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ToeInTheWater
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If you’re discussing pre-pubertal kids I agree, but most pediatricians do see patients up to 18, some even up to 21. Do you really think the average adolescent requires the (name removed by moderator)ut of a doctor to realize LGBT people exist? I’m going to make another topic about when is the best age to teach kids about LGBT but it’s just not realistic to indefinitely shield them from this topic. Especially the ones who have SSA themselves.
For a doctor to assume all patients are heterosexual unless they volunteer otherwise, to me is just as ignorant, as for a doctor to assume all patients are sexually active unless they volunteer otherwise.
This kind of article reminds me of similar articles about public school teachers, or “clown Masses” or whatever, taking isolated cases and using them to smear a whole group of people where that be “pediatricians” or “government teachers” or “N.O. lovers”.
And again, traditional pediatricians have patients from age 0 all the way to age 21, if they’re seeing patients in their late teens I do think it’s reasonable to discuss sexual issues. I don’t think most pediatricians would bring up such topics to 10 year olds, but 20 year olds, I’m not as scandalized by.
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AClaire11
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Why does a doctor need to know a patient’s sexual orientation in the first place?
You’re probably right about the article.
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ToeInTheWater
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Well, why does a doctor need to know if a patient is married, has kids, has a job, etc? All of which are standard questions I’ve been asked in doctor’s offices.
Actually, perhaps knowing about sexual orientation is not quite as important as knowing about sexual behavior. The CDC refers to “MSM” (short for “men who have sex with men”) instead of “gay” or “homosexual” when discussing the demographics of HIV transmission, because there are many men who have sex with men but don’t actually identify as “gay” or “bisexual”, for various cultural and religious reasons. (For example, in some Muslim cultures, while a “bottom” man who “plays the part of a woman” is considered to be “gay” and stigmatized, a man who penetrates another man is not always considered “gay” himself.)
And if you’re going to state “well why does a doctor need to know about a patient’s sexual behavior” then I’m really not sure where to start in explaining why that’s important.
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AClaire11
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They absolutely do need to know about a patient’s sexual behavior. I see no problem with asking about sexual activity, if the patient is being ‘safe,’ etc. But asking “Are you interested in boys? girls? unsure?” as the article quoted in my OP states doesn’t seem relevant to me. I guess it would also depend on the age of the child.
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ToeInTheWater
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I get the feeling your concern is that somehow a doctor asking such questions, and therefore normalizing same-sex attraction is going to encourage a child to pursue such attractions, much as some people fear that bringing up sex at all is going to encourage a child to have it and so they should be shielded from sex as long as possible.
I doubt most children would see a doctor as that authoritative, unless they are chronically ill they will only see a doctor once a year for an annual check-up and maybe a couple times more a year for a sore throat, sprained ankle, etc.
So, if I were a parent I’d worry more about the influence of other adult authority figures who spend much more time with a child such as relatives, teachers, coaches, maybe the parents of the child’s close friends, etc.
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Rosebud77
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A very good question. A psych I was forced to meet during the desert of misdiagnosis years began the consultation by asking if I was gay. Next came the sexually active ?
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12345678
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I don’t agree. Even if the kid only meets a person one time, if they know the person is someone their parents are trusting with their health, and they know the person cares for many kids their age, then they can very well feel like if the person (doctor) acts like this is normal, it probably is normal. Which could lead to thinking: If it is normal, then maybe I (the kid) should explore the topic if I ever feel any curiosity or inclination…
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kozlosap
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LOL! I remember kids being told that by nuns when I was in 7th grade. Thank goodness kids are now smart enough to understand that old wives tales are sometimes dangerous and have the ability to do research on old sayings. Remember the ones that said if you eat chocolate or French
you will have many pimples and zits? I’m glad that we all have access to unbiased medical info today.
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kozlosap
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Excellent analysis.
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AClaire11
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Exactly
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at9009
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I believe they ask about interest because (just thinking) it’s a background way of asking the teenager (who already doesn’t want to talk about sex) who they are attracted to as a way to ask about sexual activity. Maybe less intimidating to ask a teenager who they are attracted to and then to ask if they have had any kind of relationship? Though this is just me guessing?
Typically doctors in general aren’t to show any kind of moral position on issues and just gather information from patients (otherwise patients will hold back info as they don’t want to feel judged by their doctors which can be deadly as important information can be kept secret). For example, Not saying doing illicit drugs is bad and wrong to a patient suffering from addiction but rather to discuss with the patient the dangers and health risks, associated diseases with during drugs, risk reduction behavior, and options for obtaining sobriety.
For adult patients, one rarely asks about orientation (in most clinical areas of medicine, it might be asked and be more relevant within psychiatry) and sole discussion is focused on past sexual history (orientation doesn’t really mean much as it often doesn’t always reflect past behaviors).
To be honest, all a lot of this would be non-issues if church communities and church leaders know how to address SSA individuals (including teens) better. The attitude of not talking about it because it might expose them to it isn’t really working (though one can debate about which age is appropriate or not). For a person struggling with this (especially a teen) if there was more openness that some do struggle with this (whether permanent or not) would make a huge difference especially with shame, self-loathing, and often potential to self-harm (talking makes it my cross rather than my secret shame that makes me less than everyone else). Instead it feels almost like the thought process is to let the SSA teen suffer on there own because if the topic was talked about it, more will become SSA or something though I never quite did understand the logic. But this last tangent is honestly a separate discussion and issue.
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ToeInTheWater
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I totally agree and I have started another topic about that. I think the idea that if we ignore SSA it will just go away is very misguided, and often takes place in the context of an attitude that kids should remain as ignorant about sex in general as long as possible, because knowing about sex will make them want to do it.
