People in Heaven can't pray?!?!?

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Hello! I am currently involved in a weekly discussion with my mother-in-law (I know, that’s dangerous) regarding the differences between Catholicism and Protestants. (She is from the Christian Reformed Church). I was trying to explain why we ask for the intercession of saints and for those in Heaven to pray for us. She could not understand where we get this from the Bible and she also said that people in heaven don’t have the ability to pray! I have to admit that I was at a loss for words and I don’t know how to explain this belief of ours if she doesn’t even think that anyone in Heaven can pray. Anybody have any thoughts?
 
I have never heard this. It simply doesn’t seem to make any sense. Isn’t the idea of Heaven being in the presence of God? I’s assume that means in communication with Him too.
 
"*she also said that people in heaven don’t have the ability to pray! * "

Since she has made the assertion, she should be able to prove to someplace in Scripture where it teaches this. At this point, the onus is on her to show you a prohibition against it. Just because she cannot find an explicit teaching for this, doesn’t mean there’s a prohibition on it.

There are many good arguments in favor of the teaching (see catholic.com/library/Praying_to_the_Saints.asp), but this is where you should start.
 
I was under the impression they can pray for us but they can’t pray for themselves (I don’t think they’d have to), or the souls in purgatory.

Heck…Mary prays for us all the time. I would imagine the saints do as well.

I thought we prayed for the souls in purgatory to help them reach God sooner than later, and once they get to heaven with the saints they, in turn, pray for us.

Isn’t that the way the circle flows?? :hmmm:
 
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j9house:
Hello! I am currently involved in a weekly discussion with my mother-in-law (I know, that’s dangerous) regarding the differences between Catholicism and Protestants. (She is from the Christian Reformed Church). I was trying to explain why we ask for the intercession of saints and for those in Heaven to pray for us. She could not understand where we get this from the Bible and she also said that people in heaven don’t have the ability to pray! I have to admit that I was at a loss for words and I don’t know how to explain this belief of ours if she doesn’t even think that anyone in Heaven can pray. Anybody have any thoughts?
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Ask her if she has ever read Revelation …where it talks about the ‘prayers of the saints’.

SV
 
Ask her if she ever prays for you. If so, will she stop praying for you when she gets to heaven?

JimG
 
Get a hold of Patrick Madrid’s book Any Friend of God is a Friend of Mine. This is quick and simple explanation of the communion of saints and should help you explain things to your mother-in-law. If you can get her to read it, that’s even better.
 
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j9house:
Hello! I am currently involved in a weekly discussion with my mother-in-law (I know, that’s dangerous) regarding the differences between Catholicism and Protestants. (She is from the Christian Reformed Church). I was trying to explain why we ask for the intercession of saints and for those in Heaven to pray for us. She could not understand where we get this from the Bible and she also said that people in heaven don’t have the ability to pray! I have to admit that I was at a loss for words and I don’t know how to explain this belief of ours if she doesn’t even think that anyone in Heaven can pray. Anybody have any thoughts?
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This is the first time I’ve heard of such teaching, that those in heaven cannot pray. It is unscriptural to say the least, and bizarre. The fact that people in heaven enjoy the beatific vision would mean that they would be far more inspired to pray more fervently for those still on earth, so that those on earth would after death, eventually join them in the enjoyment of eternal bliss.
 
In the parable of the rich man and poor Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31, the dead rich man from his place of torment asked Abraham to help his living brothers. If the people in hell can intercede for the living, by what logic can we deny that the people in heaven can intercede for the living?.

In 2 Maccabees 15:12-14, in a vision worthy of belief, the dead priest Onias and dead prophet Jeremiah were seen fervently praying for the whole Jewish community.
 
Thank you for the responses. I will certainly use these to plead my case! To further explain her position, she stated that once a person gets to heaven, they have to contact or communication with the earthly world. She says that we are fully in God’s presence and we will have no knowledge of what is happening on earth, and therefor would not be able to “hear” anyone asking for prayers.

Also, does anyone know of Bible verses that mention the intercession of saints?
 
In regards to the idea that people in Heaven have no knowledge of what goes on on earth, see Revelation 6:9-11
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slaughtered for the word of God and for the testimony they had given; they cried out with a loud voice, “Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long will it be before you judge and avenge our blood on the inhabitants of the earth?” They were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number would be complete both of their fellow servants and of their brothers and sisters, who were soon to be killed as they themselves had been killed.
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These verses show that those in Heaven do know what is going on on earth. The martyrs knew from their own observation that the Lord had not yet avenged their blood, otherwise they would not be asking. They also knew from what God revealed to them that their brothers and sisters on earth would soon be killed. This shows quite a bit of knowledge about events on earth.
 
