Penance and women

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I’m a woman and I’ve never feared for my safety, or felt the need to “protect myself” while going to Confession or making a general Confession. Furthermore, I trust my confessor and don’t jump to the conclusion that he could have dishonourable intentions towards me. Really, I honestly believe far too many people have it in their heads that most priests are untrustworthy rapists/child molesters who are just waiting for an opportunity to attack. :rolleyes:
Or that women are ready to seduce poor unsuspecting priests. I always go face to face with my confessor in his office with the door closed (although there is a window in the door) but I have also been other places with him totally alone.
 
I have never had a face to face confession nor would I ever do a face to face confession.
(but thats me, I don’t care how others do confession). I have never ever thought of fearing a Priest.
 
I’m a woman and I’ve never feared for my safety, or felt the need to “protect myself” while going to Confession or making a general Confession. Furthermore, I trust my confessor and don’t jump to the conclusion that he could have dishonourable intentions towards me. Really, I honestly believe far too many people have it in their heads that most priests are untrustworthy rapists/child molesters who are just waiting for an opportunity to attack. :rolleyes:
You see don’t see priests as potential predators because you’re a sane, balanced individual who’s not craving attention (or a lawsuit settlement) from whatever source and at whatever cost. I’d reckon most of are like this. 🙂

But… But… It only takes one crackpot to ruin a good and holy man’s vocation and career and life. Prudence, therefore, dictates that office doors be cracked open and other people to be handily nearby.

Luna
 
I’m a woman and I’ve never feared for my safety, or felt the need to “protect myself” while going to Confession or making a general Confession. Furthermore, I trust my confessor and don’t jump to the conclusion that he could have dishonourable intentions towards me. Really, I honestly believe far too many people have it in their heads that most priests are untrustworthy rapists/child molesters who are just waiting for an opportunity to attack. :rolleyes:
Or that women are ready to seduce poor unsuspecting priests. I always go face to face with my confessor in his office with the door closed (although there is a window in the door) but I have also been other places with him totally alone.
We really should never think that sexual sins are below any man or woman. The Spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. I am sure that priests are instructed on how to avoid placing themselves in dangerous situations exactly because these type of feelings can arise.
 
In our parish church there is no confessional box or reconciliation room and the next nearest priest is a plane ride or 14 hour ferry journey away. We have face to face confession in the small vestry- no-one seems to think it odd or unusual. I know that I am busy during confession trying to supress my natural disinclination to be humble and concentrating on the sins I know I must confess and also of course speaking from my heart to Our Lord who is graciously represented by the priest. I am sure that whilst hearing confessions, our kind, gentle and holy parish priest is probably busy praying and thinking how best to give each penitent the most helpful counsel and advice. Our priest knows each penitent- that is inevitable in our tiny community. I am sad that it is a reflection on our sinful world that women going to confession, or faithful priests hearing confessions, would even have to consider any sinful possibilities occurring. I would like to encourage everyone to reclaim their trust- I am not in a situation of having been previously exposed to hurt although I pray for those who are and I am not complacent about these matters. But let us joyfully reclaim our spiritual path to healing and wholeness through confession without fear. Focus on the Matter of the sacrament which we bring to confession in our very selves and may God to bless our open contrite hearts.
 
You see don’t see priests as potential predators because you’re a sane, balanced individual who’s not craving attention (or a lawsuit settlement) from whatever source and at whatever cost. I’d reckon most of are like this. 🙂

But… But… It only takes one crackpot to ruin a good and holy man’s vocation and career and life. Prudence, therefore, dictates that office doors be cracked open and other people to be handily nearby.

Luna
I don’t think though either that because I’m a woman…that there has to be the door cracked open so others might possibly hear my confession.

In regular reconciliation…I go face to face - no problem. First of all there are plenty people outside the door for crying out loud. What on earth could happen in 10 minutes.

