Peaceful Islam? Some disagree

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Estimating how many potential terrorists reside in one’s country is a highly inexact business, but there’s a striking correlation between a British government report recently leaked to London’s Times and a new opinion survey commissioned by the Daily Telegraph.

Drawing on unidentified “intelligence,” the government report (analyzed by me at “The Next London Bombing”) finds as many as 16,000 “British Muslims actively engaged in terrorist activity.”

Then, using standard survey research methods, the reputable YouGov polling firm interviewed 526 Muslim adults across Great Britain online during July 15-22, weighing the data to reflect the British Muslim population’s age, gender, and countries of origin. The survey found that 1 percent of them, or “about 16,000 individuals, declare themselves willing, possibly even eager, to embrace violence” in the effort to bring an end to “decadent and immoral” Western society.

Should their ranks really be so thick, such a huge number of potential terrorists could cause an unprecedented security crisis for Britain, with all the attendant economic, social, political, and cultural ramifications one can imagine.

The YouGov survey contains many other statistics that should interest, if not shock, Britons and other Westerners.
  • Muslims who see the 7/7 bombing attacks in London as justified on balance: 6 percent.
  • Who feel sympathy for the “feelings and motives” of those who carried out the 7/7 attacks: 24 percent.
  • Understand “why some people behave in that way”: 56 percent.
  • Disagree with Tony Blair’s description of the ideology of the London bombers as “perverted and poisonous”: 26 percent.
  • Feel not loyal towards Britain: 16 percent.
  • Agree that “Western society is decadent and immoral and that Muslims should seek to bring it to an end”: 32 percent willing to use non-violent means and (as noted above) 1 percent willing to use violence “if necessary.” Just 56 percent of Muslims agree with the statement that “Western society may not be perfect but Muslims should live with it and not seek to bring it to an end.”
  • Agree that “British political leaders don’t mean it when they talk about equality. They regard the lives of white British people as more valuable than the lives of British Muslims”: 52 percent.
  • Dismiss political party leaders as insincere when saying “they respect Islam and want to co-operate with Britain’s Muslim communities”: 50 percent.
  • Doubt that anyone charged with and tried for the 7/7 attacks would receive a fair trial: 44 percent.
  • Would not inform on a Muslim religious leader “trying to ‘radicalise’ young Muslims by preaching hatred against the West”: 10 percent.
  • Do not think people have a duty to go to the police if they “see something in the community that makes them feel suspicious”: 14 percent.
  • Believe other Muslims would be reluctant to go to the police “about anything they see that makes them suspicious”: 41 percent.
  • Would inform the police if they believed they knew about the possible planning of a terrorist attack: 73 percent. (In this case, the Daily Telegraph did not make available the negative percentage.)
 
Another opinion poll, this one commissioned by Sky News and carried out by Communicate Research (which interviewed 462 UK-based Muslims by telephone) found similar results:
  • Muslims who agree with what the London suicide bombers did: 2 percent.
  • Who believe there is a Koranic justification for the bombings: 5 percent.
  • Disagree with the statement that “Muslim clerics who preach violence against the West are out of touch with mainstream Muslim opinion”: 46 percent.
  • Think of themselves as Muslim first and British second: 46 percent. Another 42 percent do not differentiate between the identities. A mere 12 percent see themselves as British first and Muslim second.
Comments: (1) It is hard to say which is the most alarming of these many worrisome statistics, but two stand out. That less than three-quarters of Muslims in Britain indicate they would tell the police about an impending terrorist attack raises grave doubts about the Blair government’s tactic of getting Muslims to police their own community. That one-third of Muslims do not accept British society and want to end it, presumably to pave the way for an Islamic order, casts comparable doubts on Britain’s much-vaunted multicultural ideal.

(2) Even the Telegraph’s interpreter of its survey, Professor Anthony King of Essex University, feels compelled to sugar the results, calling them “at once reassuring and disturbing, in some ways even alarming,” whatever that means. In several specific instances, he turns hair-raising statistics into cheerful ones (that 73 percent would warn of an impending terrorist attack he deems “impressive”). The newspaper’s and the professor’s panglossian attitude makes one wonder what might wake the British to the Islamist hell growing in their midst.

danielpipes.org/article/2797
 
UnworthySoul said:
Another opinion poll, this one commissioned by Sky News and carried out by Communicate Research (which interviewed 462 UK-based Muslims by telephone) found similar results:
  • Muslims who agree with what the London suicide bombers did: 2 percent.
  • Who believe there is a Koranic justification for the bombings: 5 percent.
  • Disagree with the statement that “Muslim clerics who preach violence against the West are out of touch with mainstream Muslim opinion”: 46 percent.
  • Think of themselves as Muslim first and British second: 46 percent. Another 42 percent do not differentiate between the identities. A mere 12 percent see themselves as British first and Muslim second.
Comments: (1) It is hard to say which is the most alarming of these many worrisome statistics, but two stand out. That less than three-quarters of Muslims in Britain indicate they would tell the police about an impending terrorist attack raises grave doubts about the Blair government’s tactic of getting Muslims to police their own community. That one-third of Muslims do not accept British society and want to end it, presumably to pave the way for an Islamic order, casts comparable doubts on Britain’s much-vaunted multicultural ideal.

