Pentecostalism in Latin America:a personal experience seeing it

[Stillsosola]

I didn’t deny that Pentecostal missionaries and evangelists proselytized. What I said was that Pentecostalism is much deeper than crass pursuit of material prosperity.

agreed just as the catholic faith is much deeper than it appears all christian sects have thier similar and differing view points good of you to point out that it is deeper than the health wealth and prosperity concept just as catholicism is deeper than its concepts of good works many people point out as our weak points

 

[Matt_Guitar_Man]

I personally was stunned when I first realised that many non-Catholic Christians do not consider Catholics to be “saved” or even Christians and need to be converted.
A friend of mine who is an evangelical (and we have been good friends for a number of years, although when we did discuss religion we did so with respect for each others beliefs). Invited me to an AOG meeting as his brother had written a book and was going to be speaking about the book and giving the sermon.
Well was I in for a shock!! The book was basically about the correctness of Evangelical theology as opposed to the errors of all others including the Catholic Church and was written for about a primary school comprehension level.
Obviously my friend had told some regulars that I was coming and after the service many felt the need to try and convert me, nearly all ex-Catholics.
And this is when the problem starts! when does one stop being polite ( listening to the arguments, giving polite reply’s, putting forward the Catholic position etc.) and actually give these well intentioned but misinformed zealots a strong dose of truth in the form of sound Catholic doctrine, and not worry about hurting their feelings.
Also one thing that has always troubled me is Why do we as Catholics listen politely to these people hoping that our humility will create an impression on the person in front of us rather than trying to extinguish the fire in these people before they go on to spread these errors to countless others.
To sit through a book launch aimed at early teens that bundles the Catholic Church in with denominations such as Mormons and JW’s etc, and accusers the church of being involved in all sorts of gross error, was an eye opener for me. And to then politely say when being aggressively evangelised " Of course we in the Catholic Church recognise and know that all people who confess Christ as the son of God come in the flesh are fellow Christians and our fellow brethren in Christ, they are just not in full communion with Christ as this can only be found in Christ’s One, True, Holy and Apostolic Catholic Church". Is a lesson in humility.

 

[Steveabrous]

Hmm . . . interesting because the AG itself is officially opposed to it. “The Believer and Positive Confession” (AG position paper) and The Disease of the Health and Wealth Gospels by Gordon Fee, an ordained AG minister.

Also, take these relatively recent comments by AG General Superintendent George Wood reported in The Christian Post:

Responding to a question on the prosperity gospel, or the teaching that believers have a right to the blessings of health and wealth and that they can obtain these blessings through positive confessions of faith, Wood strongly rejected it.

“There are so many gimmicks in the body of Christ,” he said, “so many charlatans that are out there in the Christian media that are basically saying 'send me $100 and watch God bless you.”

“This is just nonsense,” he asserted.

“If the money that has been wasted by Christians on these people who live the lifestyle of kings and queens and do little to advance the Gospel of Jesus Christ had been spent instead on mission and on Christian higher education and upon this generation, we would be a lot further down the road than we are and these people are going to answer to God.”

Wood elaborated on Scripture passages that mention blessings.

“We have to take the truth of Scripture – the Lord loves a cheerful giver; what you sew, you reap some 30 fold, some 60 fold, etc. But that also has to be measured against the motive for giving. The motive for giving is not give in order to get. The motive for giving is to bless God, bless His work and bless other people,” he explained.​

I don’t think it can be rightly said that AG is opposed to it since AG is a collection of independent churches that are bound by a few doctrines, but are free to believe what they want outside of those precepts. I agree that there are some AG people who are warning against it, but I believe that to be fairly recent. The AG and pentecostal movement gained it’s numbers by leaps and bounds through the Televangelists promoting that doctrine through the 70’s 80’s an 90’s

 

[ltwin]

I don’t think it can be rightly said that AG is opposed to it since AG is a collection of independent churches that are bound by a few doctrines, but are free to believe what they want outside of those precepts.

The AG is not a collection of independent churches (despite what some in the AG may want to believe). AG churches are self-governing, and they have a range of church cultures and approaches to ministry. This is considered a source of strength by the AG itself. Nevertheless, the General Council’s constitution makes clear that AG affiliated churches are subordinate to district councils and the General Council in matters of doctrine.

