People Misusing Reconciliation

[englishredrose]

people who want a 3 minute bang bang and out really do not understand the delecate nature of human sin. The 3 minute or less bang bang and out, how can you really be sorry to God in that time. Not forgetting that the confessional is about God and forgiveness. You don’t get to the underlining issues of the sin and really deal with it which of course you can do with the right help and advice of the way forward, that is of course you want to understand that sin. By understanding that sin will help you not to keep on committing it. We will never be perfect but we can understand ourselves and work out how and why we go wrong. 3 minute confessions aren’t for those who want to grow with God and learn to trust and love him is my humble opinon. In all of my Anglican Confessions over the last twenty five years I think they just about all been about twenty minutes long,(from enterring to leaving) with only one being a little shorter because it was just before a Mass. But all the others were and neither of us looking at any watch in between time even when the chuch clock.
Certainly I don’t believe how one can really expect to be sorry with God in a space of 3 minutes with a priest present if they are being whole with God.What is the point of bang bang and out. You don’t need to go in the first place with that kind of attitude in reality. Confessional is a way of spiritual growth along with abosultion though if all you care about is the absolution then… so be it I guess

 

[nicolakirwan]

There’s much to be said for preparing oneself before entering the confessional. Confessions can be relatively short if the “spiritual legwork” has been done beforehand and afterward. There is an examination of conscience, and also if one takes an extended period of time before going to the confessional, one has time to reflect before God, be sorrowful for one’s sins and consider the spiritual consequence of them.

I treat Reconciliation as the conclusion of a process that begins perhaps even days before going. A process of prayer and reflection on ways in which my heart and mind are not aligned with God. There’s the penance afterward as well; but I don’t think that spending a short amount of time in the confessional means that one is not deeply contrite or has not thought deeply enough about their sin.

 

[Gorgias]

This is why they became priests: to counsel spiritually. Part of that counsel is in the confessional, regarding sin, temptation, efforts to resist, and efforts to harness faith in the difficult process of resisting sin.

This is very true, but it doesn’t imply that the confessional should become a pastoral counseling session (i.e., a 30-minute session of listening to a person’s problems, exploring their issues, and providing an ‘answer’ about what they should do to move forward in their life).

God has the complete and detailed list, way better than any of us can remember, down to the moment.

It’s the recognizable level of contrition and understanding which has moved me: NOT “the list”!

So, God knows the list of our sins, but He doesn’t know our contrition unless we spend a long time in the confessional, pouring out our hearts to the priest?

If I, fallen and insufficient as I am, can have such an automatic response, how much more abundant and instant do you think God’s response is, to us, when we tell Him how much we have thought about the effect of our sins.

“Thought”, not “recounted in the confessional”. Priests are trained to look for signs of contrition; this may be as little as the person’s presence in the confessional. Although you might feel better, having poured out your heart, confessing not only your sins but your sense of contrition, it isn’t necessary (for the sake of the sacrament).

Again, just my experience: Priests have told me how much they value thoughtfulness in the confessional and how little they value “lists.”

This makes sense; however, ‘thoughtfulness’ doesn’t necessarily mean ‘verbosity’, does it?

Ya’ll are right – we don’t know if what’s going on in the OP’s repeated experience of 30+ minute confessions – but we do have a good sense that something seems ‘off’, here. The best suggestion seems to be to make a particular appointment with that priest for confession during the week. Then, after experiencing his style in the sacrament (which, likely, will give the OP insight into why he takes so long), the OP might consider mentioning that the majority of people who come to confession before Mass have been being turned away, and asking if there’s anything that the priest might be able to do to make the sacrament available to a greater number of the people who are clamoring for it…

 

[Elizabeth502]

Both posts 61 and 62 have truth in them, in this regard :

It is doubtful that a confession opportunity will be meaningful if time is the orienting focus, on the part either of the penitent or the confessor. When we are focused on time, we are focused on the future, not the present. It is both a philosophical and a theological truism that God works with us only in the present. That means awareness, right now, while time stands still and we’re not time-anxious or time-focused, of God’s action in us. In no other way can we be fully receptive to the sacrament.

