penance

[cutiesmak]

Why do I always get the most difficult penances?? I’ve talked to some friends and my husband in a roundabout way about what they’ve confessed and their penance (with their consent and just trying to understand it) and they get simple ones like a few Hail Marys or something. And my husband confesses almost the exact same things as me. But the confessor always goes easy on my husband. Then I get things like say 3 rosaries or read the Acts of the Apostles!

I’m not complaining about doing them, because anything is good for my soul and my spiritual development, but why does my DH get off so easy??

 

[Claire_from_DE]

Wow! I’ve confessed some things I thought were pretty bad but I’ve never got penances like that. Why don’t you ask the priest.

 

[Joannm]

I agree, those are pretty big penances. Even for “biggies” I never got a penance like that. Once I had to bake a cake for a penance. That was about the hardest one I ever got.

 

[FickleFreckled]

I pretty much always get 1 Our Father and sometimes 3 Hail Mary’s, even when I returned to confession after many years away from the Church with some BIG sins to confess. The lightest penance I ever got was to say something nice to someone that day. Once in awhile I’ve been given a specific Biblical passage, usually when I was very upset by what I was confessing or when the confessor was also my spiritual director. An entire book? Is it always the same priest? Maybe he sees something in you, some potential for contemplative prayer or holiness and he’s trying to develop it? Definitely ask him; maybe he wants you to ask.

 

[nicolep]

Do you go to the same confessor as your husband? I have found no rhyme or reason for the penances I’ve received. While I haven’t received anything as difficult as you, some confessors have given me penances more hefty than others.

 

[Phemie]

I agree, those are pretty big penances. Even for “biggies” I never got a penance like that. Once I had to bake a cake for a penance. That was about the hardest one I ever got.

I just had a vision of confessing the sin of gluttony and being told to bake a cake and not eat any.

 

[bpbasilphx]

Why are you revealing what was told you in confession?

 

[nicolep]

Why are you revealing what was told you in confession?

The seal doesn’t apply to her…just the priest. She’s welcome to say whatever she wants about her confession. She also didn’t reveal anything about others’ confessions that were told in confidence.

 

[LilyM]

Why do I always get the most difficult penances?? I’ve talked to some friends and my husband in a roundabout way about what they’ve confessed and their penance (with their consent and just trying to understand it) and they get simple ones like a few Hail Marys or something. And my husband confesses almost the exact same things as me. But the confessor always goes easy on my husband. Then I get things like say 3 rosaries or read the Acts of the Apostles!

I’m not complaining about doing them, because anything is good for my soul and my spiritual development, but why does my DH get off so easy??

Just look at it as God giving you the opportunity to have less to suffer in purgatory than the others - that’s part of what penance is about, y’know.

 

[Joannm]

I just had a vision of confessing the sin of gluttony and being told to bake a cake and not eat any.

Now that WOULD be a difficult and unreasonable penance.

 

[brigid12]

I just had a vision of confessing the sin of gluttony and being told to bake a cake and not eat any.

I don’t know that I could do it.

 

[promethius]

Why do I always get the most difficult penances?? I’ve talked to some friends and my husband in a roundabout way about what they’ve confessed and their penance (with their consent and just trying to understand it) and they get simple ones like a few Hail Marys or something. And my husband confesses almost the exact same things as me. But the confessor always goes easy on my husband. Then I get things like say 3 rosaries or read the Acts of the Apostles!

I’m not complaining about doing them, because anything is good for my soul and my spiritual development, but why does my DH get off so easy??

Those are “hard” penances? Try fasting sometime.
(I kid, I’ve never gotten fasting as a penance)

In response: penance is a matter of feeling on the part of the priest. I had one confession where I nearly ended in tears. My penance? Sit in the chapel and meditate on the redemptive love of a God who would die for us who betrayed Him. No time limit. No other constrictions. I didn’t sit. I kneeled on the floor and prayed/meditated for about an hour.

The point is, penance is going to vary from person to person. It’s not JUST the acts of the person confessing, but also their disposition. See, penance isn’t justice at all (nothing we do can ever undo the damage our sin causes, or make us truly righteous), it’s not “punishment”. Penance is medicine, prescribed in the dose that the priest sees fit to repair the internal damage that sin does to the soul. The night of that confession, I needed more than anything to know that God still loved me and my penance helped me find that and made me whole again. Perhaps your focus should be less on what you HAVE to do, and more one why you SHOULD do it and how it HELPS you to do it.