(2) Even the Telegraph’s interpreter of its survey, Professor Anthony King of Essex University, feels compelled to sugar the results, calling them “at once reassuring and disturbing, in some ways even alarming,” whatever that means. In several specific instances, he turns hair-raising statistics into cheerful ones (that 73 percent would warn of an impending terrorist attack he deems “impressive”). The newspaper’s and the professor’s panglossian attitude makes one wonder what might wake the British to the Islamist hell growing in their midst.

danielpipes.org/article/2797

Wow! Real eye openers!
 
Pope won’t call Islam
religion of peace


Pope Benedict XVI yesterday refused to declare Islam “a religion of peace.” Asked by reporters whether Islam could be considered a religion of peace shortly before entering a meeting with priests and deacons of Valle d’Aosta in northwest Italy where he is spending a brief holiday, the pontiff refused to reply positively.

“I would not like to use big words to apply generic labels,” he replied. “It certainly contains elements that can favor peace, it also has other elements: We must always seek the best elements.”

The day before, he asked God to stop the terrorists.

more…
 
The idea of saying that the bombers and jihadists are an untypical “perversion of Islam” is foolosh IMO.

Throughout history islam has been an aggressive religion. Even the non-violent muslims in Britain want to replace British culture with islamic culture eventually. Islam is a religion that needs to dominate the state - which is why it is involved in so many separatist movements and civil-wars around the world.

We really have to take a hard look at Islam and either get it to shake off its expansionist and oppressive aspects, or else take measures to keep it constrained
 
Interesting that none of the Muslims here have bothered to address this thread. If I had made baseless claims then I would not think it a big deal. Indeed, I’d agree with them not responding to this, but this post is not baseless at all. So again we have silence from that quarter. I will pray for them. Hopefully they will come into the Light of Christ.
 
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UnworthySoul:
Interesting that none of the Muslims here have bothered to address this thread. If I had made baseless claims then I would not think it a big deal. Indeed, I’d agree with them not responding to this, but this post is not baseless at all. So again we have silence from that quarter. I will pray for them. Hopefully they will come into the Light of Christ.
i think we muslims have come to a point where we understand that no matter what we say, **some ** people will keep insisting that our religion is based on violence. We will all die one day and the truth will be made clear. SO no need to really waste time and brain cells trying to explain and reexplain Islam here to those who refuse to understand.

I personally have stopped responding to people with such silly claims. may God guide us all.
 
Agree that “Western society is decadent and immoral and that Muslims should seek to bring it to an end”: 32 percent willing to use non-violent means and (as noted above) 1 percent willing to use violence “if necessary.” Just 56 percent of Muslims agree with the statement that “Western society may not be perfect but Muslims should live with it and not seek to bring it to an end.”
What’s suprising about this? Catholics have been saying it for 100 years. Modern Western society is a moral travesty.
 
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Ghosty:
What’s suprising about this? Catholics have been saying it for 100 years. Modern Western society is a moral travesty.
Ghosty, you dont understand. Anything a Muslim says is terrorizing and violent.
 
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Faith101:
Ghosty, you dont understand. Anything a Muslim says is terrorizing and violent.
Oh stop playing the martyr. I have asked questions of Muslims here only to be told by them that I “don’t know what I’m talking about” or that the Apostles “made up Christianity as they went along” and had “no idea what they were talking about” so quit acting like you’re such a persecuted group.

What I have posted is polling results. Are you implying these results are made up? How can you back that up if that is your claim?

My reasoning for putting this thread here was to ask how you who are followers of Mohammed are to combat this type of thought.

What do you think of the results of the polling and what should be done about it?

You say it’s a silly claim, but seriously, what are we supposed to think when we see material such as that which is posted at the start of the thread? Ignore it? I don’t think so.
 
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UnworthySoul:
Oh stop playing the martyr. I have asked questions of Muslims here only to be told by them that I “don’t know what I’m talking about” or that the Apostles “made up Christianity as they went along” and had “no idea what they were talking about” so quit acting like you’re such a persecuted group.

What I have posted is polling results. Are you implying these results are made up? How can you back that up if that is your claim?

My reasoning for putting this thread here was to ask how you who are followers of Mohammed are to combat this type of thought.

What do you think of the results of the polling and what should be done about it?

You say it’s a silly claim, but seriously, what are we supposed to think when we see material such as that which is posted at the start of the thread? Ignore it? I don’t think so.
Someone on another thread posted this poll also…it is my understanding that the poeple taking the poll where paid…as to the comment by Faith101-Anything a Muslim says is terrorizing and violent.
You wonder why muslims dont come onto this thread…with comments like that (which are untrue and show ignorance) why should they?! forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=66211 just some more views on this at this thread.
 
A balanced look at violent and peaceful Islam can be found in Stephen Schwartz The Two Faces of Islam . He is himself a Muslim who abhores terrorism and points to the groups within Islam that support it.