It would also, again, be insulting if this were to occur on a human level. It boggles my mind to see how few Catholics understand that sacraments are intimate encounters within an intimate relationship, even more intimate than marriage itself. God is deeper within us and to us than any human being. If you don’t understand that, then you’ve missed the entire point of Chrstianity (and Judaism). If my contrite friend was “looking” (mentally) at his watch while reciting his offenses against me, more focused on his next appointment than being open to me without restriction, our relationship would not benefit. God is a Person, three in fact. Jesus is forgiving us in the confessional, not some abstract, remote supernatural CPA with a timer. Either confession advances that relationship or it does not. In order for it to advance, it requires work on our part, just like any great marriage requires work and any sustained friendship. Work, honesty, reflection, disclosure, sharing, intimacy, and respect – not to mention gratitude for that relationship.

That said, poster in post #62 is correct in that confession is the end of a process. (And how, for me. ) Sometimes it takes me 2 weeks of introspection, prayer, reading, and visiting the Blessed Sacrament to be sufficiently prepared. I do agree that more work, quantitatively & qualitatively, is in the preparation than inside the confessional. However, you still make the mistake of assuming that because of that, the last phase will be immediate and brief.

I will speak for myself in that rarely has that been so: in fact, exactly once was it so: the confessor was someone I was acquainted with, it happened in that case to be face-to-face, and he is an unusually intuitive & Christ-filled guy who seemed to “know” (anticipate) my sins as I was reciting them. The grace moment for me was profound, and the confession brief, but again, that is not typical. Typically my confession --regardless of the thoroughness of my preparation–takes about 20 minutes. Perhaps one of the reasons (again) is that I refuse to confess to priests who are “list”-oriented. Like me, like englishredrose, these confessors are root-cause oriented: Why have I done what I did? Why do I persist in doing some of these things? What does that behavior indicate about my attitudes toward self, others, God? Which Capital Sins (the motivators) are these indicative of? How do I work on those root causes so that I will not be an instrument of evil? Much of our sin is the product of non-conscious living & behaving. Confession is the opportunity, yes, to prepare, but also to listen, and thus become conscious.

 

[englishredrose]

How is confession an end process if you are truelly sorry not to do that sin again?

 

[Elizabeth502]

How is confession an end process if you are truelly sorry not to do that sin again?

You may misunderstand the poster. Post #62 discusses the end phase of a process of examination and contrition, i.m.o. I use a process/journey myself, as probably you do, and all sincere penitents do. (Hopefully!)

The post is not about some terminal point, but rather a completion of a series of events, all with the “end purpose” of confessing, that’s all. Indeed, confession is both an “end” (in that sense) and always a genuine beginning (re-start). At least, that’s they way I understood the poster.

I must say, though, I have never gone to Confession with my children present in the pews. I could never do that & could never imagine doing that. It would be far too distracting. Not only would I feel rushed & anxious, my attention would definitely be divided. I have always made sure that they were being cared for by a responsible adult off-site (at home, at school, elsewhere). Confession is a time exclusively for the penitent and Jesus, and the priest who is His instrument. It’s not a multi-tasking opportunity.

 

[babochka]

I must say, though, I have never gone to Confession with my children present in the pews. I could never do that & could never imagine doing that. It would be far too distracting. Not only would I feel rushed & anxious, my attention would definitely be divided. I have always made sure that they were being cared for by a responsible adult off-site (at home, at school, elsewhere). Confession is a time exclusively for the penitent and Jesus, and the priest who is His instrument. It’s not a multi-tasking opportunity.

Well, it certainly isn’t my preference, but it has happened.

In my parish, Confessions are scheduled for immediately prior to the Divine Liturgy, so if I go at a scheduled time, my kids are going to be there. Usually, my husband is around to watch them, but it has happened on rare occasions, most recently last week, that I was at the church with my children and so was Father. We both had some time available, which is rare, so I seized the opportunity to ask for confession. In spite of the limitations, it was one of the most helpful confessions I’ve made in a long time. Sometimes, we’ve just got to do what we can, and a homeschooling mother of young kids doesn’t get a lot of time when the kids aren’t around.

 

[Elizabeth502]

^ I understand. Just personally, I wouldn’t do it on any regular basis, given that each penittent deserves and needs that alone & undistracted time whenever possible Glad it has worked out for you.

 

[JimG]

people who want a 3 minute bang bang and out really do not understand the delecate nature of human sin. The 3 minute or less bang bang and out, how can you really be sorry to God in that time. Not forgetting that the confessional is about God and forgiveness. You don’t get to the underlining issues of the sin and really deal with it which of course you can do with the right help and advice of the way forward, that is of course you want to understand that sin. By understanding that sin will help you not to keep on committing it. We will never be perfect but we can understand ourselves and work out how and why we go wrong. 3 minute confessions aren’t for those who want to grow with God and learn to trust and love him is my humble opinon. In all of my Anglican Confessions over the last twenty five years I think they just about all been about twenty minutes long,(from enterring to leaving) with only one being a little shorter because it was just before a Mass. But all the others were and neither of us looking at any watch in between time even when the chuch clock.
Certainly I don’t believe how one can really expect to be sorry with God in a space of 3 minutes with a priest present if they are being whole with God.What is the point of bang bang and out. You don’t need to go in the first place with that kind of attitude in reality. Confessional is a way of spiritual growth along with abosultion though if all you care about is the absolution then… so be it I guess

One needs to be sorry for the sin before walking into the confessional. It need not take three minutes of time in the confessional or reconciliation room to work up sorrow for sin!

It takes as long as it takes. Or as short as it takes. Just as we can’t make a personal judgment about someone who takes half an hour or more for confession, neither can we make a personal judgment about someone who takes two minutes. As far as anyone else knows, they are sorry for their sins, and want to be forgiven. The fact that they tell their sins quickly is no indication of their spiritual state.

I’ve mentioned before that in my parish the average confession time is probably less than three minutes, perhaps even two minutes—at least during regular confession times. I’ve been in church before the weekday evening Mass, and noticed the confessional line with 10 to 15 people in it, and usually all are heard in the space of the 30 minutes before Mass which is allotted.

When I’ve gone to confession myself before Mass, the priest normally asks me to say my act of contrition in the pew along with my penance. I’m sure he does this to try to make sure that everyone’s confession is heard, and I presume that he tells others the same thing. That may be one reason the line moves quickly. But I’ve never felt rushed, and the priest never rushes me.

Call it a list if you like, but it really doesn’t take long for me to tell my sins. I know what they are and just state them.

Forgive me for thinking about the numbers. If those 15 people in line at my parish finish before Mass, that’s an average of two minutes each. If each of those persons took just 5 minutes each, the same line of people would take 75 minutes to finish. If they take 10 minutes each, it would take 2 ½ hours. Supposing that the priest came back to the confessional after Mass to hear the remainder, he would miss dinner and all his evening appointments. It’s a busy parish and the priests are not idle for long.

Let’s think about the rest of the sacraments, as far as reception goes. Mass is an hour but receiving communion takes a few seconds.

Baptism takes maybe five or ten minutes; the actual words and action of baptism take less than a minute.

Confirmation is usually a big ceremony, but it only takes seconds for the bishop to seal your forhhead with oil while saying “Be sealed with the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

Marriage takes months of preparation, but the sacramental vows take a few minutes.

Ordination takes a few minutes with the laying on of hands, though surrounded with ceremony. It could be done in minutes if necessary.

Anointing takes less than two or three minutes.

