Penmanship

[Sarabande]

Why exactly is “penmanship” needed in this day and age?

1. As others have noted, not everyone has a computer. Where I attended university, it was in the city. I volunteered time to tutoring the inner-city kids there and many of them did not have computers and had to learn “penmanship”. When I was teaching, I also had students who did not own a computer and so the composer/instrument reports I had my older students do would sometimes be handed into me handwritten. My family didn’t own a computer until I was out of the house and in college and there I used the computers either at the computer labs or my roommate’s computer when she wasn’t on it.
2. Because my family didn’t own a computer, all of my assignments through high school was handwritten. The teachers requested it to be handwritten - not printed. The same with my college professors. Most of my courses were writing courses since I majored in journalism. The majority of my exams were all essay exams. Again, many of my professors required us to have eligible penmanship (no printing) whenever we had to do any actual pen to paper in-class assignments or our exams. We did have computers in our classrooms for each person, btw, but it was also important for us to know how to write down on paper.
3. It’s faster to write in cursive than it is to print. In some people’s jobs, you still have to take notes on paper and it is much easier and faster to write cursive.
4. For some people, their learning and retention involved actively writing the information down rather than typing it down. For me, as an example, if I just write down a note in a book or on a piece of music, it’s much easier for me to remember. I can recall the page in my book where I wrote it down, what the page looked like - especially if there was picture on it or a certain phrase in music, etc - It’s a lot faster for me to write it in cursive than to print it. Whenever I start to print, I end up just doing cursive.
5. People still need to write their signatures. That usually entails cursive, not printing.
6. I’ve worked for many bosses who would overlook someone that didn’t know how to write cursive, or require a person who continually printed, to write in cursive. This is basically because cursive looked more professional than printing. This also went along with electronic signatures. Everyone was required to do their signatures in cursive.

Don’t get me wrong, I do like the computer and am very proficient in it. But penmanship is still important in this day and age. It isn’t like crocheting at all. Of course, penmanship can become an art like crocheting, but cursive it is still used and required in every day life without the artistic side to it.

 

[Sarabande]

1. Maybe my doctor’s office is odd, but every prescription or referral I receive is handwritten. So, if someone wants to be a doctor (or ever goes in to see one), learning how to write or read handwritten communication is important.
2. Not everyone has computers. My sister lives in Wyoming, and she didn’t own a computer for the first 4 years she lived there. She just couldn’t afford one. She has one now, but no internet (yet) and no printer.
3. When my computer is out of commission, I can still make a grocery list for my husband and he can read it.
4. I don’t have a cell phone, iPod, Blackberry (hahahaha, I typed “Blueberry” first ), laptop, or other glitzy gadget that I take with me everywhere. A pen and something to write on is important to have, in case I need to write down a license plate, phone number, address, or instructions. When I was in college, I used pen and paper to take notes during lectures (couldn’t afford a laptop).
5. Etiquette (does that count as a non-emotional reason?) demands hand-writing certain things. I’m thinking about addressing wedding invitations, baby shower thank-you notes, etc.
6. Having several different skills at your disposal, in order to express ideas and communicate to others, is incredibly valuable, because you never know when you’ll need to make use of them.

All so true!!!

BTW - My dad is a physician, and he still handwrites all of his prescriptions. There are some doctors I went to that had computerized prescriptions, but most still write their prescriptions.

 

[chevalier]

I think it’s sad. You see, my handwriting was so bad growing up (I had motor skill issues and weak muscle tone as a child) that typing was always emphasized for me. Yet, at the same time, I think it made things worse. I was never encouraged to just keep practicing and work on it. The problem is, there are situations where you need to write by hand (like when college professors don’t want you to have a computer because they either don’t like the sound or they know how many kids will choose to use Facebook instead of pay attention) and it’s hard when you can’t even read your own writing…

Same here. But with time, I got a pen with a real nib and I started writing more than just signatures and salutations. I’ve both enjoyed it more and actually produced something legible. Writing bigger letters seems to help, too.

