Pentecostalism

[R_C]

Hey, I don’t feel any need to sugar-coat ideas, either. Just saying that there are better ways to ask questions about other faiths

Sure, I am always for charity and true ecumenism, for Christians share a common faith and are called to unity and to be one flock with one shepherd.

But some facts are just facts: we do not call church any community that is not legitimately apostolic, and we term errors in doctrine as heresy (without however calling the followers of those doctrines heretics, unless they were Catholics first).

I do not mind particularly that one would feel offended that we speak of heresies in their doctrines, because there indeed are heresies, and by being told and feeling disturbed about it they may just be strong enough to step out of their comfort zone, take a good look at their doctrine, weigh our arguments on an objective balance, and realize that what we are saying may actually make some sense.

If I were Pentacostal, I would probably say, " we have no heresies".

And back in the days that’s what Arians, Nestorians, etc. probably said But we are better and more humble, aren’t we?

or some quality of Christan respect obviously. And so the perpetuation of name calling lives on.

We didn’t pick the name Pentecostals, did we? For us, there are Christians in full communion with the one visible Church and Christians not yet in full communion with the one visible Church. As I said, we term “church” a society that has as shepherds the legitimate successors of the apostles (thus the Catholic author of the original post correctly added quotes, though he may have politely spoken of ecclesial communities), and we do call heresy all errors that make a doctrine differ from orthodox, apostolic Christianity - that doesn’t mean that those who follow the doctrines are heretics, since they really don’t know any different than what they were told to be the truth.

First, Pentecostalism is not a “church;” it is a movement of churches and individuals.

Quod erat demonstrandum. The above post is from a user whose religion is marked as Pentecostal.

Real manafestations of the gifts, when seen, cannot be denied. fakes commit sin.

However, the Holy Spirit is not the only one that can allow people to do things that appear miraculous. In fact, as Catholics we are well aware throughout history of a very large amount of people who did not just display what appeared to be gifts of the Holy Spirit (such as the notorious gift of tongues) but who could do much more, such as heal, prophesy, speak and understand foreign languages, know things that were secret. However their fruits (mainly lack of humbleness, disobedience, and division) proved that their “manifestations” were spectacular indeed, but far from being the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[ltwin]

Quod erat demonstrandum. The above post is from a user whose religion is marked as Pentecostal.

Well, to be clear, I was not saying that Pentecostal churches are not really churches, as the OP seemed to imply with the quotation marks around the word (which is understandable since the Catholic Church would consider us “ecclesial communities”). All I was pointing out is that there is not one “Pentecostal Church.” There are Pentecostal churches.

This is an important point to make. Not all Pentecostal churches are uniform in faith and practice. There are commonalities obviously: Protestant, evangelical, distinctive beliefs in Spirit-baptism, speaking in tongues, and divine healing, etc. However, it is a large movement that has never been under one organizational umbrella, which makes it impossible to make generalizations.

We certainly consider ourselves part of the “ecclesia,” and, from our point of view, our churches are as much churches in the proper sense as the Catholic Church is.

 

[dmbuso]

I don’t think there are any more heresies with the pentecostal church then any other protestant group. They deny the sacrements, believe in sola scriptura and sola fida. That’s pretty much all protestantism

Aren’t all churches outside of the Catholic Church heretical? All of them have been started by a man and not Jesus.

 

[Reuben_J]

However, the Holy Spirit is not the only one that can allow people to do things that appear miraculous. In fact, as Catholics we are well aware throughout history of a very large amount of people who did not just display what appeared to be gifts of the Holy Spirit (such as the notorious gift of tongues) but who could do much more, such as heal, prophesy, speak and understand foreign languages, know things that were secret. However their fruits (mainly lack of humbleness, disobedience, and division) proved that their “manifestations” were spectacular indeed, but far from being the gift of the Holy Spirit.

