Penance and Happiness

[Psychotheosophy]

How does penance make us happier?

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Speaking for penance in the way of self-denial, doing without something convinces my mind that I am capable of doing without it. Hence it no longer has the same power over me. That gives me a feeling of freedom, and from freedom comes the ability to cast aside distractions and go with God, doing His work on this earth. From that comes the happiness.

Alan

 

[bnbkaine]

Alan, I love your answer.

The only thing I will add is that obedience is the better than sacrifice for God. Doing our penance, although it is a sacrifice, puts us back on the path of obedience.

 

[Psychotheosophy]

Speaking for penance in the way of self-denial, doing without something convinces my mind that I am capable of doing without it. Hence it no longer has the same power over me. That gives me a feeling of freedom, and from freedom comes the ability to cast aside distractions and go with God, doing His work on this earth. From that comes the happiness.

Alan

So,
Doing without my mind
Convinces my mind,
That I am capable,
Of doing without it?

If I “lose my mind,”
I am powerful and free?

Do you believe that,
Truth = error?

Alan, I love your answer.

The only thing I will add is that obedience is the better than sacrifice for God. Doing our penance, although it is a sacrifice, puts us back on the path of obedience.

Since the soul,
Is a mind that thinks,
And a will that chooses,
If I “lose my mind,”

Wouldn’t I be,
Weak and enslaved?

 

[Edward_H]

Maybe another way to think about penance is this:

It’s God’s way to help us! He knows better than we our human nature. He is, through penance, allowing us to regain our full human dignity, no longer at that moment a slave to sin. Penance is only accomplished with our cooperation, our will.

By “contributing” we regain our dignity…our ability to act virtuously and effectively in the world, with others.

So like a human father who lets his son/daughter run and fetch a small tool in order to fix a window that the child broke, the same thing happens between God and us through Confession and Penance.

In the child’s case, he/she is in some small way contributing to a fix and restoring their relation to their father. God can convert our penance into anything He wants.

Remember out of nothing he created the universe. Surely He can convert our small acts into all sorts of good things for others.

And beyond all this goodness, it makes us “feel” better to be part of the fix, more fully human, more virtuous. And thus, perhaps also more apt to love and give ourselves away.

Isn’t this “economy of Penance” amazing?!1

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Speaking for penance in the way of self-denial, doing without something convinces my mind that I am capable of doing without it. Hence it no longer has the same power over me. That gives me a feeling of freedom, and from freedom comes the ability to cast aside distractions and go with God, doing His work on this earth. From that comes the happiness.

Alan

Sorry, I was unclear.

I meant “doing without something convinces my mind that I am capable of doing without that thing.” I hope this clears it up.

Alan

 

[Brooklyn]

How does penance make us happier?

Such an interesting question. Is the goal of everything you do to make you “happier”? Is that what you think the ultimate aim of penance is? The Apostle Paul said this was his reason for penance:

“Every athlete exercises discipline in every way. They do it to win a perishable crown, but we an imperishable one. Thus I do not run aimlessly; I do not fight as if I were shadowboxing. No, I drive my body and train it, for fear that, after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.” (I Cor 9)

Asking if penance makes us “happier” seems like you’re saying, what’s in it for me? Here is a statement about about fasting and abstinence, forms of penance from an article by Father Francis Fernandez Carvajal:

“[fasting and abstinence] strengthens our spirit as it mortifies our flesh and our sensuality. It raises our soul to God. It gets rid of concupiscence by giving us the strength to overcome and to mortify our passions, and it disposes our heart that it may seek for nothing except to please God in everything.”

It goes on to say:

“Detachment from material goods, mortification and abstinence purify us from our sins and help us to find God in our everyday life. For whoever seeks God whilst wanting to hold on to his own likes and dislikes, may seek Him day and night, but will never find Him.”

the-american-catholic.com/2010/02/17/works-of-penance-frequent-confession-mortification-almsgiving/

“Happiness” as such is really not a part of the equation here. We are in a constant spiritual battle, we are at war, against the world, the devil and most of all, ourselves. Do you ask a soldier how he derives happiness from fighting a battle?

If you are looking for “happiness” as defined by this world in the Christian life, you are going to be sadly disappointed. Read any of the lives of the saints. Read the story of Christ. No real “happiness” there, but a tremendous amount of joy, which is very different from “happiness.”

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Brooklyn,

Thank you for some great Bible quotes.

As far as “happiness” I did not take the OP to mean any sort of self-indulgent happiness. I thought he meant a sense of spiritual readiness – even maturity – and well-being, at peace, with joy and the other fruit of the Spirit.

I cannot speak for soldiers because I wasn’t one. I can’t imagine what it would be like, so I don’t know what my spiritual reaction would be.

Alan

 

[Psychotheosophy]

Do you believe that,
Truth = error?