Our priest is pretty careful about not being alone with a woman in circumstances where there is no one around. But when he councels people in his office-there is a window but sometimes in some situations…he has to put up a sound type barrier over that and it blocks the view…I’ve been in that situation and I appreciate it. Some times its tough enough to talk about some of these things without also having the fear that it will be overheard.

Not having a open door also protects a priest about the confession seal. What if a sin was overheard and repeated?

I have been hurt before…but I absolutley trust our priest…EVEN WITH MY LIFE!
 
I have heard that in the 1917 Code it said that the Confession of women had to be anonymous or behind a screen.

Is it dangerous for a priest to hear a face to face Confession of a young lady due to unpleasant thoughts on the part of the priest hearing the Confession?
Okay, I admit I’m a bit dense, but for the life of me I can’t quite figure out why I would worry about a rubric that is almost a hundred years old???Most of the confessions at our parish are done by appointment and are face to face. We still have the “boxes”, but most people opt for the new style.
 
Okay, I admit I’m a bit dense, but for the life of me I can’t quite figure out why I would worry about a rubric that is almost a hundred years old???Most of the confessions at our parish are done by appointment and are face to face. We still have the “boxes”, but most people opt for the new style.
Why does it matter if laws/rubrics are a hundred years old? We still follow Church laws that were written/promulgated in the 17th century, in the 9th century, and so on. Why does the age of a law automatically make it okay to disobey it? Big non sequitur. Just because something wasn’t made law in 1967 or 1983 or 1992 doesn’t mean it loses its power.
 
Why does it matter if laws/rubrics are a hundred years old? We still follow Church laws that were written/promulgated in the 17th century, in the 9th century, and so on. Why does the age of a law automatically make it okay to disobey it? Big non sequitur. Just because something wasn’t made law in 1967 or 1983 or 1992 doesn’t mean it loses its power.
Well if it is an old law that is abrogated then what does it matter? I would assume that a scheduled confession would be a bit difficult to be anonymous.
 
Okay, I admit I’m a bit dense, but for the life of me I can’t quite figure out why I would worry about a rubric that is almost a hundred years old???Most of the confessions at our parish are done by appointment and are face to face. We still have the “boxes”, but most people opt for the new style.
Somtimes academic discussions are just that - academic and serve no underlying motive.
 
Well if it is an old law that is abrogated then what does it matter? I would assume that a scheduled confession would be a bit difficult to be anonymous.
If it is abrogated, then you’re right, it doesn’t matter. I’m just pointing out that it’s a bit dense to say, “Just because a law is old, it obviously doesn’t matter.” Perhaps the poster didn’t say that exactly, but I think that was the sentiment.

And scheduled confessions need not be difficult to be anonymous. Father can go to the confessional 5 minutes before the confession starts and wait for the penitent to arrive. If there is a grate (as Canon Law actually absolutely requires there to be), then no problem there. If then, however, the penitent wishes to confess face-to-face, it would be very easy to say so. I think confessionals should be built in such a manner as to make confession anonymous by default, with a way for people to perhaps raise a grate or pull back a small curtain if they wish to confess face-to-face. In fact, most of the new great Catholic architects (have a look at Duncan Stroik’s website, fantastic architect) are building confessionals like that in new construction or remodels.
 
There is no doubt that the 1917 code has been abrogated.
I wasn’t quoting the 1917 code. As I said I don’t recall if it was actually in there or not.

I was quoting the rite for Confession–which remains one form for Confession in the Latin Church.
 
I wasn’t quoting the 1917 code. As I said I don’t recall if it was actually in there or not.