 

[promethius]

Just look at it as God giving you the opportunity to have less to suffer in purgatory than the others - that’s part of what penance is about, y’know.

I don’t think it’s truly safe to make that statement. As I said above, penance is not about metting out equal justice, because nothing we do can atone for the damage our sin causes externally. Penance is designed to heal an individuals soul on a case by case basis and on need. This is solely at the discretion of the priest and it is innappropriate for the laity to judge that one person will have “less to suffer in purgatory” based off the number of prayers that they said after a confession.

 

[LilyM]

I don’t think it’s truly safe to make that statement. As I said above, penance is not about metting out equal justice, because nothing we do can atone for the damage our sin causes externally. Penance is designed to heal an individuals soul on a case by case basis and on need. This is solely at the discretion of the priest and it is innappropriate for the laity to judge that one person will have “less to suffer in purgatory” based off the number of prayers that they said after a confession.

I beg to differ. The whole point of the system of indulgences is not just that part of your Purgatory IS certainly remitted, merely for the saying of the specific indulgenced prayers (accompanied by certain other acts in the case of plenary indulgences), but ALSO that the amount can, to some degree, be quantified.

Some prayers being enriched with a partial indulgence, others a plenary, it’s pretty safe to assume, for example, that one who says a prayer (and fulfils all the other requirements) to which a plenary indulgence is attached is likely to have more of their purgatory remitted than someone who says a merely partially indulgenced prayer, no?

Or that one who repeats a particular partially-indulgenced prayer THREE times is going to have more of their Purgatory remitted than one who repeats it merely once, no?

On a similar general principle, it’s not unsafe to say that someone who prays more than another, especially when the prayer is part and parcel of the Sacrament of Penance, is likely to gain more graces, to put it in a commonly used terminology, and for that reason alone have less to suffer in Purgatory, than the other.

 

[paperwight]

I beg to differ. The whole point of the system of indulgences is not just that part of your Purgatory IS certainly remitted, merely for the saying of the specific indulgenced prayers (accompanied by certain other acts in the case of plenary indulgences), but ALSO that the amount can, to some degree, be quantified.
that one who repeats a particular partially-indulgenced prayer THREE times is going to have more of their Purgatory remitted than one who repeats it merely once, no?

On a similar general principle, it’s not unsafe to say that someone who prays more than another, especially when the prayer is part and parcel of the Sacrament of Penance, is likely to gain more graces, to put it in a commonly used terminology, and for that reason alone have less to suffer in Purgatory, than the other.

So you are saying that we can buy our way out of purgatory by saying a lot of prayers? That really seems unfair to those who haven’t the luxury of a lot of spare time to spend on their knees.

And logically, nuns don’t have to go to purgatory?

 

[Pax_Vobiscum_57]

You could move to my area. There’s one priest, you could confess that you murdered your whole family and danced around the bodies, and he’d give you one Our Father as penance.

He always has a line of penitents.

 

[LilyM]

So you are saying that we can buy our way out of purgatory by saying a lot of prayers? That really seems unfair to those who haven’t the luxury of a lot of spare time to spend on their knees.

And logically, nuns don’t have to go to purgatory?

And I suppose you think there’s nothing else by way of good works or penances that can serve to mitigate our purgatory - for example putting up graciously with the irritations offered daily by coworkers, clients, spouse or children? Suffering patiently when we are ill? Suffering martyrdom, in ways great and small, for His sake? Giving alms to the poor? Fasting and abstinence as we are commanded to do in Lent?

In other words no-one lacks opportunities to pay off their sin debt ‘to the last penny’, as Christ said we all must. Prayer is only one means by which we can do so.

So let’s be clear - you think our purgatory is remitted … by what, exactly? By ‘confessing with our mouth’ a belief in Jesus as our saviour? By a simple reliance on His death, when even Paul tells us that WE must make up something in addition to His earthly sufferings in our own flesh?

Awfully unfair, in either case, to those who’ve never had the opportunity to hear His name or learn that He died to save us, don’t you think?

 

[paperwight]

And I suppose you think there’s nothing else by way of good works or penances that can serve to mitigate our purgatory - for example putting up graciously with the irritations offered daily by coworkers, clients, spouse or children? Suffering patiently when we are ill? Suffering martyrdom, in ways great and small, for His sake? Giving alms to the poor? Fasting and abstinence as we are commanded to do in Lent?