I understand why you do not answer this.
Because it is self-evident,
(Like other subjects)
whether or not,
Truth = error.
I expect that,
There will be,
Others willing to explain,
The Catholic faith in greater detail,
Under this self-evident assumption.
And live it accordingly.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I understand why you do not answer this.
Because it is self-evident,
(Like other subjects)
whether or not,
Truth = error.
I expect that,
There will be,
Others willing to explain,
The Catholic faith in greater detail,
Under this self-evident assumption.
And live it accordingly.

I didn’t try to answer it, because I thought it was a part of my unclear antecedent.

I’m not sure where you want to take this, if anywhere. Truth = error, assuming common definitions of the terms, is false. However, if we consider them compliments, then we can know both by knowing either. After all, the sun outlines the shadow, and the shadow outlines the sun.

I don’t understand what you mean about the Catholic faith. Please help.

Alan

 

[Psychotheosophy]

If we consider them compliments, then we can know both by knowing either.

Since Happiness = Truth,
And unhappiness = error,

It is self-evident that,
All people naturally hope for Happiness,
And do not hope for suffering,
So we naturally hope for Happiness without suffering.

“What man can earn is the appointed end toward which God moves his free will. So, perseverance in glory (which is the end in question) can be earned. But perseverance in grace throughout life cannot be earned since it depends on God’s movement, the source of all earning. God is free to bestow perseverance on whomsoever he wills to bestow it. But what can’t be earned can always be prayed for.”

Summa Theologica: A Concise Translation

And,
As that which is self-evident,
Is not obtained by our ability to reason.
The perseverance through suffering can be willed,
But not obtained by our own ability.

“The ignorance of some is extremely lamentable; they burden themselves with extraordinary penances and many other exercises, thinking these are sufficient for the attainment of union with the divine wisdom. But these practices are insufficient if a person does not diligently strive to deny his appetites.”

The Ascent of Mount Carmel
Book I, Chapter 8, Section 4

So,
Happiness and suffering are not one.
Happiness and material happiness are not one.

“No one can willfully turn away from happiness, for man wants happiness by nature. So no one seeing God for what he is can willfully turn his back on God. Plainly then, since Adam sinned, he had not seen God for what he is.”

Summa Theologica: A Concise Translation

To see Happiness as suffering,
Is to not see Happiness for what it is,
And is therefore willed less.

I don’t understand what you mean about the Catholic faith. Please help.

Alan

Which part don’t you understand?

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Your writing style is very confusing, Psychotheosophy. I can’t understand what you’re saying very well.

However, I will attempt an answer to your initial question. Penance separates us from worldly pleasures that have a strong grip on our lives (be they comfort, good food, getting our own way, etc.). These things enslave us, control us rather than us controlling them and being capable of walking away from them if we desire.

By separating ourselves from that which enslaves us for the sake of Freedom Himself, Who is Christ, we become free from what binds us and constrains our lifestyles and behavior, consuming us with selfishness.

When we are free, God can operate in and through us more easily. We possess Jesus more and more completely the more we abandon things of the world for His sake, and as we possess Him more and more, we delight in spiritual goods and rejoice in the eternal. The worldly pleasures that offer some temporal happiness, while simultaneously giving us the misery of enslavement to the world and apart from God, actually keep us from true happiness, which is all found in Christ. By abandoning ourselves in the world, we find ourselves in Heaven. We become free to fly up to Heaven by throwing aside all the things of the world that enslave us.

We can content ourselves with good things here on Earth and let them be our master, or we can content ourselves with the good things of Heaven and let God be our Master. The good things of Heaven are ours here on Earth too; the saints were the happiest people in the world, because they gave up the worthless pleasures of the world for God’s sake most completely and in so doing received God most completely. They saw what really has value and gives real peace and joy, so they sought it and received it. To seek and receive Christ, they had to be free from what separated them from Him, and that is the attachment to self that replaces attachment to God in all our lives.

Think about it in practical terms. Consider someone who is really concerned for their creature-comforts. We feel “bound” to them; we have to watch our television or listen to our stereo or spend our time on the computer. The things that make us happy would be very hard to give up. Why? Because they enslave us. However, if we are separate from these things and are devoted to virtue instead, like spending our time helping out at a shelter for the poor rather than spending our time playing computer games, through our separation from our worldly pleasures, we can become more attached to love, and God is Love. Those that truly live lives for God have to deny themselves, and those that are searching for God learn to deny themselves more and more, over the years.

It’s a relationship. Because God loves us, we come to love Him, and loving Him, we seek His will above our own. That is when sacrifice begins, but that sacrifice of doing God’s will rather than our own leads us into deeper union with God, which brings us more love (and consequently more joy), and this leads us into even deeper sacrificial union with God. We have to detach from ourselves in order to become attached to God, and the more we would be attached to God, the more we must be detached from ourselves.

This should be a process though, and we work our way into it through loving relationship. Nothing should be practiced without love.