Jonathon
 
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Ghosty:
What’s suprising about this? Catholics have been saying it for 100 years. Modern Western society is a moral travesty.
Exactly, Modern western society is decadent.
What we need is to transform it into a true Christian society.

And for that Christians of all denominations have to band together.
Alogwith with all religious people, hindus, buddhists, muslims, jews.

Recently I encountered a Catholic convert to Islam.

A woman, who led a jummah, or obligatory friday prayer, for a mixed gender congregation.

She told me, she was happy about 7 catholic women being ordained as priests.

I told her, that unlike the politically correct westerners, I do not beleive that Men and women are created equally, but each to play their part in the plan of God.
Equal in status, but not equal in function.

This woman was actually angry with me, she said when women can be surgeons and soldiers, can they not be preists?

She calls herself muslim, but was originally catholic, she thinks that islam has liberated her, now she is fighting within islam for womens liberation.

Sorry I am rambling, but I was perturbed by this woman.

I wanted to tell her, Ah…it wasnt christianity and it isnt islam, for you it is about rebelling against authority.
 
I wanted to tell her, Ah…it wasnt christianity and it isnt islam, for you it is about rebelling against authority.
Exactly! She was likely never actually Catholic in practice, only in name. She is like a “Muslim” who eats pork once a week.
 
This is a perspective question, but what type of Islam did Muhammed support? Was he a pacifist? Would Muhammed call Islam a “religion of peace”? If you want to know the true tenets of the faith, you have to go back to the model. For Christians, that is Christ. For Muslims, that is Muhammed. I think we need to be objective in exploring this vexing question. If “Muslim” pacifists are the ones who are trying to protray Islam as a peaceful religion, when historically it never has been, then are they not the ones who are the “extremists”? We have to take a careful look at Islam through the lense of history to see what the true tenets of the faith are. We have to look at Muhammed, the model of the faith, to see what the real intentions of the faith are. While I agree that there are some past Islamic leaders, such as Sal Addin, who were considered fair and just, there are many more who used warfare and conquest as a means of spreading the religion. Now mind you, all major world religions have done this, Jews, Christians, Hindus, Muslims, and Christians. The question germain to this thread however is, was Muhammed a “peaceful religionist”?
 
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Karin:
it is my understanding that the poeple taking the poll where paid…
I’m afraid you’re going to have to show a source on that one. There is nothing I have seen to suggest these people were paid. What is your source to suggest such?
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Karin:
You wonder why muslims dont come onto this thread…with comments like that (which are untrue and show ignorance) why should they?! /QUOTE]

Comments like what? What did I say that is untrue?
 
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UnworthySoul:
I’m afraid you’re going to have to show a source on that one. There is nothing I have seen to suggest these people were paid. What is your source to suggest such? Yes, I will track downthe post that refered to this poll.
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Karin:
You wonder why muslims dont come onto this thread…with comments like that (which are untrue and show ignorance) why should they?! /QUOTE]

Comments like what? What did I say that is untrue? Not you UnworthySoul but this was directed at Faith101 please see the post again. (as to the comment by Faith101-Anything a Muslim says is terrorizing and violent.
You wonder why muslims dont come onto this thread…with comments like that (which are untrue and show ignorance) why should they?!**)
 
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UnworthySoul:
I’m afraid you’re going to have to show a source on that one. There is nothing I have seen to suggest these people were paid. What is your source to suggest such?

/QUOTE]
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=65424
see post # 81%between%
It is not my source but they person that posted this comment regarding the poll.

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon1.gif Re: Police: Fatal Subway Shooting Was Mistake
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karin
Just wondering here…but are there stats for nonmuslim opinions to these things??? Be nice to compare the two.

This poll is seriously flawed. The sample is very small and the respondents are paid. Regular respondents can easily adjust their answers so that they are called back for the next poll for which they are also paid.

 
Ummm, that is not a source. I was asking for documentation that says these people were paid for the poll. Not someone on a messageboard saying they were paid, I can just as easily say they were not paid.
 
Does this count?? Taken right from the YouGov website.
yougov.com/yougov_website/asp_besAboutUs/bes_aboIntro.asp?sID=1&wId=0&UID=
Because of the efficiencies of automated fieldwork (panel respondents - incentivised by cash payments - complete surveys online on receipt of an email), significant cost-savings are passed on to the client.
yougov.com/yougov_website/asp_besUsers/bes_useRegistrationIntro.asp?wID=0&uID=
How does it work?****Step 1 - Register with the Consumer PanelThis sets up your YouGov membership account. All we ask for is basic demographic information that enables us to build a profile for you. Additionally we ask you to define a username and a password, which will enable you to log onto our system. On completing the registration profile, we will immediately credit your account with ?1. **Step 2 - Fill out our surveys **We are able to offer cash incentives to you for filling out surveys. We will send you an email alert when we have a survey we would like you to complete. Each survey is either a ?paid for? or prize survey. For each completed survey, we will either credit your YouGov account with the advised sum of money or enter you into a prize draw.Step 3 - Collect your cheque or prizeIf you are a prize draw winner, you will be sent the prize through the post. Also, when your YouGov account reaches ?50 we will send you a cash cheque.
 
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