I was quoting the rite for Confession–which remains one form for Confession in the Latin Church.
Fr. David,

So in the first quote it talks about an open place like a church right? So most everyone is following that. But the second part of that…there is a stationary grating…not every churches are built to accomodate that. Even our seminary up the road has a reconciliation room like our parish has which does not have a stationary grate.
  1. The confessional for female penitents should always be located in an open and conspicuous place, generally in a church or otherwise in a public or semipublic oratory designated for women. The confessional should be built so that there is a stationary perforated grating between confessor and penitent.
The next part of that is confessions for females outside of the confessional. Would not the pastors office be appropriate…perhaps even more appropriate in cases such as our parish where the church might be almost empty but there are offices right outside of Fr’s office? I understand not in a private home or in the rectory-for Fr’s protection as well as the woman’s.

9. Confessions of female penitents should never be heard outside a confessional, except in the case of illness or some other real necessity, and observing then such precautionary measures as the local Ordinary deems opportune. Confessions of men, however, may be heard even in a private home.
 
You see don’t see priests as potential predators because you’re a sane, balanced individual who’s not craving attention (or a lawsuit settlement) from whatever source and at whatever cost. I’d reckon most of are like this. 🙂

But… But… It only takes one crackpot to ruin a good and holy man’s vocation and career and life. Prudence, therefore, dictates that office doors be cracked open and other people to be handily nearby.

Luna
This is my point exactly. I’ve never felt apprehensive about being alone with a priest, or indeed, any other man, and really, until such craziness started to pop up, the idea that it even could never occurred to me. In the case of the priest in my diocese, I really can’t imagine a more unlikely scenario than him “groping” the female penitent, as he was accused of doing (I’m not going to get into specifics, but you would have to know the man to understand my point.) But Luna is absolutely correct, there is no shortage of unbalanced and irrational, or avaricious people in search of “free money,” out there, and priests shouldn’t be naive to the fact. Architectural features or the proximity of other people would seem to obviate the possibility so that such claims would be less credible.
 
Rather than recommend the return to traditional confessionals, our diocese now mandates that Reconciliation rooms have glass panes in the door to allow both the penitent and the priest to be seen. Since that hadn’t happened in our parish some bright soul decided to simply remove the door to the Reconciliation Room. That went over like a lead balloon!

In response, another bright soul took the closet next to the Reconciliation room, cut a ‘window’ in the shared wall, panelled the walls, installed a grate and a kneeler and, voilà!, a new confessional. It wasn’t done without the administrator’s OK, but it WAS a one-man mission that only a few people were privy to (his wife, and the guy whom he got to do the actual carpentry). Also reinstalled the door to the R.R. It’s driving the one who’d removed the door nuts “But, but, but we’re not in compliance with the diocese’s 'Responsible Ministry Policy!” “There’s a simple solution to that: Everyone uses the confessional. Problem solved and parishioners are happy they no longer have to look at Father while they’re baring their souls.”
 
Fr. David,

So in the first quote it talks about an open place like a church right? So most everyone is following that. But the second part of that…there is a stationary grating…not every churches are built to accomodate that. Even our seminary up the road has a reconciliation room like our parish has which does not have a stationary grate.
  1. The confessional for female penitents should always be located in an open and conspicuous place, generally in a church or otherwise in a public or semipublic oratory designated for women. The confessional should be built so that there is a stationary perforated grating between confessor and penitent.
The next part of that is confessions for females outside of the confessional. Would not the pastors office be appropriate…perhaps even more appropriate in cases such as our parish where the church might be almost empty but there are offices right outside of Fr’s office? I understand not in a private home or in the rectory-for Fr’s protection as well as the woman’s.

9. Confessions of female penitents should never be heard outside a confessional, except in the case of illness or some other real necessity, and observing then such precautionary measures as the local Ordinary deems opportune. Confessions of men, however, may be heard even in a private home.
Before anything else, we have to put all this into context.

Those rubrics were from the 1962 Roman Ritual.
There is a false notion prevalent in the Church today that somehow when the rites (any of them) were revised after Vatican II that we have “new” Sacraments. People talk about “pre-Vatican II confessions” or “post Vatican II confessions.” This is a false dichotomy. There is only one sacrament, but the ritual was revised in 1973. Sometimes, rules and rubrics do carry over from one version to the next, sometimes they do not. For example, the rule that says a priest cannot violate the Seal of Confession applies just as much today as it did in the past. On the other hand, some things do change, like the long-form of Absolution (God the Father of Mercies…). The short form “I absolve you…” has not changed.

