Penitentiary rite omitted at mass

[Dulcinea2721]

The new priest at our parish omits the part where the congregation says

“I confess to almighty God and to you my brothers and sisters that I have sinned…”

There is a general statement made about calling to mind the times when we have sinned but that is all.

Is the penitentiary rite optional?

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

There are various options for the penitential rite. The Confeitor (“I confess…”) is one of them. This page shows the various options: liturgies.net/Liturgies/Catholic/roman_missal/roman_missal_order_of_mass.htm Please note that the priest selects which option he wants to use.

The penitential rite can also be replaced (especially in the Easter season) by a sprinkling rite and may be replaced if there are baptisms or certain RCIA rites.

 

[Usige]

Yes, it is permitted. At my local parish the Confeiteor is rarely used (perhaps 6-8 times a year). Generally the 3rd option is chosen (You were sent to heal the contrite of heart/Lord, have mercy; You came to call sinners/Christ, have mercy; You are seated at the right hand of the Father/Lord, have mercy). Since the Kyrie is included in that form of the penitential act it is omitted also (not that we ever actually use the Greek). I think I’ve only hear option 2 used once or twice.

 

[AKDee]

We have three. One is super short, where it’s basically Lord have mercy, Christ have mercy, Lord have mercy in response. One is a bit longer, and none of us know that one by heart so we all have to look at it in the missal (one of the priests from town that sometimes subs at our Parish uses that one) and then the full on “I confess…”. I prefer the “I confess” version myself, but it’s up to the priest.

 

[Dulcinea2721]

There are various options for the penitential rite. The Confeitor (“I confess…”) is one of them. This page shows the various options: liturgies.net/Liturgies/Catholic/roman_missal/roman_missal_order_of_mass.htm Please note that the priest selects which option he wants to use.

The penitential rite can also be replaced (especially in the Easter season) by a sprinkling rite and may be replaced if there are baptisms or certain RCIA rites.

According to your reference, there is always a response from the congregation, and a prescribed formula.

At this mass the priest calls us to bring to mind our sins then straight into the kyrie.

It just seems so odd to me, like we are skipping an important part.

I do not want to stir trouble, just want to make sure it is correct. This is one of many things which give me pause.

Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut

 

[pianistclare]

According to your reference, there is always a response from the congregation, and a prescribed formula.

At this mass the priest calls us to bring to mind our sins then straight into the kyrie.

It just seems so odd to me, like we are skipping an important part.

I do not want to stir trouble, just want to make sure it is correct. This is one of many things which give me pause.

Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut

It’s fine.
We recall our sins…pause, and the proceed.
Why would that seem odd to you?

 

[Graceful_Lamb]

The church I attend does the “I confess to my sisters and brothers…” at the beginning of Mass.

 

[Dulcinea2721]

It’s fine.
We recall our sins…pause, and the proceed.
Why would that seem odd to you?

Because there is no petition for forgiveness, you call to mind your sins and proceed. Should you not ask for forgiveness?

I have attended mass in many differvent languages and it always seems that in some way we are asking for the forgiveness of our sins, not simply re calling them.

 

[1ke]

According to your reference, there is always a response from the congregation, and a prescribed formula.

At this mass the priest calls us to bring to mind our sins then straight into the kyrie.

It just seems so odd to me, like we are skipping an important part.

I do not want to stir trouble, just want to make sure it is correct. This is one of many things which give me pause.

Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut

The Kyrie is a valid option for the penitential rite. Nothing amiss at your parish.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

The Kyrie is a valid option for the penitential rite. Nothing amiss at your parish.

Right.

Be thankful you’re not in my territorial parish. The priest starts with welcoming everybody and goes straight to his own little prayer about how we need to be nice people and good stewards of the earth. No Kyrie. No Gloria. (No creed, apostles, Nicene, Ig-Pay Atin-Lay, whatsoever, either). Totally adlibbed liturgy throughout, but everybody adores him because he’s so friendly and funny and it’s never BORING at Mass, nobody has to know anything by heart or worry about doing anything but singing the songs and clapping and hugging.

 

[Elizium23]

It is called the “Penitential Act”, not “Rite”

 

[paulrxp]

The new priest at our parish omits the part where the congregation says

“I confess to almighty God and to you my brothers and sisters that I have sinned…”

There is a general statement made about calling to mind the times when we have sinned but that is all.

Is the penitentiary rite optional?

At my parish there’s only one priest that almost never includes the confiteor , and never the the NIcean Creed always the Apostles Creed. When our pastor presides and he’s present, we pray the Nicean Creed. I personally prefer all the prayers as they were, Confiterr, Kyrie, Gloria, Nicean, etc During Holy Season Agnes Dei is sung as is in Latin. I wish they’d include the Credo as well because it’s wonderful in Latin.

