor do we cause it to be forgotten, we bring a better one or a one similar (equal) to it”**

That is in keeping strictly to the words of the verse in Arabic. If the christian friends will forget the abrogation in Quran then we can get on with the subject of the Loving God. The Forgiving (Al-Ghafoor) and Loving God (Al-Wadood). Thanks.

Islam supports all believers who believe in a Creator and they pray to him. They may be Hindus or Jews or Budhists or Christians. For them, God is specially kind and Merciful. His name (attribute) is Al-Raheem.

But for all other living bodies, men and animals and plants, for the believers as well as the non-believers (Atheists) God is kind and Merciful in a different way that He is Merciful to them too. The Sun shines and he sends rain for them too.

But the believers (in God) benefit from the attribute Al-Rehman as well Al-Raheem. The Al-Raheem attribute is for those who believe in God and pray to him. He hears their prayers and replies to them. He is a Living, Loving, Merciful God.

 

[planten]

The building of churches is not stated in Sharia laws as an accepted thing to do, so planten maybe you should go tell your fellow Muslims how wrong they are and to change Sharia laws. Do you blog on Muslim websites and tell them how wrong they and their laws are? If so, which blogs do you do this on? I am wondering this about many Muslims on this thread who expend energy on telling us the things instead of their own.

Government jobs are also forbidden in Islamic (sharia) laws.

I could go down the list but it seems you don’t know Sharia laws very well. What is happening in Indonesia is very much a part of Sharia laws.

But please tell me which Muslim websites you blog on that you are trying to convince the Muslims how wrong they are so maybe some of us can join you there.

I do not blog or visit any other site/ forum except this CAF. Previously, my activity was mis-directed, against catholics. Now, I hope to help Muslims find their proper way.Thanks.