People needing more help than they realize

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royal_archer said:
I think God’s plan is for us to do something about it. Which hopefully gets us back to the point of the thread of how do we help these people?

Please leave the Sci-Fi out of it, this was meant to be a serious discussion.
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Well, Royal, we seem to leaving God’s providence, theology, fiction and science fiction out of it while you lecture us all on what God’s plan is supposed to be. It seems as though the power of science and social engineering knows no limits when in the sure hands of a powerful master of the universe like yourself. I for one am deeply impressed and am tooned for the next lesson…

your friend,

dj

And while this side show evolves:

G. K. Chesterton
When Plain Folk, such as you or I,
See the Sun sinking in the sky,
We think it is the Setting Sun,
But Mr. Gilbert Chesterton
Is not so easily misled.
He calmly stands upon his head,
And upside down obtains a new
And Chestertonian point of view,
Observing thus, how from his toes
The sun creeps nearer to his nose,
He cries with wonder and delight,
“How Grand the sunrise is to-night!”
by Oliver Herford
from Confessions of a Caricaturist

For more on the virtual certainties social engineering:

payingattentiontothesky.com/2009/09/15/the-diabolists-among-us/
 
djeter said:
Well, Royal, we seem to leaving God’s providence, theology, fiction and science fiction out of it while you lecture us all on what God’s plan is supposed to be. It seems as though the power of science and social engineering knows no limits when in the sure hands of a powerful master of the universe like yourself. I for one am deeply impressed and am tooned for the next lesson…

your friend,

dj

And while this side show evolves:

G. K. Chesterton
When Plain Folk, such as you or I,
See the Sun sinking in the sky,
We think it is the Setting Sun,
But Mr. Gilbert Chesterton
Is not so easily misled.
He calmly stands upon his head,
And upside down obtains a new
And Chestertonian point of view,
Observing thus, how from his toes
The sun creeps nearer to his nose,
He cries with wonder and delight,
“How Grand the sunrise is to-night!”
by Oliver Herford
from Confessions of a Caricaturist

For more on the virtual certainties social engineering:

payingattentiontothesky.com/2009/09/15/the-diabolists-among-us/
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social engineering?
 
djeter said:
You’ve eliminated prayer and spreading the gospel (Matthew 25 where applicable) to these unfortunates and refuse to believe in God’s providence. Are you Catholic /BTW?

dj
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Of course I am Catholic.

Prayer is appropriate and helpfull but we are also called to serve. While preaching to those in this type of need is appropriate, we mus also deal with the ones who do not have the faculties to respond appropriately.
 
royal_archer said:
Today I made the mistake of watching afternoon court shows. I used to think they were actors untill a lawyer friend confirmed that those shows are indicative of people they run into in real life court cases. Then I watched the news and things didn’t get any better.

I am trying to be as sensative as possible with out ignoring the issue so here goes. I am convinced that there is a section of the population who are not capable of making rationale decisions. This results in these individuals continually making one detrimental decision after another. At what point do we say it is in these people’s best interest to appoint a guardian for them or some similar action?

I really feel sorry for these people who just don’t know better or just don’t have the capability to make better decisions. I don’t want to accuse any specific person of being in such a condition but in general what do we for people who do fit into this grouping?
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It is unfortunate that the Lord put a limit on human intelligence but no limit on human stupidity.
 
royal_archer said:
I get the impressio you are advocating allowing the mentally disabled to just suffer for lack of ability to make basic decisions because it is part of God’s plan. Is this correct?

I think God’s plan is for us to do something about it. Which hopefully gets us back to the point of the thread of how do we help these people?
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I believe I said up-thread that that is not what I think at all.
 
royal_archer said:
given that there are those out there who for one reason or another, can not make rational decisions, what do we do with them? I am thinking that some of these people need to have guardians appointed for them.
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This is a really scary thought. Who will decide what is a rational decision? Is going to church every Sunday rational? Maybe those of us who exhibit this aberrant behavior should be institutonalized.
We appoint guardians for abandoned and neglected children, and it doesn’t always work out the way we intend . . . recent media reports show a high percentage of abuse and even death in those children. Would it be any better for adults?
There is a reason that in this country it’s very hard to commit someone as insane or incompetent. It’s because power corrupts, and the lawmakers knew it.
 
Something you’re perhaps overlooking is that people change.
I was on welfare for 7 years while I raised my children, I was afraid to go back to work. I had been alone for so long, and abused before that, that I had no idea of my capability or self-worth.
The rules of welfare forced me to return to work when my youngest child started school. That, among other mercies, was my salvation. I make better than average salary now and support several other people. I learned how to make better decisions by watching other people, and by suffering the consequences of my ignorant actions.
I still have a lot to learn, but at least I know it. One thing I notice about the folks on TV is that they have little idea how unhealthy their choices are. And the show hosts do little to help them, they mostly exploit them.
Makes the rest of us feel superior, I suppose, since we’re not screaming at our ex-spouses on national TV.
 
Viki63 said:
This is a really scary thought. Who will decide what is a rational decision? Is going to church every Sunday rational? Maybe those of us who exhibit this aberrant behavior should be institutonalized.
We appoint guardians for abandoned and neglected children, and it doesn’t always work out the way we intend . . . recent media reports show a high percentage of abuse and even death in those children. Would it be any better for adults?
There is a reason that in this country it’s very hard to commit someone as insane or incompetent. It’s because power corrupts, and the lawmakers knew it.
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Any such criteria would have to be based on someones inability to provide for themselves. For instance the area 51 types may be nuts but many are able to take care of themselves. It is when people can no longer take care of themselves that things become an issue.
 
Viki63 said:
Something you’re perhaps overlooking is that people change.
I was on welfare for 7 years while I raised my children, I was afraid to go back to work. I had been alone for so long, and abused before that, that I had no idea of my capability or self-worth.
The rules of welfare forced me to return to work when my youngest child started school. That, among other mercies, was my salvation. I make better than average salary now and support several other people. I learned how to make better decisions by watching other people, and by suffering the consequences of my ignorant actions.
I still have a lot to learn, but at least I know it. One thing I notice about the folks on TV is that they have little idea how unhealthy their choices are. And the show hosts do little to help them, they mostly exploit them.
Makes the rest of us feel superior, I suppose, since we’re not screaming at our ex-spouses on national TV.
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Great for you. I am glad to hear this story. For you it was a temporary set back it seems. When given the ultimatum you made the right choice and went back to work. Many are not blessed with the same wisdom.

It is not just those on entertainment tv that are exploiting these people the politicians and many government funded social agencies are also exploiting these poor people.
 
royal_archer said:
I was thinking more about the decisions that make people go bankrupt and perpetualy dependent on public assistance even though they are able bodied.
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I think caring for that sort of person is difficult. In some ways, it reminds me of the elderly. They no longer work, but sometimes, eventually, they can’t manage their affairs. For example, they might stop paying their taxes each April, even though they otherwise don’t seem to suffer dementia. They won’t call a repair man if the heat breaks, etc.

At some point, we ought to step in and do something. I don’t know how to find that point.
 
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