Many visiting priests include all the prayers without the options when they preside, and I’m glad they do. The update of the Latin translation a few years ago was a change,which I’m glad they did. The English is closer to how it reads in the Latin Mass: ie. “And with thy spirit,”(et cum spiritu tuo ) instead of “And also with you”

 

[Dulcinea2721]

Right.

Be thankful you’re not in my territorial parish. The priest starts with welcoming everybody and goes straight to his own little prayer about how we need to be nice people and good stewards of the earth. No Kyrie. No Gloria. (No creed, apostles, Nicene, Ig-Pay Atin-Lay, whatsoever, either). Totally adlibbed liturgy throughout, but everybody adores him because he’s so friendly and funny and it’s never BORING at Mass, nobody has to know anything by heart or worry about doing anything but singing the songs and clapping and hugging.

Also rolling my eyes.

It is my point of view that priests should aim to please God not the congregation.

 

[Dulcinea2721]

At my parish there’s only one priest that almost never includes the confiteor , and never the the NIcean Creed always the Apostles Creed. When our pastor presides and he’s present, we pray the Nicean Creed. I personally prefer all the prayers as they were, Confiterr, Kyrie, Gloria, Nicean, etc During Holy Season Agnes Dei is sung as is in Latin. I wish they’d include the Credo as well because it’s wonderful in Latin.

Many visiting priests include all the prayers without the options when they preside, and I’m glad they do. The update of the Latin translation a few years ago was a change,which I’m glad they did. The English is closer to how it reads in the Latin Mass: ie. “And with thy spirit,”(et cum spiritu tuo ) instead of “And also with you”

Does this invalidate the Mass or are all these things optional

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Does this invalidate the Mass or are all these things optional

There are many options within the Mass. There are options for the penitential rite, which Eucharistic prayer is used, Nicene Creed or Apostles Creed, etc. The priest can choose the options he likes. When the Church gives options they are all valid.

 

[Dulcinea2721]

There are many options within the Mass. There are options for the penitential rite, which Eucharistic prayer is used, Nicene Creed or Apostles Creed, etc. The priest can choose the options he likes. When the Church gives options they are all valid.

I thought they could choose different options not whether or not to include certain parts.

Sound like I was mistaken:shrug:

 

[Gorgias]

I thought they could choose different options not whether or not to include certain parts.

Sound like I was mistaken:shrug:

These are different options: Confiteor with Kyrie or Tropes; Apostles’ Creed or Nicene Creed. Nothing here omits a part, but rather, simply gives the opportunity to choose one option out of two or three.

 

[Brendan]

There are many options within the Mass. There are options for the penitential rite, which Eucharistic prayer is used, Nicene Creed or Apostles Creed, etc. The priest can choose the options he likes. When the Church gives options they are all valid.

I believe that was in response to Tantums parish priest omitting things like the Gloria. Assuming that the day was a Sunday or Solemnity, that would most certainly be an error.

 

[Dulcinea2721]

These are different options: Confiteor with Kyrie or Tropes; Apostles’ Creed or Nicene Creed. Nothing here omits a part, but rather, simply gives the opportunity to choose one option out of two or three.

Thanks for your response.

The way I was reading the penitential rite “formula”, when it was said with the Kyrie, the priest had to recite “something” then the congregation responds with the “Lord have mercy”, then the priest says another prayer and the congregation responds “Christ have mercy” etc.

Maybe I am not finding the correct words to explain what I mean. When I go to mass in french, the confiteor is never said, however, the priest always leads us into a prayer of asking for forgiveness and the congregation responds with “Lord have mercy” etc. In the fashion stated above.

That is the parts that I thought was missing.

If you are saying that asking the congregation to call to mind our sins then “Lord have mercy, Christ have mercy, Lord have mercy” is all that is required, then I will accept that.

Ordinarily I am not this nit-picky but this priest in particular is doing many things which are raising my antennae. Just want to make sure that I have it straight.

Thank you for being patient with me

 

[Gorgias]

Thanks for your response.

The way I was reading the penitential rite “formula”, when it was said with the Kyrie, the priest had to recite “something” then the congregation responds with the “Lord have mercy”, then the priest says another prayer and the congregation responds “Christ have mercy” etc.

Aah. Makes sense. Take a look in your missalette at church. The three options are:

1. Confiteor, followed by the Kyrie.
2. Tropes (e.g., “You were sent to heal the contrite of heart: Lord, have mercy… You came to call sinners: Christ, have mercy… You are seated at the right hand of the Father to intercede for us: Lord, have mercy…”)
3. “Have mercy on us, O Lord” / “For we have sinned against you.”
   “Show us, O Lord, your mercy.” / “And grant us your salvation.”

Following whichever one of these the celebrant chooses to use, there is the absolution by the priest (“May Almighty God have mercy on us…”).

Ordinarily I am not this nit-picky but this priest in particular is doing many things which are raising my antennae. Just want to make sure that I have it straight.

Thank you for being patient with me

No problems. It’s all good!