The General Council is a representative body of the AG composed of ordained and licensed ministers and congregational delegates. It elects the members of the General and Executive Presbyteries which are the bodies that write up position papers and state the official positions of the denomination. So, to say that the AG has not taken a position on the prosperity theology simply because some ministers or members in the AG may teach parts or versions of the prosperity theology doesn’t make sense.

It would be like saying the Catholic Church hasn’t taken stances on positions because a few rogue priests and nuns disagree or because opinion polls of grassroots Catholics contradict official Church opinions.

I agree that there are some AG people who are warning against it, but I believe that to be fairly recent.

Uhm no. The prosperity theology is itself a fairly recent phenomenon in Pentecostalism. It has its roots in the healing revivals of the 1950s where healing evangelists began to make increasingly bolder promises of financial blessings in return for financial support of their ministries.

Formerly, many Pentecostals were advocates of the “poor dress gospel” (i.e. they were suspicious of materialism and conspicuous wealth). So, the fact that the official bodies of the AG rejects the materialism and conspicuous wealth that the prosperity theology represents is simply drawing on long held Pentecostal attitudes toward America’s consumer driven culture.

The AG and pentecostal movement gained it’s numbers by leaps and bounds through the Televangelists promoting that doctrine through the 70’s 80’s an 90’s

Yeah, televangelists (many AG ministers) were popular, but they were never without their critics. Many of those critics were and are Pentecostals. Furthermore, I don’t think you can simply attribute the AG’s growth to televangelists. The most prominent AG televangelists (the Bakers and Jimmy Swaggart) descended into notorious scandal and public shame. Yet, the AG’s growth continued undaunted.

 

[Nicea325]

This is something I been meaning to get out for a while.Almost like decade ago, my maternal grandmother who while baptized Catholic (never cared much for it beyond nominalist recognition) went to like a youth event that was going on in Pentecostal church that one my aunts went to.She said that during that event she saw some relevatory thing and it’s what made made her quit smoking cigarettes and convert to a fervent Pentecostal.

-_- With the unfortunate anti-Catholicism.Saying that saints and Marian veneration is idolatry,the Vatican is the new Babylon etc,etc stuff I’ve now commonly heard of.In the years following that me (for a short while before hitting 14-ish) and my dad in particular would get into very heated arguments.I think that my dad was involved with an evangelical group a long time ago when he was young (sometime in the 70’s-80’s my guess _) and it let him with a bad experience.I find it a bit funny that I delved more into the history of Catholicism and Christian philosophy in order to argue better with my grandmother

I don’t mean to offend anyone who is actually Pentecostal,has any relation to Pentecostalism,similar denominations or something to that effect.I’m sure that the sort of belief expressed and practised by my grandmother is not reflective of the majority of Pentecostals or the entire nature of the Pentecostal denomination.Yet it’s intrigued me…:ehh: as far as I’ve seen the sort of Pentecostalism that’s promoted to Hispanic ppl is ussally a “sensationalist” *evangelical form with an emphasis on exclusivism,the presence of demonic forces,the end of days and…”attention grabbing” stuff I guess you can say all the while easily bringing up stuff like the nominalism/lip service of those who are baptized Catholic,criticizing figures of saints and Marian veneration is,what’s the point of the Pope and a whole bunch of other deriding stuff.

Sometime after my grandma’s conversion when we went to Toronto to visit an uncle, my dad and him talked about this and he showed some proselytizing material including this one little like short movie.It showed fights or like rioting btw Catholics and Pentecostal with at one point a man crying,bleeding while on a crucifix.What creeped me out even more is how this was like an old Hispanic production from what seemed like btw the 60-mid 80’s ‘~’.

It makes me really wonder for how long this has been going on.It also makes me wonder if ppl from the originating country of the missionaries (like maybe the .U.S.) ever go and “check up/inspect” how those like congregations conduct themselves seeing as how I know that there are Pentecostals who don’t worship and think in such a way… :ehh: although part of me has a suspicion that they “allow it” in order to establish a stronger presence and diminish the presence of other denominations like the historical regional Catholicism.

Has anyone else seen similar things and/or would like to say something about it ?

*There have been times when my grandmother has gone to like 3 hr long s
services for instances.For the past 2-ish yrs though her like “fervency” has simmered down imo

Okay,but how many of those truly stick around their “new” faith/church? I know many reverts who come back, after they open their eyes and realize it is more than fellowship.