One of the many problems is that if kids are kept ignorant about sex, the idea they will learn it from some “kids on the playground” is probably the best case scenario. The worst case scenario is that they will learn from some sexual predator who takes advantage of the kid’s ignorance.
(This happens to Miss Alice in the book Christy, that was based on her own mother’s life, though I’m not sure if Miss Alice actually existed. Anyway, a religious preacher takes advantage of Alice’s ignorance about sex to seduce her, and she gets pregnant out of wedlock. I was somewhat annoyed that the TV adaptation cut this and just had Alice say “I have a daughter, but I’ve never had a husband” and probably that means TV audiences assume Miss Alice got pregnant through consensual sex. The book makes it clear that she was a victim of sexual abuse.)
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mommy_k
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I am surpised that parents go in depth with explaining what vaccines thier kids are getting–with thier kids.
For example, if you wanted your child to have an Hpv shot at 11, do they really care what it is for? My kids never asked, what is varicella, mmr and what not…why is this different?
I think if I told any of my kids,at 11 or what have u, that they are getting a needle, it’s the needle they would be focused on, not the medicine or what it’s doing.
What does this conversation look like,anyway…well, you see junior, you are getting a polio shot today, even though polio has been eradicated–but you know you have this needle anyway, because the cdc or some other agency requires it and so on and so forth. My kids would think I was nuts.
For example, if you wanted your child to have an Hpv shot at 11, do they really care what it is for? My kids never asked, what is varicella, mmr and what not…why is this different?
I think if I told any of my kids,at 11 or what have u, that they are getting a needle, it’s the needle they would be focused on, not the medicine or what it’s doing.
What does this conversation look like,anyway…well, you see junior, you are getting a polio shot today, even though polio has been eradicated–but you know you have this needle anyway, because the cdc or some other agency requires it and so on and so forth. My kids would think I was nuts.
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at9009
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I believe the discussion with the kids about the vaccine occurs with older teenagers since women are eligible for vaccine up to I think 25 and men up to 21 (could be wrong on that). So the pediatrician could be discussing the idea of getting a vaccine to an older teen (15-17) in addition to talking with the parents about the vaccine? That was my understanding, but I could be wrong.
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mommy_k
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I have a few that are that age too, and they still would think I was nuts. If the doctor asked me, I would just say yes or no in behalf of my child. That’s what parents do for minors.
The doctor would have to be pretty naive to think any teen would admit to having relations in front of a parent .
Are there really any kids that say, yes…I have been sexually active for let’s see, 5 months now,–and I also self pleasure 3 times a week, so thanks for putting my mind,at ease…so I’ll take a dose of that there hpv shot…
If this is the case, I think this particular teen would need more help then an Hpv shot.
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at9009
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Okay so here is what I meant if I wasn’t clear. I could see the doctor discussing the vaccine and its purpose with an older teen (lets say 15+). The teen can be mature enough to realize that most likely at some point in their future he or she will be sexually active (hopefully within the context of a marriage). Additionally the teen may have questions they would like to ask but may be uncomfortable talking about in front of the parent.Vaccination also should be discussed with the parent and the teen as the parent is responsible for health care decisions of the minor.
This vaccine prevents infection with HPV with is one of the most common STIs, often asymptomatic, persists for long periods of time, and is known to be carcinogenic (at least some strains). Logically, the teen could decide he or she would want to get vaccinated prior to sexual activity to essentially eliminate this risk. Because the vaccine is only a prophylactic, should a person be exposed and infected with HPV, it cannot prevent it from progressing to some clinical manifestation (though in something like 80-90% of people HPV infections clear within 1-2 years often without any clinical manifestations).
It’s not a let me get this shot so I can go have sex and not get HPV but a discussion of the fact that HPV has a high prevalence rate and a good additional measure to prevent infection would be this vaccine which has proven to be effective and safe (has been on the market in most developed nations since around 2006). Does that make more sense?
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mommy_k
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Yes, but I don’t think every teen has the ability to weigh these issues for themselves. That’s why this decision is a parental one, and it also up to the parent how to position this to thier child if they want thier child to get immunized.
How can a parent raise a child in the Catholic faith, and then have a child be immunized for protection from an std…this sends a conflicting message as well as a message if mistrust.
I have friends that have immunized thier kids, and told them it’s like a tetanus shot. Pretty basic. I don’t know if I would go that far, but it worked for them. If the teens figure it out, they will just think the parents don’t know all the details.
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ToeInTheWater
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No it doesn’t, because a child can be 100% faithful to Church teaching and still (1) wind up marrying someone who has a sexual history or (2) be a victim of sexual assault.
That being said, I agree that a parent who consents on behalf of a child for a vaccination is not at all obligated to explain the vaccine in detail.
I recall that the hepatitis B vaccine was introduced when I was a teenager. Hepatitis B is spread mostly in the US by sex or by IV drug use, and I knew that. However, my parents had no issues consenting to the vaccine and I certainly didn’t see the vaccine as a green light to indulge in sex and drugs.
The hepatitis B vaccine is now part of the routine infant immunization schedule, and obviously the parents are not going to explain to a baby what it’s meant to prevent.
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mommy_k
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Yes…I agree. It is not up to the pediatrician to discuss this. I agree with the concept of the other reasons you mentioned , but I would not state this to the teens especially if other immunizations have never been talked about…
So with that in mind, if I felt that they needed to have an immunization, they know to trust me that I am doing things in thier best interest.
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