While this may be true, the fruit may be more for the minstered than it is for the minister. One can be imbued with the charismatic gift and yet be lousy Christian. But if this gift is able to upbuild the church and lead people back to God, then one cannot deny the gift.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Aren’t all churches outside of the Catholic Church heretical? All of them have been started by a man and not Jesus.

Not as easy as that, Ecclesial community is a V-II term. The council applied a simple rule. The word was intended to indicate a different mode of being a church, as was insisted on by various protestant communities. However, this is not the same mode is which the Church’s of the great tradition of antiquity are Church’s, but is based on a new understanding, these consist not in the institution, but in the dynamism of the Word which gathers people.

The proper sense which defines the Church’s of antiquity is the presence of the sacraments though apostolic succession, and the Eucharist is dispensed by the bishops and priests.

Thus we know where the Church is as indicated by its marks.

However, the Truth itself declares: “So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed” (John 8:36). also acknowledged in antiquity of the Church, council of Orange comes to mind.

Peace

 

[JonNC]

=R_C;11057660]Sure, I am always for charity and true ecumenism, for Christians share a common faith and are called to unity and to be one flock with one shepherd.

Amen.

But some facts are just facts: we do not call church any community that is not legitimately apostolic, and we term errors in doctrine as heresy (without however calling the followers of those doctrines heretics, unless they were Catholics first).

That is the Catholic view.

I do not mind particularly that one would feel offended that we speak of heresies in their doctrines, because there indeed are heresies, and by being told and feeling disturbed about it they may just be strong enough to step out of their comfort zone, take a good look at their doctrine, weigh our arguments on an objective balance, and realize that what we are saying may actually make some sense.

Or, it simply turns off dialogue, and leaves a negative impression…

And back in the days that’s what Arians, Nestorians, etc. probably said But we are better and more humble, aren’t we?

That there have been heresies is of no doubt. I am not convinced that humans, today, are any more humble.

Jon

 

[KrazyKat]

Any church (religion) that worships The Lord Jesus Christ cannot be called heretical.

 

[Doxiemom]

Any church (religion) that worships The Lord Jesus Christ cannot be called heretical.

uh oh you is in trouble now

 

[Umbreon0]

First of all, Pentecostalism isn’t quite a Church, but rather a movement. There are some Pentecostal Churches or Parishes (Whatever they call it lol), though there are also Pentecostals within other Churches. For instance, there are Catholic-Pentecostals and Baptist-Pentecostals. The Pentecostal Movement focuses especially on spiritual gifts (most notably on speaking in tongues), which isn’t exactly heretical, unless you believe those were reserved just for the Early Church, which isn’t my belief, but whatever.

Now I’ll be focusing on the “Pentecostal Church,” the churches/parishes/whatever you see that are purely Pentecostal, and not another Church that just participates in the movement.

The Pentecostal Church is similar to most Protestant groups in their beliefs, they reject the Deutrocanon, they reject the Pope, they allow their “Priests” (I think they call them Pastors, though) to marry, they limit their sacraments down to just two of them, etc. What sets them apart from others, though, is their focus on spiritual gifts as I stated before, and that most of them only believe in immersion baptism, like Baptists do.

Not quite hearsay, but it is suspected by lots of people that the majority of the tongue-speaking is faked.

 

[cath4alltime]

Aren’t all churches outside of the Catholic Church heretical? All of them have been started by a man and not Jesus.

Well there is the Othodox Churches are they heretical to you because they are outside the Catholic Church?

 

[grannymh]

Charismatic Catholics are part of the Pentecostal Movement.

Charismatic Catholics normally belong to the Catholic Church. The correct name of the Catholic movement is the Catholic Charismatic Renewal.
nsc-chariscenter.org/index.asp

 

[KrazyKat]

Charismatic Catholics normally belong to the Catholic Church. The correct name of the Catholic movement is the Catholic Charismatic Renewal.
nsc-chariscenter.org/index.asp

It is still Pentecostal Power!! Amen.