In other words no-one lacks opportunities to pay off their sin debt ‘to the last penny’, as Christ said we all must. Prayer is only one means by which we can do so.

You’ve actually made my point for me : it’s precisely because I believe that enduring whatever suffering goes with one’s state in life, giving alms to the poor and so on are so important that I query the stress laid on saying prayers and the seeking out of indulgences.
When Our Lord spoke about the Last Judgment, were the people separated into two groups according to whether they fed the hungry and so on, or whether they said a lot of prayers?

 

[LilyM]

LilyM;4360920:

And I suppose you think there’s nothing else by way of good works or penances that can serve to mitigate our purgatory - for example putting up graciously with the irritations offered daily by coworkers, clients, spouse or children? Suffering patiently when we are ill? Suffering martyrdom, in ways great and small, for His sake? Giving alms to the poor? Fasting and abstinence as we are commanded to do in Lent?

In other words no-one lacks opportunities to pay off their sin debt ‘to the last penny’, as Christ said we all must. Prayer is only one means by which we can do so.

You’ve actually made my point for me : it’s precisely because I believe that enduring whatever suffering goes with one’s state in life, giving alms to the poor and so on are so important that I query the stress laid on saying prayers and the seeking out of indulgences.
When Our Lord spoke about the Last Judgment, were the people separated into two groups according to whether they fed the hungry and so on, or whether they said a lot of prayers?

Scripture is loud and clear on the importance of plenty of prayer. Firstly look at the behaviour of Jesus Himself, and the Apostles. Their example demonstrates the importance of prayer - and they are our rolemodels in all things, no?

Now Jesus didn’t just pray - He PRAYED - as in forty days of prayer (combined with fasting, note He didn’t fast alone, though He often prayed without fasting) in the wilderness to prepare for His ministry. Up all night praying prior to choosing the Apostles. Up all night praying in Gethsemane - and I think more than a few other occasions where He either got up very early to pray or stayed up all night in prayer.

Now one of the few direct requests the Apostles made to Him requesting His teaching was ‘teach us how to pray’ - clearly they recognised the significance and importance of prayer and wanted to learn Jesus’ secret. And they followed His example of plenty of prayer as well - praying long and hard. Nine whole days of fervent prayer by those same Apostles between the Ascension and Pentecost for starters.

Finally, and I don’t know how it could possibly be clearer, we have the words of St Paul who tells us to ‘pray UNCEASINGLY’. Not just to pray, or even to pray a lot, but UNceasingly.

But wait, there’s more. What is prayer? It is communication with God, no? We speaking to Him and listening in our hearts for His response? Why on earth do you think He would be pleased to see people in Heaven face to face who hardly ever or never bothered to converse or communicate with Him while on Earth?

And do such people honestly WANT to be in Heaven, for that matter? What exactly do you think we’ll be doing IN heaven? Revelations gives us a clue - unceasing (LITERALLY, as we can’t be literally unceasing in our prayer on Earth) prayer in praise of God! You want to get into Heaven, you have to start living as if it’s already here you know - in other words plenty of prayer.

 

[brigid12]

LilyM;4360920:

And I suppose you think there’s nothing else by way of good works or penances that can serve to mitigate our purgatory - for example putting up graciously with the irritations offered daily by coworkers, clients, spouse or children? Suffering patiently when we are ill? Suffering martyrdom, in ways great and small, for His sake? Giving alms to the poor? Fasting and abstinence as we are commanded to do in Lent?

In other words no-one lacks opportunities to pay off their sin debt ‘to the last penny’, as Christ said we all must. Prayer is only one means by which we can do so.

You’ve actually made my point for me : it’s precisely because I believe that enduring whatever suffering goes with one’s state in life, giving alms to the poor and so on are so important that I query the stress laid on saying prayers and the seeking out of indulgences.
When Our Lord spoke about the Last Judgment, were the people separated into two groups according to whether they fed the hungry and so on, or whether they said a lot of prayers?

Lily is right about the Church’s teaching.:yup: That both faith and works are necessary to reach The Kingdom and that the penance that your confessor gives you after a confession, remits some of the time necessary in purgatory for the temporal “messes” that we make. One often hears of forgiven sins being like breaking the window of your neighbor’s house. Even if/when your neighbor forgives you, it’s still necessary to pay for a new one.
Prayer is one (important) type of “work”. It, when said devoutly, also allows us grace to come closer to sanctity/Him.:dancing: