Pennace Rules Questions

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It is clear that during Lent, there are certain pennetential rules that we must adhere to under the pain of sin. But, what about other pennetential days such as Advent and Fridays. Is pennance simply an encouragement during these times or is there some obligation under the pain of sin? Any other days or rules?
 
The answer depends on your Episcopal Conference. In the United States, they are not binding under pain of sin.

From the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops’ 1966 Pastoral Statement On Penance And Abstinence, emphasis mine:
24. Among the works of voluntary self-denial and personal penance which we especially commend to our people for the future observance of Friday, even though we hereby terminate the traditional law of abstinence binding under pain of sin, as the sole prescribed means of observing Friday, we give first place to abstinence from flesh meat.We do so in the hope that the Catholic community will ordinarily continue to abstain from meat by free choice as formerly we did in obedience to Church law. (source)
 
Thank you.

I read that earlier and it seems that it may be saying that you don’t have to abstain from meat under pain of sin, but that you have to do something else instead. Am I reading this wrong? Also, what about Advent?

Tks,

Ed
 
expectthebest said:
Thank you.

I read that earlier and it seems that it may be saying that you don’t have to abstain from meat under pain of sin, but that you have to do something else instead. Am I reading this wrong? Also, what about Advent?

Tks,

Ed
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It is simply advised to do penance on Fridays outside of Lent and during Advent. The Bishops terminated the obligation under pain of sin to do any penance on Fridays outside of Lent, so we are not obliged to replace abstinence with another penance. Fridays remain a day of penance, but we are not obligated under pain of sin to do anything.
 
expectthebest said:
It is clear that during Lent, there are certain pennetential rules that we must adhere to under the pain of sin. But, what about other pennetential days such as Advent and Fridays. Is pennance simply an encouragement during these times or is there some obligation under the pain of sin? Any other days or rules?
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The term “under pain of sin” is not found anywhere in the 1983 code of canon law.
 
Confiteor_Deo said:
It is simply advised to do penance on Fridays outside of Lent and during Advent. The Bishops terminated the obligation under pain of sin to do any penance on Fridays outside of Lent, so we are not obliged to replace abstinence with another penance. Fridays remain a day of penance, but we are not obligated under pain of sin to do anything.
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No, they did not.

It is not in the competence of the episcopal conference to terminate the obligation to do penance on Fridays, because this is Divine Law. What the USCCB did is terminate the requirement that the penance take the form of abstinence from meat.

Fridays remain a day of penance, and we remain obliged under pain of sin to do some form of penance on all Fridays of the year. Personally, I choose to abstain from meat, as is highly recommended by the USCCB.
 
Elizium23 said:
No, they did not.

It is not in the competence of the episcopal conference to terminate the obligation to do penance on Fridays, because this is Divine Law. What the USCCB did is terminate the requirement that the penance take the form of abstinence from meat.

Fridays remain a day of penance, and we remain obliged under pain of sin to do some form of penance on all Fridays of the year. Personally, I choose to abstain from meat, as is highly recommended by the USCCB.
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They certainly did terminate the obligation under pain of sin to do penance on Fridays. Here is a video of Jimmy Akin talking about it briefly, and here is an article of his that is more thorough than the video. I wish the Bishops hadn’t done this, but I grudgingly had to accept the fact that they did after speaking with a priest on the matter.
 
Confiteor_Deo said:
They certainly did terminate the obligation under pain of sin to do penance on Fridays. Here is a video of Jimmy Akin talking about it briefly, and here is an article of his that is more thorough than the video. I wish the Bishops hadn’t done this, but I grudgingly had to accept the fact that they did after speaking with a priest on the matter.
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Jimmy Akin is wrong. We’ve been over this. I trust Father David’s word, he is a priest and excellent canonist.
 
Confiteor_Deo said:
I am not inclined to believe that he is wrong because two priests that I have spoken to agree with him.
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And yet there is no proof. There is no statement that the bishops terminated penance. It can’t be found. Unsurprising because they have no authority to terminate penance. If you have a statement to the contrary then I encourage you to quote and link it.
 
So it seems there is significant disagreement. I have also had a Priest confirm that there is no obligation under pain of sin. How do we get to a resolution? Also, what about Advent?
 
Elizium23 said:
And yet there is no proof. There is no statement that the bishops terminated penance. It can’t be found. Unsurprising because they have no authority to terminate penance. If you have a statement to the contrary then I encourage you to quote and link it.
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Fr. Z, who is a renowned priest that is well versed in Canon Law, also is of the opinion that there is no obligation under pain of sin to do penance on ordinary Fridays. The priest that I inquired about this problem came from a traditional abbey nearby that trained all the priests in my parish; I have never found these priests to be in error nor have I found Fr. Z to be in error. The diocesan priest to which I spoke also hasn’t erred as far as I can remember.

Until the Bishops clarify this point of contention, there will be disagreement.
 
expectthebest said:
So it seems there is significant disagreement. I have also had a Priest confirm that there is no obligation under pain of sin. How do we get to a resolution? Also, what about Advent?
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Matthew 16:24 - Then Jesus said to his disciples: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. (also Mark 8:34 and Luke 9:23)

The life of a Christian is a life of penance. You can listen to Jimmy Akin or any of the other, so called, experts. I will obey my King.
 
JM3 said:
Matthew 16:24 - Then Jesus said to his disciples: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. (also Mark 8:34 and Luke 9:23)

The life of a Christian is a life of penance. You can listen to Jimmy Akin or any of the other, so called, experts. I will obey my King.
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Big difference between penance in a general sense and specific penance on a specific day under pain of specific sin. Nobody argued about penance in general. I’m asking about specific situations.
 
expectthebest said:
Big difference between penance in a general sense and specific penance on a specific day under pain of specific sin. Nobody argued about penance in general. I’m asking about specific situations.
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What specific situations? If you’re doing penance everyday, as you should be, what is the problem?

Advent?

Canon Law (1250) lists every Friday of the whole year and the season of Lent as penitential days and times, so Advent would not be.

Friday’s?

The USCCB’s statement says that Friday “remains a special day of penitential observance throughout the year” (22). Friday’s were an obligation before the statement and they remain an obligation after the statement. What the USCCB did was to abrogate one specific penance, so that other penances could be used in its place. They did not abrogate Friday penance. They don’t have the authority from the Vatican to do that.

Some will disagree and say that the statement is too vague. If you’re one of those, then you disregard the USCCB statement and follow Canon Law, which states that “abstinence from meat…is to be observed on all Fridays” that are not a solemnity.
 
Thank you.

It looks like there is significant disagreement on this, even with Priests and Catholic scholars. So, unfortunately I am no closer to answering the question than I was in the beginning. I do see your point but I also see valid arguments on the other side. Seems like it would be easy for the Church to clear this up, especially with so much confusion. I would guess the vast, vast majority of Catholics do not believe it is a sin to not do penance on Friday. Anecdotal evidence shows that many Priests, if not most, believe the same. So, with so much confusion, how is this to be cleared up? If the Church, like many other things, makes this an issue of salivation, it seems something that it should deal with.

It should also be said said that those who disagree with your view, Akin included, do not say that confusion or lack of clarity in the statement should then revert to the prior rule.
 
expectthebest said:
It should also be said said that those who disagree with your view, Akin included, do not say that confusion or lack of clarity in the statement should then revert to the prior rule.
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For your perusal. Please note Canon 21.

Code of Canon Law

Can. 19 If a custom or an express prescript of universal or particular law is lacking in a certain matter, a case, unless it is penal, must be resolved in light of laws issued in similar matters, general principles of law applied with canonical equity, the jurisprudence and practice of the Roman Curia, and the common and constant opinion of learned persons.

Can. 20 A later law abrogates, or derogates from, an earlier law if it states so expressly, is directly contrary to it, or completely reorders the entire matter of the earlier law. A universal law, however, in no way derogates from a particular or special law unless the law expressly provides otherwise.

Can. 21 In a case of doubt, the revocation of a pre-existing law is not presumed, but later laws must be related to the earlier ones and, insofar as possible, must be harmonized with them.

Can. 1249 The divine law binds all the Christian faithful to do penance each in his or her own way.
 
What if a Holy Day, such as Christmas this year, falls on a Friday? Our we obligated to do penance on a Holy Day?
 
expectthebest said:
What if a Holy Day, such as Christmas this year, falls on a Friday? Our we obligated to do penance on a Holy Day?
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The 1983 Code of Canon Law states:

Canon 1251: “Abstinence from eating meat or another food according to the prescriptions of the conference of bishops is to be observed on Fridays throughout the year unless (nisi) they are solemnities; abstinence and fast are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and on the Friday of the Passion and Death of Our Lord Jesus Christ.”
 
expectthebest said:
What if a Holy Day, such as Christmas this year, falls on a Friday? Our we obligated to do penance on a Holy Day?
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No, we are not obligated to do penance on a Holy Day. However, Jesus healed on the Sabbath. I doubt He would disapprove of an act of charity on a Holy Day.
 
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