The sacraments, including reconciliation, are outward signs which effect the grace which they signify. They don’t have to take a lot of time to be effective. That’s the nice thing about sacraments: they work, and they don’t depend for their effectiveness on our personal feelings or how much time we take.

So I won’t complain about lengthy confessions as long as nobody complains about short confessions either!

 

[Elizabeth502]

So I won’t complain about lengthy confessions as long as nobody complains about short confessions either!

Deal!

I have no problem with people who choose to be quick. I only have a problem with any assumptions about who is not quick, and why.

 

[englishredrose]

I have no idea the average length of confession time as regards others because all ours are done private appointment being Anglican and no fixed session. Even if there was, I wouldn’t have used it as didn’t when there has been occaisional ones. I’ve always booked them. I don’t even know who else actually goes. Though I only know one who does and only know two who claim they don’t. So for the average Anglican confession - I can only say about how long I have been in and out of church in and sometimes that has included chat after the confession. So I don’t have a problem with assessing length of times of other penitants because I am never held or by them or anything. But Reconciliation to me isn’t about being in grace to receive communion though may be to other Anglicans who use confession, I do not know since none of us know who uses it or not. All I know for me, it is about being sorry to God about those sins that are troubling me in some way if they have been drawn to my mind in some way and need that extra that not going to confession with them don’t do. I have tried the idea of not going to confession and get drawn to it in the end. But for me it is about being sorry in itself rather than any communion things and that be one of my issues that would block me enterring the Roman Catholic Faith because of - of the idea one has to, to receive communion if following it through at that level. I couldn’t be so strict with faith. Faith is about belief to me and not about rules but luckily we are all different.

 

[JimG]

I have no idea the average length of confession time as regards others because all ours are done private appointment being Anglican and no fixed session. Even if there was, I wouldn’t have used it as didn’t when there has been occaisional ones. I’ve always booked them. I don’t even know who else actually goes. Though I only know one who does and only know two who claim they don’t. So for the average Anglican confession - I can only say about how long I have been in and out of church in and sometimes that has included chat after the confession. So I don’t have a problem with assessing length of times of other penitants because I am never held or by them or anything. But Reconciliation to me isn’t about being in grace to receive communion though may be to other Anglicans who use confession, I do not know since none of us know who uses it or not. All I know for me, it is about being sorry to God about those sins that are troubling me in some way if they have been drawn to my mind in some way and need that extra that not going to confession with them don’t do. I have tried the idea of not going to confession and get drawn to it in the end. But for me it is about being sorry in itself rather than any communion things and that be one of my issues that would block me enterring the Roman Catholic Faith because of - of the idea one has to, to receive communion if following it through at that level. I couldn’t be so strict with faith. Faith is about belief to me and not about rules but luckily we are all different.

Sorry, I neglected to take into account that you were writing from an Anglican viewpoint. My comments were directed more toward the Catholic view of confession—as a sacrament which does what it signifies. I’m sure that the Anglican view and practice is different, so my reply cannot really be directed towards Anglican practice. As you say, we are all different. I’m not quite sure what you mean by “the idea one has to receive communion if following it through at that level.” For Catholics, confession and absolution of mortal sins is needed before receiving communion. There is no mandate to confess lesser sins, though it is a good practice. It’s not so much a matter of being strict as trying to be right with God before receiving him in the Eucharist.

 

[Elizabeth502]

The only problem, Jim, is that the “necessity” motive for Confession is only one dimension of it. Millions of Catholics before us and millions of Catholics currently benefit from the sacrament as prevention against falling into mortal sin and as remedy against entrenched venial sins. For them it’s not “needed before receiving Communion.”

And venial or mortal, all sin generates from the Capital Sins which tend to keep us in a perpetual state of Me-First, which limits our communion with God and neighbor. It is very easy to become complacent when we don’t visit the sacrament frequently, and just do so out of “necessity.” We constantly need the mercy of God, all of us. Confession cleanses, and when done thoughtfully it cleanses deeply.

If one’s notion of sin is discrete categories and particular acts, then many may “need” to go to confession, from a legalistic point of view, rarely. And then frankly they’re going to benefit rarely from what is uniquely available in this sacrament: the grace of self-knowledge, the grace which comes from pained disclosure, the grace of forgiveness from the multiple ways we put ourselves inappropriately or blindly first – and limit ourselves from being vessels of God.

The Saints went to confession often. That’s one reason they were able to live such holy lives.

The Eucharst is power. So is Penance, in a very different way. Together, they help keep us out of serious sin and prevent that “necessity.” The Church doesn’t tell us to visit the sacrament, singular, frequently, but the sacraments plural. She means both.

 

[JimG]

The only problem, Jim, is that the “necessity” motive for Confession is only one dimension of it. Millions of Catholics before us and millions of Catholics currently benefit from the sacrament as prevention against falling into mortal sin and as remedy against entrenched venial sins. For them it’s not “needed before receiving Communion.”

And venial or mortal, all sin generates from the Capital Sins which tend to keep us in a perpetual state of Me-First, which limits our communion with God and neighbor. It is very easy to become complacent when we don’t visit the sacrament frequently, and just do so out of “necessity.” We constantly need the mercy of God, all of us. Confession cleanses, and when done thoughtfully it cleanses deeply.

If one’s notion of sin is discrete categories and particular acts, then many may “need” to go to confession, from a legalistic point of view, rarely. And then frankly they’re going to benefit rarely from what is uniquely available in this sacrament: the grace of self-knowledge, the grace which comes from pained disclosure, the grace of forgiveness from the multiple ways we put ourselves inappropriately or blindly first – and limit ourselves from being vessels of God.

The Saints went to confession often. That’s one reason they were able to live such holy lives.

The Eucharst is power. So is Penance, in a very different way. Together, they help keep us out of serious sin and prevent that “necessity.” The Church doesn’t tell us to visit the sacrament, singular, frequently, but the sacraments plural. She means both.

I don’t really disagree with anything you say. I’m old enough to remember when my family went to confession every Saturday, even though the younger kids had no experience of sin that might be called mortal. That was a common practice. No one stayed away from confession merely because they had no mortal sins to confess. Those lines were long then too.

Moral theology does classify sin according to discrete categories and particular acts, though of course root causes go deeper. We do receive absolution of sins through the sacrament, but the sacramental graces of confession, as you note, go deeper, and are a preventive and inoculation as well. The sacraments are means of grace leading to sanctification.

I agree frequent confession is needed, and I’ve heard more sermons stating that lately. Of course, if most Catholics heed that advice, that will likely raise more concerns about the availability of confession, and inevitably, the time it takes to hear everyone’s confession!

We used to distinguish between ‘necessary’ confession, and ‘devotional’ confession, but it’s not particularly useful since the sacrament is used both for absolution and an increase in the virtues needed to avoid sin.

Still there are a lot of Catholics. Not all of them are in the same place spiritually. Yet all of them need this sacrament, however developed or undeveloped their spiritual life may be. It is a sacrament for everyone. I just want to avoid making it a sacrament only for the spiritually mature.

 

[pnewton]

There are not easy answers. I too get irked by long confessions, but I know that is my problem. I would never impose on others with such a thing, though. I think it is worth letting the priest know it is getting over the top. Yes, he is there to minister, but not just to one person. He sure wouldn’t take all of Mass to give communiont to only one at the expense of others.

If it became a regular issue, I would change confessors just to get out of a frustrating situation. I have done this for a while.

 

[Boy_Wonder]

Our parish has reconciliation every Saturday from 4-5. I’ve attempted to go to confession for 3 weeks now and have found it impossible to go because there are several parishioners who take 45 min to an hour to confess. The past 3 Saturdays 2 people have been able to go to confession in the allotted hour. This past Saturday I showed up 10 min before 4 and still found it impossible to go because the person in front of me took the entire hour.

Assuming these folks aren’t just discussing the weather, they must have some serious emotional issues and need counseling. I am glad they are seeking help, but more than a little peeved they are not seeking out the proper venue. Am I out of line for wanting these people to be brief and a little more considerate? Should I ask the priest to handle them? Should I ask them to let me cut? I take no more than 2 minutes so it wouldn’t kill them to let me go first.

That’s annoying and rude. Make an appointment to see the priest for confession outside of the ordinary time. Or get there very early and in line in front of the people who are in there forever. Or just go to confession at a different parish.

 

[Boy_Wonder]

some people see confession as a time to dump and seek sympathy rather than confess their sins. they focus on what others have done to them rather than on what sins they have committed. that is a misuse of the sacrament.

those who spend a long time in there in order to receive spiritual direction are better off making an appointment out side of the normal hours so others can avail themselves as well.

i try to go every 2-3 weeks and rarely spend more than 3-5 minutes in there.

 

[JimG]

some people see confession as a time to dump and seek sympathy rather than confess their sins. they focus on what others have done to them rather than on what sins they have committed. that is a misuse of the sacrament.

those who spend a long time in there in order to receive spiritual direction are better off making an appointment out side of the normal hours so others can avail themselves as well.

i try to go every 2-3 weeks and rarely spend more than 3-5 minutes in there.

As has already been noted in this thread, we can’t know the mind of any other person, nor can we know the reasons for a lengthy confession. We’ll just have to be patient with each other. If the priest thinks confessions are taking too long, he can give advice about that. But we can’t.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

If I know my Confession is going to take an exceptional amount of time, I make an appointment. I would hope that others would make the same consideration, but sometimes you really don’t know that it’s going to go longer than you’re expecting. Our parish offers Confession for 30 minutes once per month. I take at least a couple of the kids if not the whole family each time. I’ll admit that I typically seek a bit of counsel and guidance when I go, but I’m always aware of the time and how many others are waiting. I usually don’t have much to confess, but if it’s more than usual I’ll speak a bit more quickly. For the most part, I’m usually not in there more than 6-7 minutes, but there have been times that it’s taken 15-25 minutes. The bulk of the extra length stemmed from the priest’s questions and advice. Thankfully, on each of these occasions, I was either the last or only person in there.

While I’d hate for anyone to assume that I was using the confessional for anything other than Confession, I know it does happen occasionally. I nearly missed out one time at a neighboring parish because the lady in front of me took some time afterward to talk to the priest about the menu and invitations for an upcoming parish dinner. Thankfully her friend, who was also waiting, knew this was going on and she interrupted them so we could get our Confessions in.

 

[JimG]

If I know my Confession is going to take an exceptional amount of time, I make an appointment. I would hope that others would make the same consideration, but sometimes you really don’t know that it’s going to go longer than you’re expecting. Our parish offers Confession for 30 minutes once per month. I take at least a couple of the kids if not the whole family each time. I’ll admit that I typically seek a bit of counsel and guidance when I go, but I’m always aware of the time and how many others are waiting. I usually don’t have much to confess, but if it’s more than usual I’ll speak a bit more quickly. For the most part, I’m usually not in there more than 6-7 minutes, but there have been times that it’s taken 15-25 minutes. The bulk of the extra length stemmed from the priest’s questions and advice. Thankfully, on each of these occasions, I was either the last or only person in there.

While I’d hate for anyone to assume that I was using the confessional for anything other than Confession, I know it does happen occasionally. I nearly missed out one time at a neighboring parish because the lady in front of me took some time afterward to talk to the priest about the menu and invitations for an upcoming parish dinner. Thankfully her friend, who was also waiting, knew this was going on and she interrupted them so we could get our Confessions in.

Oh my gosh. I don’t know the circumstances of your parish. But 30 minutes once a month just seem inadequate. We have confession 30 minutes each day before Mass, monday thru friday and an hour on Saturday. Plus appointments for those who wish to make them.