 

[Cat]

In the very near future, very few doctors will handwrite their own prescriptions.

In our city, this will happen in the next few months.

Too many errors, including fatal errors. Too many people who misuse the RX because they can’t read the doctors instructions. Too many abuses of prescriptions by patients who are addicted. Too many lawsuits–way too many lawsuits!

So in the next few months, ALL prescription by doctors in our healthcare system will be submitted online to the pharmacies. No handwritten RXs anymore.

I personally am jumping for joy. It’s way overdue.

 

[Cat]

As for people not owning computers, I predict that in the very near future, pretty much everyone will own and use a computer.

Think about radios and televisions. There was a time not that long ago when many people didn’t have them. Now almost everyone, even the very poor, owns a television. (My brother’s company gives every employee a portable TV at Christmas. He works for a scrap metal company, in case you’re wondering. The CEO thinks that a TV is a better gift than a turkey or gift certificate.)

Or cars. Lots of people didn’t own cars even in the 1940s and 1950s. Now almost everyone owns or at least has access to a car.

Or calculators. I remember when they first came out in the mid 1970s. Only the math geeks owned one. Now calculators come in McDonald’s Happy Meals! (or they’re on computers)

Or VCRs. In the 1980s, before we had babies, we used to go to a houseparty
every weekend at the house of a man who owned one of the earliest VCRS. That sucker was huge, as big as a washing machine, and it cost as much as a car! We used to gape at the wonder of being able to watch recorded television shows.

Pretty soon almost everyone owned a VCR. And now they’re obsolete, and almost everyone owns a DVD player, TiVo, or some other variation.

The PDAs are slower to catch on, but I believe they’ll soon be in almost every pocket and purse. Most people I know who own one wonder how they ever survived without it.

I think that computers and other electronic communication devides will get lighter, smaller, and much cheaper, and eventually, they’ll be the prizes in the McDonald’s Happy Meals.

It’s gotten to the point now in the U.S. where people who don’t own or use computers are becoming like 2nd Class (or lower) citizens. This can’t continue. We can’t have a nation split into “castes” based on who does and who doesn’t own computers. I predict that soon, the government will mandate that every household will have a computer.

There are lots of organizations that re-tool and re-furbish old computers and give them away for free to the poor. My husband tells me that even ancient computers are capable of doing a lot of the online stuff that the newest computers do. They’re just much slower. (I can still remember how long it took to do things on my husbands old IBM PC, the very first model! You could literally wash the dishes while waiting for the computer to boot up!)

My husband works for a major computer company (the one with 3 letters). There have been lots of experiments in poor school districts and ghettos with giving each child a laptop. It seems to improve performance in school.

Our kids’ school required laptops for all kids 6th grade through 12th grade. All their work was submitted on laptop. Most of the tests were done on the laptop.

So I’m afraid that the reason “not everyone owns a computer” doesn’t seem valid, at least not for much longer.

 

[Cat]

As for scratching out grocery lists, notes to self, ideas for novels or inventions on napkins, etc.–you don’t have to be able to write pretty to do this.

I just finished grocery shopping with a very long list, handwritten (because our grocery store just remodeled after 20 years, and so now my computerized list, which was in order of how the store was laid out, is useless. ). I doubt any of you could read what was on that list. It looks like heiroglyphics. But I could read it, and that’s all that matters. You could use shorthand to write a grocery list, To Do list, Christmas list, etc. It doesn’t matter how legible it is, as long as the person who will be using it can read it.

I will give some merit to the idea that reading cursive is a skill that will help children to read certain historical documents, letters, etc. (although most of these have been transcribed into type.)

But by the same argument, if we could all read Greek, Latin, Egyptian heiroglyps, Arabic, Sanskrit, etc., we would all be able to read many of the ancient classics, including the Bible.

Sure, if someone is interested in this, they should pursue it. I’m not interested in reading ancient works in their original Mss. and I think a lot of people feel the same way I do. I’m happy to leave it to the experts.

As for signing your name–well, most signatures are quite illegible. My daughter writes an E and then a squiggly line. My favorite actor does the same thing, only I can’t even read the first initial. A signature does not have to be neat to be legal.

 

[Truly_Beloved]

In the very near future, very few doctors will handwrite their own prescriptions.

I’m only saying this to be funny, but I agree that very few doctors will hand-write prescriptions because I believe we will have very few doctors.

As for people not owning computers, I predict that in the very near future, pretty much everyone will own and use a computer.

I must know a lot more people than you do who lack computers, radios, PDAs, etc. My sister doesn’t even have telephone lines that go out to her house, and “local” in Wyoming means “100 miles in any direction.”

I will give some merit to the idea that reading cursive is a skill that will help children to read certain historical documents, letters, etc. (although most of these have been transcribed into type.)

Ever read 1984? Everything is typed, so that the government can change history. Interesting concept, no?

As for signing your name–well, most signatures are quite illegible. My daughter writes an E and then a squiggly line. My favorite actor does the same thing, only I can’t even read the first initial. A signature does not have to be neat to be legal.

Ah, but if a signature is pretty, it’s less likely to be forged. I have had more than one person describe my signature as “a piece of art,” because it is so pretty and complicated.

---

Okay, so all of the rest of you can abandon the fine art of penmanship, while the few of us crazies keep the skill alive, so that when the world is thrown into pre-industrialized chaos as a result of nuclear warfare, hopefully a few of us will be around to rebuild society with pen and paper. Assuming we can find a pen…

 

[Rascalking]

Is it just me, or do men have worse handwriting then women? (joking, joking)

Still, even with today’s computer technology, to be able to have clear handwriting should still be a basic tool. You can’t type everything. No, it doesn’t have to be cursive all the time, but it should be readable for others. I still switch back and forth myself. Luckily, my children’s school stress neatness when it comes to handwriting. And I do too when it comes to homework.

Yes! Men have horrible handwriting. Mine is tumor inducing to read.

 

[NPalmby]

1. Maybe my doctor’s office is odd, but every prescription or referral I receive is handwritten. So, if someone wants to be a doctor (or ever goes in to see one), learning how to write or read handwritten communication is important.

I agree with your points, but I do want to mention that all of the doctor’s offices I’ve been to around here (Orlando, FL) use computer-printed prescriptions, and don’t even include a signature because it’s on letterhead.

 

[Brenda_V]

I am like you Truly - I run into a lot of people who don’t have computers nor do they have access to one except at the library - you try and write your homework at the library with half of the other non-computer owning students!

I also still do much on paper, not just my grocery list! I sell Avon and also am a leadership Representative so I sign people up. I have a written contract I must fill out and turn in with a signature.

My daughter is a representative of another home based business, her customers write on their order forms what they are ordering as well as their name and phone number. I don’t see these paper order forms going anywhere too soon because not only does the rep. get a copy the customer gets one as proof of purchase until her order gets here. The hostess gets a copy too so she can know who gets what when it gets to her door.

Nope, I don’t see us 100% relying on computers although I do a lot of my business on the computer including my own invoicing.

As for doctors sending prescriptions via computer to the pharmacy that is a good thing but I sure hope he gives me a copy of that prescription because like it or not there is still a human factor in everything we do and if I didn’t have a copy of the prescription in my hand and there was either a computer glitch or human error I at least have proof of what I was supposed to be getting. And yes, it could be computer generated.

Brenda V.

 

[Sarabande]

As for people not owning computers, I predict that in the very near future, pretty much everyone will own and use a computer.

Think about radios and televisions. There was a time not that long ago when many people didn’t have them. Now almost everyone, even the very poor, owns a television. (My brother’s company gives every employee a portable TV at Christmas. He works for a scrap metal company, in case you’re wondering. The CEO thinks that a TV is a better gift than a turkey or gift certificate.)

Or cars. Lots of people didn’t own cars even in the 1940s and 1950s. Now almost everyone owns or at least has access to a car.

Or calculators. I remember when they first came out in the mid 1970s. Only the math geeks owned one. Now calculators come in McDonald’s Happy Meals! (or they’re on computers)

Or VCRs. In the 1980s, before we had babies, we used to go to a houseparty
every weekend at the house of a man who owned one of the earliest VCRS. That sucker was huge, as big as a washing machine, and it cost as much as a car! We used to gape at the wonder of being able to watch recorded television shows.

Pretty soon almost everyone owned a VCR. And now they’re obsolete, and almost everyone owns a DVD player, TiVo, or some other variation.

The PDAs are slower to catch on, but I believe they’ll soon be in almost every pocket and purse. Most people I know who own one wonder how they ever survived without it.

I think that computers and other electronic communication devides will get lighter, smaller, and much cheaper, and eventually, they’ll be the prizes in the McDonald’s Happy Meals.

Still not the same thing. Writing has been around for centuries, whereas these gadgets come and go or are improved upon. People still need to learn how to write with a pen and paper, especially if, God forbid, something occurs where the use of computers, pdas and the like cannot be used. OR even if you are in an area or situation where there is no access to these things for whatever reason.

It’s gotten to the point now in the U.S. where people who don’t own or use computers are becoming like 2nd Class (or lower) citizens. This can’t continue. We can’t have a nation split into “castes” based on who does and who doesn’t own computers. I predict that soon, the government will mandate that every household will have a computer.

I really hope that prediction doesn’t happen. I’m really getting tired of having new laws and mandates for almost everything we do. It’s ok to give people a right to have certain things, liberties, etc., but to mandate it? No thanks. My family and I have always marched to the beat of a different drummer and these governmental mandates and laws just continually strip that from those who are different from the status quo. I don’t need that.

I personally see a potential danger in a people relying heavily just on computerized devices for communication and such. It can be great. I do like my computer to a certain extent. But at the same time, it can also create and exacerbate certain problems within society as well as individually. But that is all for a different thread and I don’t want to highjack this one.

 

[smswife]

I am only 47yo, but the idea that all handwritten notes will soon be considered like ancient manuscripts in a dead language makes me feel exceedingly old!

Now, I AM a doctor, and for the last two years have used electronic medical records and e-prescribing and the majority of the time have to hand write nothing but my signature.

HOWEVER, I frequently do have to hand write on forms, notes, etc. And when the computer system is down, or the power is out, I hand write (legibly I hope) my prescriptions.

I WRITE IN CURSIVE as do most other professionals.

Daily notes in hospital charts are still handwritten, mostly in cursive. Urgent care notes (after hours) in our office are hand written.

AND I still maintain that children who don’t know how to write cursive will never be able to read cursive.

Any student who wants to succeed in any profession or business where the leaders expect literacy in cursive handwriting will be seriously handicapped if they don’t have this skill.

 

[Sarabande]

…I will give some merit to the idea that reading cursive is a skill that will help children to read certain historical documents, letters, etc. (although most of these have been transcribed into type.) .

And also help children when they grow into adults be able to read their contemporaries’ handwriting, whether they are bosses, friends, family, etc. I still write love letters to my husband, letters to friends and family in cursive. It’s much faster than to print and much more meaningful than a typed out piece of paper or card.

Yikes!!! What a sad state we’re in when people can’t even write on paper to their dearest and nearest. Too much work? Laziness? Gosh, this discussion just hearkens me back to my childhood and highschool days with very similar discussions. The outlook I see, although I respect it and understand it to a certain extent, leaves that same dark void I used to feel as a youngster, especially in regards to certain groups or types of people. It just leaves me with sadness for them.

That aside and back from sad feelings of those days gone by of my overly melancholy, over-thought-out, overly serious, pre-pubescent and teenage self, I realize I’m just different and always will be. With these kinds of things, I’ll always be going against the grain and sometimes the common way of thought, so it’s probably best for me not to ponder it too much on this thread.

 

[Sarabande]

I am only 47yo, but the idea that all handwritten notes will soon be considered like ancient manuscripts in a dead language makes me feel exceedingly old!

Now, I AM a doctor, and for the last two years have used electronic medical records and e-prescribing and the majority of the time have to hand write nothing but my signature.

HOWEVER, I frequently do have to hand write on forms, notes, etc. And when the computer system is down, or the power is out, I hand write (legibly I hope) my prescriptions.

I WRITE IN CURSIVE as do most other professionals.

Daily notes in hospital charts are still handwritten, mostly in cursive. Urgent care notes (after hours) in our office are hand written.

Very well said. There are pros and cons to both elecronic and handwritten medical information. My father and his colleagues see the merit in both. I know it has been helpful for patient notes after physicals and checkups. YET, my father and most other doctors I know still write their own notes as well.

AND I still maintain that children who don’t know how to write cursive will never be able to read cursive.

Any student who wants to succeed in any profession or business where the leaders expect literacy in cursive handwriting will be seriously handicapped if they don’t have this skill.

Exactly. Many of the places where I’ve worked expected their professionals to be able to write in cursive handwriting.

Personally, I don’t see it becoming something ancient and dead. If it ever does in preference to computerized typing - something cold, souless, mechanical and easily manipulated - then our society will also have bigger problems to contend with… even more so than now. I believe too much in people’s warmth, love, heart and soul to think it could ever really get completely to that point. Although, at the same time, deep thinkers, intellectuals, spiritual men/women and writers have been warning against the danger of falling completely for this kind of thing for years. So, I suppose there is that potential where the entire world can become like that.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I am only 47yo, but the idea that all handwritten notes will soon be considered like ancient manuscripts in a dead language makes me feel exceedingly old!

Now, I AM a doctor, and for the last two years have used electronic medical records and e-prescribing and the majority of the time have to hand write nothing but my signature.

HOWEVER, I frequently do have to hand write on forms, notes, etc. And when the computer system is down, or the power is out, I hand write (legibly I hope) my prescriptions.

I WRITE IN CURSIVE as do most other professionals.

Daily notes in hospital charts are still handwritten, mostly in cursive. Urgent care notes (after hours) in our office are hand written.

AND I still maintain that children who don’t know how to write cursive will never be able to read cursive.

Any student who wants to succeed in any profession or business where the leaders expect literacy in cursive handwriting will be seriously handicapped if they don’t have this skill.

One of my doctors is a fountain pen use and collector. ALL his records are hand-written. He is vehement about that! And when you think about it, it is easier to ‘hack’ a computer-generated scrip than handwritten.

Maybe doctors should work at developing more readable handwriting.

 

[Catholic90]

In my 5th grade, we have handwriting for 30 minutes twice a week. Plus, ANYTHING that has written answers, except for math, MUST be written in cursive.

For spelling tests, open “a”, “o”, “g” etc get marked wrong. "e"s that are too high are marked wrong; "l"s that are too low are marked wrong. We are sticklers about neat handwriting. If it is too messy, they must stay in from recess and re-write it.

They learn to write letters, essays, paragraphs, fully explained answers, etc. all in cursive handwriting.

They also learn keyboarding in their computer class that they have twice a week.

So…for all essays (they write about 1 essay a month), their final rough draft must be turned in as cursive, and then their final copy must be typewritten on the computer.

 

[mizznicole]

I do think writing on paper is a slightly different mental process with its own particular outcomes.

Pretty much every engineer I know uses a white board at some level of his or her process.

Computers don’t offer this kind of wide visual plane with the ability to freehand draw. Except those hugely expensive Microsoft things they use on CNN.

 

[Sarabande]

Computers don’t offer this kind of wide visual plane with the ability to freehand draw.

You bring up a good example. My sister is a professional animator/illustrator. Much of what she does is on the computer. She has all the special things to use to actually draw on the computer with a special pen, along with other technical devices. BUT she and her other colleagues still have to do their drawings on paper as well. I agree that there is a different mental process when drawing on an actual piece of paper. Her education also consisted of many courses that required pen/pencil to actual paper - even though so much of what she does would be on the computer as well. Point is, both is needed for overall and well-rounded skill. She is actually just completing illustrations for a children’s book in which many of the illustrations was done on paper and then translated to computer and also work done just on the computer.

