Pell sentence handed down

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bradskii
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Five Linden, Cardinal Pell is in Ararat Prison. Several of his fellow now ex-Priests are there, including Risdale. Many prisoners at this prison share units. It is a prison where many sex offenders are detained at HM pleasure. It is undergoing new building works to house those that can never be released back into the community. Cardinal Pell will no doubt have visitation by those in the Ballarat Diocese, ongoing, throughout his sentence, as do the others.
 
Last edited:
Exoneration?

You mean, because he’s old he has nothing to live for?
 
Exoneration?

You mean, because he’s old he has nothing to live for?
Not exoneration - a successful appeal won’t do that. Only a recanting by the complainant could do that - not very likely one would think.

Life after a successful appeal will also be quite grim I would think.
 
Cardinal Pell returned from the Vatican to clear his name,if the appeal is successful he will have much to look forward to .
 
40.png
Bradskii:
If his appeal fails, then what has he got to look forward to?
What has he to look forward to if his appeal succeeds?
Good question. I honestly don’t know. But if I were the Vatican I would put him out to pasture.
 
40.png
FiveLinden:
Following a failed appeal…
You miss my point! Which is that he will have little to look forward to even if his appeal succeeds!
He will still have the Vatican investigation to look forward to. The CDF will have different canonical norms to follow that perhaps weren’t required for the police investigation. If Cardinal Pell is innocent, I would say that process would be something very much to look forward to.
 
If Cardinal Pell is innocent, I would say that process would be something very much to look forward to.
Even if he is innocent, it is extraordinarily difficult to imagine how that could be “proven”, short of a recant from the complainant. So while an overturned verdict is way better than the reverse, the future under that “happy” scenario might remain bleak.
 
A priest was released from prison here this last week after his appeal was heard.It does happen.
 
He didn’t agree with the jury. The way the legal system is in the fruits and nuts state of Victoria Australia he’s had to legally support the jury’s decision and comment accordingly.
 
He didn’t agree with the jury. The way the legal system is in the fruits and nuts state of Victoria Australia he’s had to legally support the jury’s decision and comment accordingly.
I know that is technically correct but judges choose their words carefully. If he did not agree he would have used different language.
 
The burden of proof, in these perilous times, now rests on any/all priests to prove that they didn’t do what they are charged with - and the default presumption is that ALL accusers always tell the truth. It is literally impossible to get a fair trial.

Cardinal Pell is prejudged by the court as being so arrogant that he must have thought he could get away with anything, anytime, anywhere. (Strange that he only had one accuser.)

He is prejudged by the court as having such overwhelming authority that if he was caught in the act he could just compel his subordinates to lie for him and provide a false alibi. (So why didn’t he do that in this case?)

We are told we shouldn’t disrespect the jury/legal system by questioning the verdict. But that’s exactly what George Pell’s haters would be doing if he was acquitted.
 
The system is such that he is bound by the findings of the jury. His choice of words comes from the findings of the jury.
In the Victorian court. A judge cannot say anything slightly contrary to the findings of the jury.
Basically he was reiterating the jury decisions.
 
40.png
Lion_IRC:
Cardinal Pell is prejudged by the court as being so arrogant that he must have thought he could get away with anything, anytime, anywhere.
Where on earth is the evidence for that?
That was the Judges conclusion having systematically ruled out other reasons for this isolated, unconcealed, spontaneous, out of character sex attack.

There is not one person could be found who has known Cardinal Pell over 45 years of public life, who could provide propensity evidence to support that conclusion. I believe the Judge was pointing out publicly that there really is no conclusion that can credibly explain the behaviour that Pell was convicted of. It highlights how many black and white facts normally influencing a verdict were dispensed with.
 
Last edited:
40.png
Bradskii:
40.png
Lion_IRC:
Cardinal Pell is prejudged by the court as being so arrogant that he must have thought he could get away with anything, anytime, anywhere.
Where on earth is the evidence for that?
That was the Judges conclusion having systematically ruled out other reasons for this isolated, unconcealed, spontaneous, out of character sex attack.

There is not one person could be found who has known Cardinal Pell over 45 years of public life, who could provide propensity evidence to support that conclusion. I believe the Judge was pointing out publicly that there really is no conclusion that can credibly explain the behaviour that Pell was convicted of. It highlights how many black and white facts normally influencing a verdict were dispensed with.
Well, it was found proven beyond reasonable doubt that Pell DID do this ‘isolated, unconcealed, spontaneous, out-of-character sex attack’. The judge could not speak as if Pell had not done the deeds. It was not his role either to give a separate verdict as to guilt (which was for the jury alone to do), nor to express doubt about the verdict (which is for the appeals court).

And isolated, unconcealed, spontaneous, seemingly out-of-character crimes of all sorts do happen, sex attacks included, very rare though they be. I say ‘seemingly’ because of course none of us really are 24/7 observers of any other person, so we none of us can say conclusively that we know their true character.

Absent other motives - such as sudden onset mental illness, drug use or some such - which would have been open to his defence lawyers to raise both at trial and sentencing if they could - what motives are left for someone to possibly do such a thing? More or less only those the judge has outlined.
 
Last edited:
40.png
Emeraldlady:
40.png
Bradskii:
40.png
Lion_IRC:
Cardinal Pell is prejudged by the court as being so arrogant that he must have thought he could get away with anything, anytime, anywhere.
Where on earth is the evidence for that?
That was the Judges conclusion having systematically ruled out other reasons for this isolated, unconcealed, spontaneous, out of character sex attack.

There is not one person could be found who has known Cardinal Pell over 45 years of public life, who could provide propensity evidence to support that conclusion. I believe the Judge was pointing out publicly that there really is no conclusion that can credibly explain the behaviour that Pell was convicted of. It highlights how many black and white facts normally influencing a verdict were dispensed with.
Well, it was found proven beyond reasonable doubt that Pell DID do this ‘isolated, unconcealed, spontaneous, out-of-character sex attack’. The judge could not speak as if Pell had not done the deeds. It was not his role either to give a separate verdict as to guilt (which was for the jury alone to do), nor to express doubt about the verdict (which is for the appeals court).

And isolated, unconcealed, spontaneous, seemingly out-of-character crimes of all sorts do happen, sex attacks included, very rare though they be. I say ‘seemingly’ because of course none of us really are 24/7 observers of any other person, so we none of us can say conclusively that we know their true character.

Absent other motives - such as sudden onset mental illness, drug use or some such - which would have been open to his defence lawyers to raise both at trial and sentencing if they could - what motives are left for someone to possibly do such a thing? More or less only those the judge has outlined.
The Australian legal machine is always conscious of maintaining the safeguards embraced since the 1980’s Lindy Chamberlain case. ie. recognising the real impact of prejudice on the public and if a truly impartial jury is possible in that climate.

That aspect of whether Pell was ever going to get a fair trial because of that was a debate among the legal eagles beforehand. It’s my opinion of course, but I believe that the trial went ahead because the probability of conviction based alone on the testimony of one person from 20 years ago, the co accused having denied it happened before his death, along with all the other unlikely and implausible factors… probably seemed low.

It is incumbent on the legal players to really examine whether prejudice was raring its ugly head again.

The shame of wrongly conviction where prejudice is a factor goes back earlier than the Lindy Chamberlain case. The abolition of the death penalty in Australia was also based on recognising how widespread prejudice affected verdicts. Aboriginal people and foreign aliens were victimised by systemic prejudice which could never be eliminated from the culture at the time to ensure impartiality in verdicts.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top