The Confession rite printed in 1962 remains the “extraordinary form” today. So this isn’t just a matter of being curious about how things were like in the past–it’s relevant to the present.

Now, having said that, I think I can move on to your questions.

I think that rule #8 is meant to make clear that a church must have an appropriate place for women to confess. It cannot be an isolated area. Even in a house for women (like a convent) it still has to be a place where all the women residents can have access.

Canon law requires that confessionals have a fixed grate between the priest and penitent. Unfortunately this canon is often ignored, especially when someone is designing a new church or renovating an old one. Although it’s certainly true that we’ve seen these disappear in recent decades (and return in more recent years), doing so is not in harmony with canon law. The Church pre-supposes that confessionals will be build in accord with canon law, so likewise the Church pre-supposes that there will always be a fixed grille in a confessional.

Rule #9 says that confessions of women should always be heard in a proper confessional, unless there’s some necessity. That leaves a lot of room for interpretation. So, is it wrong to hear confessions of women in the parish office? Yes, but… If there’s a need, it’s acceptable. So a priest who says “we won’t have a confessional in this parish, instead I expect everyone to stop by the pastor’s office…” would be in the wrong (unless of course it’s temporary). On the other hand, if circumstances call for it and there’s no danger of anything improper, it is not (repeat not) wrong for a priest to hear a woman’s confession in the office.

Here again, we’re dealing with a conflict between what we see in practice and what the Church expects as described in canon law. The law (yes, the 1983 code) still requires that confessions generally be heard in a proper confessional. Naturally, we can all think of several examples where confessions may be heard outside of a confessional—lest we get a whole string of posts saying “what about a hospital visit?” or “what about this-or-that?”

Under normal, everyday circumstances, a confessional with a fixed grille must be available for confession.
 
Rather than recommend the return to traditional confessionals, our diocese now mandates that Reconciliation rooms have glass panes in the door to allow both the penitent and the priest to be seen. Since that hadn’t happened in our parish some bright soul decided to simply remove the door to the Reconciliation Room. That went over like a lead balloon!

In response, another bright soul took the closet next to the Reconciliation room, cut a ‘window’ in the shared wall, panelled the walls, installed a grate and a kneeler and, voilà!, a new confessional. It wasn’t done without the administrator’s OK, but it WAS a one-man mission that only a few people were privy to (his wife, and the guy whom he got to do the actual carpentry). Also reinstalled the door to the R.R. It’s driving the one who’d removed the door nuts “But, but, but we’re not in compliance with the diocese’s 'Responsible Ministry Policy!” “There’s a simple solution to that: Everyone uses the confessional. Problem solved and parishioners are happy they no longer have to look at Father while they’re baring their souls.”
Don’t like the idea of glass panes and windows into reconciliation rooms or confessionals. That just makes me feel like I’m on display to the people outside.

I reviewed my diocese’s equivalent to your “Responsible Ministry Policy.” It resembled that of the conditions of a sex offender’s parole. :rolleyes: It saddens me that it has come to down to priests not being allowed to be left alone with children or vulnerable people unless another adult is present. 😦 What is this world coming to? Really, the people who come up with these policies do it to themselves with catholics thinking all priests are sex offenders.
 
Problem solved and parishioners are happy they no longer have to look at Father while they’re baring their souls."
I would be one of those not happy…I prefer the face to face…and have been blessed at times by doing so as I was really able to see Christ in Father.
 
I’ve done face to face to confession. I’ve gone to Confession in various confessional setups. I much prefer the Confessional style with the screen between me and the priest. I like the anonymity in the Confessional offers.
 
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