People Of The Book in Islam

[jimkhong]

Good (name removed by moderator)ut as usual, mamlukman

Muslims in India generally consider Hindus people of the book. It’s a matter of political expediency rather than religion in many cases. But there’s no uniformity or agreement.

While I agree with much that you have mentioned , I would just like to point out that in my experience there is often a layer of sincerity underneath that political expediency. Where Muslims live as neighbours with other religions, they tend to be more tolerant of them. It is hard to consign to hell the playmates that you grew up with, with to school with, invited over to your house for Eid, etc, ate at their house even when you know their plates served non-halal food. I remember a debate on radio once on this very issue between a Saudi cleric and an Indian cleric. The Saudi cleric’s view was very much based on stereotypes and textbook literalism while the Indian spoke from personal experience.

One interesting footnote to all this is the common Muslim name for Christians: Nazaris. Most people mistakenly think this means something like “Nazareans” --i.e., from Nazareth. It doesn’t–it refers to Nazaris, a little sect in S. Iraq with a set of rather esoteric beliefs. The Muslims ran into them early on and began to use the name to refer to Christians. The name stuck and the original Nazaris are basically forgotten, although there are still some around. If you notice, ISIS marks the houses of Christians with an “N” --Nazari.

I have heard this before but I have yet to see any scholastic reference to it. Can you share them?

I know of Iranian Christians who carry Nazari as a surname. Also, in my country, Malay Muslims refer to Christian Eurasians as ‘Nasrani’, a variation of Nazarean.

 

[mamlukman]

I have heard this before but I have yet to see any scholastic reference to it. Can you share them?

I know of Iranian Christians who carry Nazari as a surname. Also, in my country, Malay Muslims refer to Christian Eurasians as ‘Nasrani’, a variation of Nazarean.

Yes, it’s also a common surname, esp. in Iran–and Malaysia, as you say. It has a history (I think more modern) of being a common term for “white men” or Europeans. In much of the Middle East the official (i.e., ID cards) name for Christians is “Masihi” (from Messiah, thus followers of the Messiah). I think there is a feeling that the term “Masihi” for Christians is a European import. Some say “Nasrani” is derogatory, others don’t feel that way.

Nasrani is one of these terms that’s hard to pin down since it has had shifting meanings. But it does seem that the Nasoraeans, a pre-Christian group of pagans in S. Iraq was the original (or one of the original) sources of the word “Nasrani”. There’s a certain irony here since to the Nasoraeans, Jesus is the son of Satan. That would, however, give it a certain flavor for early Muslims, esp. since it was a term that could easily be confused with “Nazorean” (from Nazareth).

There is a long discussion here: scribd.com/doc/51920767/Nasarani-and-Hanif-by-F-de-Blois

 

[GUNNER7070]

What we have been thought about the people of the book, people who are Jewish and Christians.

but regarding to the question of the Christians common name in Islam which some members wrote as ( Nazaris ) the term in arabic is نصارى

without going in details in the root of that word ( arabic language roots system ), I think the following verse will show the real meaning of that name:

Chapter 3 verse 52:
But when Jesus felt [persistence in] disbelief from them, he said, “Who are my supporters for [the cause of] Allah ?” The disciples said," We are supporters for Allah . We have believed in Allah and testify that we are Muslims [submitting to Him].

the name means supporters.

I have a very limited knowledge, please forgive me for that, The question just reminded me of some verses in the Qur’an.

 

[jimkhong]

There is a long discussion here: scribd.com/doc/51920767/Nasarani-and-Hanif-by-F-de-Blois

Thansk maklukman. Took me a little longer to read that post - maybe my intellectual capacity is now flagging

Yes I was aware of the sect, just didn’t know it was S Iraq.