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j9house:
Hello! I am currently involved in a weekly discussion with my mother-in-law (I know, that’s dangerous) regarding the differences between Catholicism and Protestants. (She is from the Christian Reformed Church). I was trying to explain why we ask for the intercession of saints and for those in Heaven to pray for us. She could not understand where we get this from the Bible and she also said that people in heaven don’t have the ability to pray! I have to admit that I was at a loss for words and I don’t know how to explain this belief of ours if she doesn’t even think that anyone in Heaven can pray. Anybody have any thoughts?
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Ask her where in the bible it says that people in Heaven do not have the ability to pray. How does she know that.

So, she thinks God allows people into Heaven which is supposed to be perfect and even greater than we can imagine, yet those who go there do not have the ability to pray?
 
just as paul asked fellow believers (saints) to pray for him(rom15:30; col4:3;1 thess5:25;eph6:18-19;2thess3:1),now we can asked paul and the other saints in heaven to pray for us. we are not cut off from each other at death,rather we are bought closer through the communion we share in christ. :blessyou:
 
There are verses that are clear that we are to pray for one another. I don’t think she is diputing that. Her problem is that she thinks once one dies, that is the end of prayers. Besides the one verses about the dead man asking on behalf of his family, and the saints crying out for justice, try these also.

Mk 12:26-27 he is God of the living, not of the dead

Mk 9:4 Jesus seen conversing with Elijah and Moses

Tobit 12:12 angel presents Tobit and Sarah’s prayer to God

I have had the best response from the verses about God being the God of the living. For Example: " We believe when we die in God’s Grace, we will not be dead but alive in Christ. In fact, we will be closer to Christ than ever before. We see that the saints DO know what is going on on the earth,(crying for justice) and we see that those who have died are worried about those who are still living (dead man asking for those relatives still alive). We are called to pray for one another. Do the rules suddenly change when we die, or will we perfected and wish to do more fervently that which God has called us to do?"

God Bless
 
we know that angels and saints place the prayers of the holy ones at god’s feet(tob12:12;rev8:3-4), supporting those prayers with their intercession. the angels and saints in heaven will intercede for us before the throne of god if they are petitioned in prayers. madre querida acogeme en tu regazo… :blessyou:
 
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j9house:
To further explain her position, she stated that once a person gets to heaven, they have to contact or communication with the earthly world. She says that we are fully in God’s presence and we will have no knowledge of what is happening on earth, and therefor would not be able to “hear” anyone asking for prayers.

Also, does anyone know of Bible verses that mention the intercession of saints?
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I believe your MIL’s position is Protestant “dogma.” Try this:
And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints; (Rev. 5:8).

Do some homework, because it is these “saints” are the suffering saints on earth. But even so, prayers are being offered for people on earth by the residents of Heaven.

Why does your MIL believe that the Saints cannot hear the prayers of us on earth? Are they not more alive than we are? Are they not more perfect in charity than we are?
 
Thanks Sarah Jane,

I never really unstood the “cloud of witness” verse before. Thank you.

Maria
 
It might help to think first about what “prayer” truly is. Quoting St. John Damascene, the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that “prayer is the raising of one’s mind and heart to God.” The CCC also says: “According to Scripture, it is the heart that prays. If our heart is far from God, the words of prayer are in vain.”

Consider now that the soul in Heaven is with God, not in the way we think of “with” here on earth (“in the company of”, or “next to”) but in the sense of being united to God. Their prayer, communion with God, is to a degree impossible for us on earth. Prayer on earth strives for communion with God. To be in Heaven is union with God, the beatific vision, the beholding of God.

The life of a soul in Heaven is in other words “prayer.” Therefore, not only do those in Heaven do it; they live it. Their very being cries out, “Holy, Holy, Holy.” That reverberates through all creation, glorifying God and blessing us on earth. We strive in this life to be attuned to receive such blessing.
 
Why does your MIL believe that the Saints cannot hear the prayers of us on earth? Are they not more alive than we are? Are they not more perfect in charity than we are?

She really could not explain her position well, but she was adament that there is no communication between the souls in Heaven and the people on Earth. Yes, she agrees they are “alive”, but not in the sense that they would be able to “hear” someone talking to them from Earth. Also, she stated to usual protestant belief that you only need to take your prayers to God, not to anyone else.
 
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