I
InspiritCarol
Guest
[My Other Reply]
ShellyAquaintance- great stuff here. I need to break it up and address each point separately, if I may.
[S:*+*+* is “Shelly’s” statement and C: is mine.]
S:++You must not have been at the rallys my cousins like to go… Im not sure if I am proud (in a demented child of a cop sorta way) or embarassed by their long records of arrest for violent protests at LoveJoy in Portland all in the name of God. Im pretty sure her rosary wasn’t used much sadly. ++
C: Sometimes our passion causes us to work against ourselves. The means to attaining what we want need to be as considered and well thought out as that ultimate goal is for us.
S:++I am gonna be honest… I am split on this topic. While it never has been or would be a choice I would ever make on SO many levels I also have taken a friend in to have the precounceling done. (I was curious after hearing all the stories. How she did it was beyond me, in Ohio they do ultra sound, make you watch a video of the procedure etc than wait… 48 hours?.. I am not sure of other states laws.) I can say first hand in that case it is a falacy to think that she had no clue what she was doing… she did fully and I never felt they were presuring her EVER AT ALL in fact quite the opsite! ++
C: That sounds awesome. Wonder why that’s not the case everywhere? There is a still a problem, even when one does have ultrasound, the technology is very advanced and there is still quite a bit of conceptualization involved. With so much demand for techs due to the requirement of law in that state, I imagine they’re pretty much scraping the bottom of the barrel. In other words you can be shown a blob or a “squid” on the screen and be told “there’s your fetus; your blob of flesh; your resident alien invader. It could actually work against the notion of reassuring the mother that she has a baby inside her. If you had the fortitude to read my first part note to my former English Professor, you might have caught the story of my first pregnancy and “squiddy” aka Gabriel.
S: ++* I know federal law requires certian things, all I can say from that experience in that state that any woman there who claims she was pressured from the clinic is looking for an out to alliviate her own guilt. It was graphic and scaring in and of itself just to watch the video! (btw, I was anti abortion for myself prior to this no matter but it drove the point home.) ++*
C: Check out these examples that directly demonstrate some tactics used by PP to coerce girls into getting abortions. liveaction.org/rosaacuna . Even if one says: oh that’s just a couple of cases, the vast majority don’t encounter that; you’d have to turn that around regarding the reason for abortions. Most abortions are contraceptive, not remotely healthcare related, yet Roe-v-Wade was passed under the auspices of healthcare. So to say that healthcare should be made absolutely available due to a few needed abortion cases (which would have been able to get help before abortion-on-demand), then we have to say that healthcare oversight should absolutely be made available due to a few (though there are a lot more than a few) VERY disturbing cases. Why do we lack this? If women’s health really were the issue; we WOULD have safety measures in place.
S:++Oh… yes there were hurtled insults, it was a pathetic display of Christianity if I ever saw one. ++
C: They hurt us all. Did you see this directly, or was it on the news?
S:++THAT being said, my delemia comes into this… its gonna happen no matter what. The mid centry in this country should prove that, a LOT of women died having it done illigally and in a way that is not controlled and even more henious and pressureful than anything Planned Parenthood could dish up in todays world. ++
C: I think we can’t project onto today’s society what has gone before. For one thing, we have a society that is generally disposed toward helping a crisis mother; rather than condemning her. Moreover, we have people moving into that sacred ground of proposing much, much stronger litigation to force the “sperm donor” into being completely 100% culpable in such circumstances. Can you imagine what it would be like if men didn’t get to use us (women) and throw us away?
S: ++* So who’s life is worth more? The mother or the child? ++*
C: The answer is a clear and definite: how the heck could we EVER answer that? Maybe the baby in question will find the cure for cancer. Who knows? So, not KNOWING the answer, we have to say both lives, being human, hold equal weight and equal merit.
S:++Also we have the issue of our foster systems etc. Drug babies are rampant and seen in a way never before thanks to the devistating effects of meth, etc… and there is as whole sector of our society that no one wants to talk about or help that is strained to the gills trying to do anything even remotely suitable for these children… is that a life or fair to that child? Im sick to death of crackhead mothers to be honest, I’m sick to death of getting calls in the middle of the night from my friends who deal with these high risk foster kids asking what I have for a 4 year old little girl because she has nothing except the excrimint that is covering her body. ++
C: And abortion on demand has done absolutely nothing to help this situation. In fact, it can be argued that it stems from the same depraved source (that would require another 6 posts for me to effectively make that one).