It was really on factors such as this that I am explaining to my people (who are very much under threat of conversion due to Islamisation programmes) that Mohammad’s views of Christians contained in the Quran are based on heretical Christian sects and scriptures

• Ebionite origins of Waraqa (I think it was more likely he was Ebionite rather than Assyrian)
• parallels betwen Quranic stories of Jesus and Infancy Gospel of the Arabs
• references to Nasrani as mentioned above
• incorrect references to supposed Christian practices & doctrines in Quran

As such, it is hard to take Quranic criticisms of Christians if they are based on incorrect understanding.

Which also leads to the question whether history would have been different if Christians had been more united in doctrine (which is largely due to political divisions etc) and Orthodoxy more in ascendency rather than heretical sects which are now extinct.

 

[mamlukman]

What we have been thought about the people of the book, people who are Jewish and Christians.

but regarding to the question of the Christians common name in Islam which some members wrote as ( Nazaris ) the term in arabic is نصارى

without going in details in the root of that word ( arabic language roots system ), I think the following verse will show the real meaning of that name:

Chapter 3 verse 52:
But when Jesus felt [persistence in] disbelief from them, he said, “Who are my supporters for [the cause of] Allah ?” The disciples said," We are supporters for Allah . We have believed in Allah and testify that we are Muslims [submitting to Him].

the name means supporters.

I have a very limited knowledge, please forgive me for that, The question just reminded me of some verses in the Qur’an.

Yes, نصارى plural انصار means “supporters” or “helpers.” And there are similar translations of that verse islamawakened.com/quran/3/52/

One of the Muslim term for Christians is نصراني --same roots as above (n-s-r) but a different word. There is a good Wikipedia article about the term “Nazarene” en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazarene_(title

The Arabic for “Nazareth” is الناصرة so it seems a bit strange (to me, at least) that the long “A” in the word for “Nazareth” is replaced by a short “A” in نصراني, and of course the short “A” between “s” and “r” in “Nazareth” is replaced by a long “A” in نصراني . Stranger transformations have happened (in all languages), but without a lot more investigation, it seems to me that although they have the same root (as with “helper”), they’re different words. نصارى (in your post) has the same issue–the long “A” moves from between the “n” and “s” in “Nazareth” to between “s” and “r” in “Christian”.

 

[GUNNER7070]

Yes, نصارى plural انصار means “supporters” or “helpers.” And there are similar translations of that verse islamawakened.com/quran/3/52/

One of the Muslim term for Christians is نصراني --same roots as above (n-s-r) but a different word. There is a good Wikipedia article about the term “Nazarene” en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazarene_(title

The Arabic for “Nazareth” is الناصرة so it seems a bit strange (to me, at least) that the long “A” in the word for “Nazareth” is replaced by a short “A” in نصراني, and of course the short “A” between “s” and “r” in “Nazareth” is replaced by a long “A” in نصراني . Stranger transformations have happened (in all languages), but without a lot more investigation, it seems to me that although they have the same root (as with “helper”), they’re different words. نصارى (in your post) has the same issue–the long “A” moves from between the “n” and “s” in “Nazareth” to between “s” and “r” in “Christian”.

Thank you mamlukman, I have checked the links specially the wikipedia one:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazarene_(title

then after that I checked few sites in arabic for the root of the word and i felt my head started spinning

i never thought the arabic language was this hard, does anybody know if other Semitic languages the same?

This is what we have been thought in high school regarding about the meaning of ( people of the book ) ( who are Jewish and Christians ) and ( Nasara نصارى as supporters and helpers )

This is why i took the meaning for granted, i never thought there was a whole research behind the meaning, please forgive my ignorance.

This made me want to learn more specially the difference in opinions between religions and interpretations.

 

[GUNNER7070]

I could not edit the post above to clear few typos and add that the issue has many aspects first linguistically then was the name specified for a certain place and a certain people or this is a general?

only Allah knows, I really do not know, but if we take the word Nasara for example to be for certain people and certain place for about 600 years then i do not think that is the case, but this is only my speculation, Allah Knows.

I am really sorry couldn’t help.