It’s the same as cursive writing. It is still an important skill to have for almost anyone, especially if a person plans on being in the professional world. I can also say that my brain works differently penning handwritten articles, stories, etc. when I worked as a journalist and writer, as well as something as private and simple as just writing a letter or thank you note.

 

[CB_Catholic]

All so true!!!

BTW - My dad is a physician, and he still handwrites all of his prescriptions. There are some doctors I went to that had computerized prescriptions, but most still write their prescriptions.

Most of the Doctor’s orders on a patient’s chart are still handwritten, and sloppy and illegible handwriting can lead to errors, sometimes dangerous ones, esp. when they concern medication. I think this is inexcusable. It doesn’t have to pretty, just legible. I just call them up and tell them point blank that I can’t read their handwriting. I’ve gotten some flak from a couple about this, but I don’t care. I’m not about to try and guess at what was written and put my patients at risk. This is one of my pet peeves as a nurse. It would take all of about 5 seconds to slow down and write a legible order, and would have saved them all the time they had to waste to come to the phone during their office hours, or even at home and clarify what they have written. God help them if they have to go to court–the lawyers would have a field day.

 

[Sarabande]

Most of the Doctor’s orders on a patient’s chart are still handwritten, and sloppy and illegible handwriting can lead to errors, sometimes dangerous ones, esp. when they concern medication. I think this is inexcusable. It doesn’t have to pretty, just legible. I just call them up and tell them point blank that I can’t read their handwriting. I’ve gotten some flak from a couple about this, but I don’t care. I’m not about to try and guess at what was written and put my patients at risk. This is one of my pet peeves as a nurse. It would take all of about 5 seconds to slow down and write a legible order, and would have saved them all the time they had to waste to come to the phone during their office hours, or even at home and clarify what they have written. God help them if they have to go to court–the lawyers would have a field day.

I just typed something but it seems it was lost. I hope I don’t double post…

Definitely you should contact the doctor if you can’t decipher the handwriting. It would be inexcusable, negligent and to some extent, incompetant, for a nurse, caregiver, pharmacist, etc. to just guess the orders. I would think much less of a medical care giver and in some ways hold them more accountable if I found out that the reason there was an error was because a nurse or whomever did not take the time to double check with the doctor due to illegible handwriting. They’d be just as culpable in a law suit. (My mother and several of my aunts are nurses and my father was actually a pharmacist prior to becoming a doctor - which helps because he has a much more complete understanding of ordering prescriptions than other doctors have - so I am totally aware of all sides of this.)

Some doctors are arrogant, unfortunately, so I’d be like you and wouldn’t care if I got flak for calling them up. Personally, if I was a doctor and was constantly getting calls regarding my orders, maybe it’s time for me to reevaluate how I write - not get annoyed at others. And you’re right. Slowing down just 5 seconds can make all the difference. My dad doesn’t have the nicest handwriting, but it is still legible. I worked in his office from age 13 to 22 and I was able to read almost all of his notes/prescriptions when I would help take care of his patient charts. (And he also had those same notes dictated for backup) You are doing your job responsibly and nurses have to be just as strong, confident, intelligent and caring in their jobs as doctors have to be in theirs. A good doctor would expect that from a nurse, respect her/him for it and would know and recognize that much of the hospital care depends on the nursing staff. It’s a collaborative, team effort for the best of the patient.

That said, having things typed out doesn’t necessarily guarantee error-free orders or prescriptions. It can be more likely for a doctor to make typos - especially with numbers, as I’ve seen plenty of times in non-medical instances. And there is a tendency for people not to question an order as much when they see something typewritten. At least if handwriting is hard to decipher, you would hope that a competant, responsible caregiver would question the doctor on it rather than make a guess. People tend to trust more what is typed, when in reality they probably should be even more astute in detecting to possible errors/typos.