2 Cor. 9:7 points out, “Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.”

God bless you in your discernment and search for answers. You may want to read some of the writings of the saints; many of them speak on this matter as it’s a basic theological principle that all of them lived. As Jesus said, “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it” (Luke 9:23-24).

 

[Psychotheosophy]

Your writing style is very confusing, Psychotheosophy. I can’t understand what you’re saying very well.

So,
You no longer want to dialogue about it?

 

[HeWillProvide]

OP wrote:
It is self-evident that,
All people naturally hope for Happiness,
And do not hope for suffering,
So we naturally hope for Happiness without suffering.

This isn’t true.
Many people DO hope for suffering because they want to live as Jesus did. A great deal of early Christians wanted to be thrown to the lions because they wanted to die a martyr. A great deal of saints WANTED to be killed/tortured for the sake of Jesus. Some people still do. So, yes, some people DO hope for suffering.

What is OP’s definition of “happiness”? He says “all people” hope for it - but I’m sure we all have different definitions of it. For example, if someone’s definition of happiness is raising a family with 10 kids, well, nope, a great deal of people don’t want that. And so on.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

So,
You no longer want to dialogue about it?

It seems to be you that doesn’t want to dialogue. I just wrote you a lengthy post, responding to your question, and you haven’t responded to me at all.

 

[Psychotheosophy]

We possess Jesus more and more completely the more we abandon things of the world for His sake, and as we possess Him more and more, we delight in spiritual goods and rejoice in the eternal.

“Delight is satisfied desire is satisfied desire which has achieved the good thing it wanted. So since happiness is achievement of our highest good it must bring with it delight. The delight however is secondary to the achievement.”

Happiness (Goodness) is our highest good and End.

Delight comes from being happy,
But is not Happiness itself.

What is OP’s definition of “happiness”? He says “all people” hope for it - but I’m sure we all have different definitions of it. For example, if someone’s definition of happiness is raising a family with 10 kids, well, nope, a great deal of people don’t want that. And so on.

“What satisfies the will is the goodness of what was wanted: the goodness of an activity if activity was what was wanted. But if the will seeks satisfaction in an activity it is because that activity is desirable; the primary thing desired is the satisfying activity, not the satisfaction itself.”

Happiness (Goodness) is what we all will,
And we will the Goodness in a good activity,
More than the good activity.

And since,…

To see Happiness as suffering,
Is to not see Happiness for what it is,
And is therefore willed less.

Then,
To see Happiness and not happiness as one or,
To see Goodness and evil as one,
Enslaves the already,
Weaker willed.

A great deal of early Christians wanted to be thrown to the lions because they wanted to die a martyr. A great deal of saints WANTED to be killed/tortured for the sake of Jesus. Some people still do. So, yes, some people DO hope for suffering.

"But aggressive emotions react to what is arduously and difficultly

Pleasure follows Happiness,
And is not Happiness itself.

"Anger is the only emotion without an opposed emotion. It is provoked by evil

is already harming us but hard to repel. Such evils we either yield to sadly (an affective emotion) or impelled to confront angrily. No emotion impels us to avoid the evil, since what is already present is unavoidable: and there is no aggressive emotion tending towards present good, since such good presents no challenge and is simply affectively enjoyed. The only thing opposed to being angry is its absence, calming down."

Summa Theologica: A Concise Translation

Happiness (Goodness) is not an emotion.
And anger is not aggression.

The martyrs were attracted to that which made them aggressive (Goodness),
The martyrs were not attracted to that which made them angry (evil).

 

[HeWillProvide]

Jesus told his disciples to pick up their cross and follow him.

What is the cross?
Suffering.

So to tell Jesus, No, I don’t want to accept suffering means that we are telling him, No, I don’t want to do what you say. And this, in turn, means…?

 

[HeWillProvide]

You should read the stories of a few saints, namely Teresa the Little Flower, St. Martin de Porres and, well, how about the Blessed Virgin Mary. I disagree in that any of these maintained any sort of “aggression,” as you say.

 

[Brooklyn]

It seems to be you that doesn’t want to dialogue. I just wrote you a lengthy post, responding to your question, and you haven’t responded to me at all.

I’ve got to say, Psychotheosophy reminds me of the beatniks back in the 50’s, who sat around coffee shops, listening to jazz and “poetry” like this: “The world is holy! The soul is holy! The skin is holy! The nose is holy! Everything is holy! everybody’s holy! everywhere is holy! everyday is eternity! Everyman’s an angel!” The next few stanzas after that are unfit to print here. That is part of an actual poem by Allen Ginsberg.

How 'bout trying these: “Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.” (Mt. 10:39). “The meek shall inherit the earth.” Blessed are they that mourn" “Blessed are you when men persecute you.”

The “logic” shown in Psychotheosophy’s postings are those of “spirituality” without God, and that is going to get you nowhere. Your post showed real spiritual understanding. I don’t think that Psychotheosophy is going to want to even touch that.