[continued…]
ShellyAquaintance- great stuff here. I need to break it up and address each point separately, if I may.
[S:*+*+* is “Shelly’s” statement and C: is mine.]
S:++You must not have been at the rallys my cousins like to go… Im not sure if I am proud (in a demented child of a cop sorta way) or embarassed by their long records of arrest for violent protests at LoveJoy in Portland all in the name of God. Im pretty sure her rosary wasn’t used much sadly. ++
C: Sometimes our passion causes us to work against ourselves. The means to attaining what we want need to be as considered and well thought out as that ultimate goal is for us.
S:++I am gonna be honest… I am split on this topic. While it never has been or would be a choice I would ever make on SO many levels I also have taken a friend in to have the precounceling done. (I was curious after hearing all the stories. How she did it was beyond me, in Ohio they do ultra sound, make you watch a video of the procedure etc than wait… 48 hours?.. I am not sure of other states laws.) I can say first hand in that case it is a falacy to think that she had no clue what she was doing… she did fully and I never felt they were presuring her EVER AT ALL in fact quite the opsite! ++
C: That sounds awesome. Wonder why that’s not the case everywhere? There is a still a problem, even when one does have ultrasound, the technology is very advanced and there is still quite a bit of conceptualization involved. With so much demand for techs due to the requirement of law in that state, I imagine they’re pretty much scraping the bottom of the barrel. In other words you can be shown a blob or a “squid” on the screen and be told “there’s your fetus; your blob of flesh; your resident alien invader. It could actually work against the notion of reassuring the mother that she has a baby inside her. If you had the fortitude to read my first part note to my former English Professor, you might have caught the story of my first pregnancy and “squiddy” aka Gabriel.
S: ++* I know federal law requires certian things, all I can say from that experience in that state that any woman there who claims she was pressured from the clinic is looking for an out to alliviate her own guilt. It was graphic and scaring in and of itself just to watch the video! (btw, I was anti abortion for myself prior to this no matter but it drove the point home.) ++*
C: Check out these examples that directly demonstrate some tactics used by PP to coerce girls into getting abortions. liveaction.org/rosaacuna . Even if one says: oh that’s just a couple of cases, the vast majority don’t encounter that; you’d have to turn that around regarding the reason for abortions. Most abortions are contraceptive, not remotely healthcare related, yet Roe-v-Wade was passed under the auspices of healthcare. So to say that healthcare should be made absolutely available due to a few needed abortion cases (which would have been able to get help before abortion-on-demand), then we have to say that healthcare oversight should absolutely be made available due to a few (though there are a lot more than a few) VERY disturbing cases. Why do we lack this? If women’s health really were the issue; we WOULD have safety measures in place.
S:++Oh… yes there were hurtled insults, it was a pathetic display of Christianity if I ever saw one. ++
C: They hurt us all. Did you see this directly, or was it on the news?
S:++THAT being said, my delemia comes into this… its gonna happen no matter what. The mid centry in this country should prove that, a LOT of women died having it done illigally and in a way that is not controlled and even more henious and pressureful than anything Planned Parenthood could dish up in todays world. ++
C: I think we can’t project onto today’s society what has gone before. For one thing, we have a society that is generally disposed toward helping a crisis mother; rather than condemning her. Moreover, we have people moving into that sacred ground of proposing much, much stronger litigation to force the “sperm donor” into being completely 100% culpable in such circumstances. Can you imagine what it would be like if men didn’t get to use us (women) and throw us away?
S: ++* So who’s life is worth more? The mother or the child? ++*
C: The answer is a clear and definite: how the heck could we EVER answer that? Maybe the baby in question will find the cure for cancer. Who knows? So, not KNOWING the answer, we have to say both lives, being human, hold equal weight and equal merit.
S:++Also we have the issue of our foster systems etc. Drug babies are rampant and seen in a way never before thanks to the devistating effects of meth, etc… and there is as whole sector of our society that no one wants to talk about or help that is strained to the gills trying to do anything even remotely suitable for these children… is that a life or fair to that child? Im sick to death of crackhead mothers to be honest, I’m sick to death of getting calls in the middle of the night from my friends who deal with these high risk foster kids asking what I have for a 4 year old little girl because she has nothing except the excrimint that is covering her body. ++
C: And abortion on demand has done absolutely nothing to help this situation. In fact, it can be argued that it stems from the same depraved source (that would require another 6 posts for me to effectively make that one).
[continued…]
