Peculiar Service

[Bergon]

We went to an unusual service yesterday. It was our nephew’s leaving service; he leaves primary school this term and starts secondary school next term. The service was held in an Anglican church.

The minister wore no vestments. There were two secular songs but no hymns. A poem was read out but there were no biblical readings. The rest of the service consisted of the children doing sketches about school life but which had no religious basis.

The minister sat down throughout most of the service. He stood at the end and gave a blessing: that was the only religious element.

Even though it was not a Catholic service we would have expected some religious elements. The school isn’t even a secular one, it’s a faith school. It was more like a school assembly.

We have no idea why it was called a service or why it was held in a church.

 

[englishredrose]

Sounds more like a leaving/ presentation type of event and agreed the word ‘service’ may have been overused etc.

For Anglicans do wear Vestaments just like their Roman counterparts for a service whether it Communion based or not.

But rest assured God will still have been very much present even if the word ‘service’ may have been inappropriately applied. I wasn’t there so wouldn’t know. But Service doesn’t mean Sacramental Presence as such. Or at least I wouldn’t have thought so. ie it don’t have to be a baptism, confirmation, communion, sick, funeral, healing, confession, or marriage. If they were young children then it be a low key service that accommodates their inclusion into the service. A light hearted very informal service is still a service.

Just because no obvious religious theme - by the way, what makes it ‘religious’ per se. It still can be religious even though it very up to date. Do you know what the sketches were. Children would fidget through any reading, but given little playlets then they are involved. Just as reglious with an upto date theme to reach the children of today.

Hope this thread don’t go where I fear…

 

[Bergon]

Sounds more like a leaving/ presentation type of event and agreed the word ‘service’ may have been overused etc.

For Anglicans do wear Vestaments just like their Roman counterparts for a service whether it Communion based or not.

But rest assured God will still have been very much present even if the word ‘service’ may have been inappropriately applied. I wasn’t there so wouldn’t know. But Service doesn’t mean Sacramental Presence as such. Or at least I wouldn’t have thought so. ie it don’t have to be a baptism, confirmation, communion, sick, funeral, healing, confession, or marriage. If they were young children then it be a low key service that accommodates their inclusion into the service. A light hearted very informal service is still a service.

Just because no obvious religious theme - by the way, what makes it ‘religious’ per se. It still can be religious even though it very up to date. Do you know what the sketches were. Children would fidget through any reading, but given little playlets then they are involved. Just as reglious with an upto date theme to reach the children of today.

Hope this thread don’t go where I fear…

The sketches were things like “my first day at school”. One of them was Billy Goat Gruff. The children were eleven year olds. I do understand what you are saying. But, you’d think that a ‘service’ in a church would be in some way “religious”. The things I’d have expected would have been a reading from the Bible. I don’t think it would have been more challenging than listening to a poem. At least a prayer even one worded at the children’s level of understanding. I think the event would have been better in school. It might also have saved the children a walk about a mile long from school to the church at the hottest part of an extremely hot day. Please do not misinterpret what I’m saying. I’m not bemoaning the fact the children were walked to church. I just feel if we’re in church then it should by religious or “churchy”. By that I mean prayers, hymns biblical readings. I don’t think we should hide or shelter children from religion. I think I ought to make it very clear that I’m not Protestant bashing. I can think of a few Catholic parishes where similar events might happen. It was simply coincidental this one was at a Protestant church. As you quite rightly say I’ve no doubt God was there. But it was a slight over celebration of the children’s achievements without any reference to thanking God for our blessings. In fact I’m glad you mentioned that because it’s made me sum it up in a better way. God was no doubt there but no one seemed to acknowledge his presence.

 

[englishredrose]

How do you acknowledge Gods’ Presence?

I for one struggle with worded prayer and therefore don’t do so and been guided into contemplative prayer, more specifically, Being aware of the Presence of God. I don’t need hello’s and Amen’s etc. For those who do - that is their way of praying but it don’t work for me and don’t reach God as thus.

May be this priest/school style is being very realist about God and making Church a welcoming place to be rather than always being a somber place to be in the eyes of children. Who decided/voted to do what sketches? To me it hardly matters whether the sketch had a typical what is considered Biblical scene or what is typically a non secular scene. The messages that it can bring home can still be Christian and as my Priest told me, God speaks to us through all things. So whether it the latest fashion or something Biblical we can still Be with God.

I am happy that a non service event has been held in a Church. That may well be my own outlook so don’t take it as a church of england stance because it mayn’t be, and more think like you do. I think we are all too formal in Church and whilst I have no desires to turn Church into a local trading centre or public house, I do think many of the formalities of Church has been off putting, whether Catholic or Anglican etc. That God is there in ALL what we do and that it is okay to go into Church and celebrate something good. End of year certificates etc is a good thing to celebrate.
If the priest of these children gain their trust so they find a faith in God then he is doing very well. I dont have a problem with an award ceremony being in Church. Better than the Scout Award Ceremony that attended in December that was billited as an xmas service and the idea was there but well, some things were inapproriate really as they were trying hard and did too much. A school award ceremony in a Church is okay in my book but am only one tiny unimportant church of england/anglican member and if I had been there I may have seen what you saw but as you describe it - it sounds okay though if you expected something more formal it may sound insincere but I would have felt comfortable at the level.

 

[Bergon]

How do you acknowledge Gods’ Presence?

By making it about Him and not about me. It’s great to celebrate life’s achievements. What’s wrong with thanking God for our blessings and riches, too. Even if we don’t know it he is with us all the time supporting us in all our endeavours.

I for one struggle with worded prayer and therefore don’t do so and been guided into contemplative prayer, more specifically, Being aware of the Presence of God. I don’t need hello’s and Amen’s etc. For those who do - that is their way of praying but it don’t work for me and don’t reach God as thus.

Contemplative prayer is an excellent way to commune with God if you can pray that way. Contemplative prayer is by no means easy.

May be this priest/school style is being very realist about God and making Church a welcoming place to be rather than always being a somber place to be in the eyes of children. Who decided/voted to do what sketches? To me it hardly matters whether the sketch had a typical what is considered Biblical scene or what is typically a non secular scene. The messages that it can bring home can still be Christian and as my Priest told me, God speaks to us through all things. So whether it the latest fashion or something Biblical we can still Be with God.

I am happy that a non service event has been held in a Church. That may well be my own outlook so don’t take it as a church of england stance because it mayn’t be, and more think like you do. I think we are all too formal in Church and whilst I have no desires to turn Church into a local trading centre or public house, I do think many of the formalities of Church has been off putting, whether Catholic or Anglican etc. That God is there in ALL what we do and that it is okay to go into Church and celebrate something good. End of year certificates etc is a good thing to celebrate.
If the priest of these children gain their trust so they find a faith in God then he is doing very well. I dont have a problem with an award ceremony being in Church. Better than the Scout Award Ceremony that attended in December that was billited as an xmas service and the idea was there but well, some things were inapproriate really as they were trying hard and did too much. A school award ceremony in a Church is okay in my book but am only one tiny unimportant church of england/anglican member and if I had been there I may have seen what you saw but as you describe it - it sounds okay though if you expected something more formal it may sound insincere but I would have felt comfortable at the level.

I don’t think that we’re going to reach a place where we’re both in agreement on an issue such as this one. In many ways I think it’s wrong to view the Church’s formal liturgy in a negative way or to say it’s too sombre or it’s boring. I believe we start treading a dangerous path when we say the way I worship is about me, it should be what makes me comfortable, it’s got to be done in a way I like. Worship isn’t about us, it’s about God. Everything we should do in liturgy should be about worshiping God and it shouldn’t be about what makes me feel good. That’s how I feel and see the purpose of liturgy/worship.

 

[englishredrose]

Sorry I had no desire to offend. I was trying to view it as a child might and how to encourage children into Church.
Not being there, I don’t know what was wrong and may be that is just another difference between Anglicans and Catholics or it could be just me but obviously not just me in that a priest and school/class in america…

God IS indeed acknowledged simply by being in Church. If this award ceremony had taken place in the school hall then God will still be there but may have had even less acknowledgment. No one will know if the Priest and if individuals said their own prayers to God. We don’t always make a public display of our faith and not everything is about show. Some aspects are very private and if it Low Church Anglicans even less is on show. But God will have been acknowledged certainly by the Priest even if just by himself.

There is nothing wrong in an award ceremony being held in a Church - Anglicans you talking about here at least nothing wrong about an award ceremony being held in an Anglican Church.

 

[Indifferently]

Political correctness: you can’t mention Jesus unless some imaginary person gets “offended”. This is the left wing bully boys trying to silence the Church.

 

[Bergon]

Sorry I had no desire to offend.

I was not offended so there’s no need for an apology. I don’t think I implied I was offended. If I did then I apologise because I wasn’t offended and had no intention of indicating I was.

 

[Bergon]

Political correctness: you can’t mention Jesus unless some imaginary person gets “offended”. This is the left wing bully boys trying to silence the Church.

That isn’t quite how I feel but I do have some empathy with your remarks. I do feel that is part of the problem. It is also about thinking that worship is boring so we have to do something to jazz it up. It starts moving away from what worship should be - worshipping God. It becomes all about “me” and what makes me feel good. I think this denies our children a true education in their Faith.