People please help me with this one before I go insane

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Ask if the Bible wasn’t compiled by the bishops in the early church if it fell down from the sky. Ask her which Church created the doctrine of the Holy Trinity? All the core beliefs are from Catholicism/Orthodox
 
Since she loves quoting scripture, let her chew on this one:

1 Timothy 3:15 -

the pillar and bulwark of the truth is the CHURCH

😉
 
Righteousone said:
Today I had a debate with a Protestant from a church called “The Bridge of Christ” or something like that. She said that I was crazy in telling her that her bible came from the Catholic church, that it was compiled by the Roman Pontiff in 397 A.D. at the Councl of Carthage.
Well, I never heard such hatred toward me with her name calling and saying that I was the one who was a kook for saying this. She went on and on, quoting Scripture, everything was the bible, bible, bible. I tried to tell her about the Catacombs with their early church writings on the wall from the saints, and about the Early Church Fathers. She simply called me a f------jerk and said satan was attacking me. Even tho I told her sola scripture was not biblical, she refused to think anything else. She was so angry that I couldn’t believe she could act as she did. I was calm and just told her historical facts, then she said “screw history”. What else can convince her that our church is the one and only church? I am xhausted from telling her the same old thing, you know, 2,000 years in existence, unbroken link…is there anything else I can do to basically shut her up and start thinking about it?
Please don’t say it’s hopeless, i will see her again. Thanks.
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I’ve been told I’m wrong on Catholic things, too. But not with such nice language. 😉

The truth is that they don’t know what they’re talking about, but can’t admit it. They believed some “facts” about their religion and about the Catholic Church for a long time, and we really rocked their boat with what we told them.

I don’t know about your friend, but the people I’ve talked to are actually stunned by what I told them. They don’t believe it. Some come around and accept that history is what it is. Others shut down. They go back to what they’re comfortable with. They either don’t think about what they’ve heard, or else they assume that I don’t know what I’m talking about.

I wouldn’t worry about it. If someone is swearing at you, they’re not open to real discussion. If someone who swore at me brought the topic up again, I’d make sure she was willing to have a real discussion. If not, I would tell her that because of her behavior in the last conversation, I wouldn’t be talking about the facts of Catholic history with her again.

The info is out there is she really wants to find it. It’s not up to you to make her understand.
 
Righteousone said:
She simply called me a f------jerk and said satan was attacking me.
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Righteousone said:
I was calm and just told her historical facts, then she said “screw history”.
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Righteousone said:
The anger, her face was beat red, almost like satan was saying these things…:eek: I didn’t mean to rile her up, I just know my history. (of my church).
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Righteousone said:
She insists that God dropped it down from heaven…
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Righteousone said:
Please don’t say it’s hopeless, i will see her again. Thanks.
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Righteousone said:
People please help me with this one before I go insane
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something is not right here. with both your story and your reaction. 🤷
 
You could always buy her a copy of “Four Witnesses: The Early Church in Her Own Words” by Rod Bennett and see what she thinks of it, although I’d imagine it would again be a hostile reaction. It chronicles the early church using the writings of Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, Justin Martyr, and Iraneus of Lyons.

I agree with some of the posters above. You should ask her where she thinks the Bible came from and how it developed. Then, when you reply, here are some things to consider that will make her think:

Who translated this Bible into a single language? The Old Testament was in Hebrew, and the New Testament was in Greek. Surely most people at the time didn’t read both of these languages. Further, can you show an example of a complete Bible (containing the books that we know today) in a single language before St. Jerome in the early 400s?

How important was Scripture to the first generations of Christians? Was it more important than the personal testimony of the Apostles? If not, then was it more important that the testimony of the second generation of Christians, those personally trained by the Apostles? If not, did their views hold equal importance? (Use this trick to try and get at the importance of Sacred Tradition as equal to the Bible…)

Who were the Gnostics and Docetists? Their writings were widespread. Why didn’t they make it in the New Testament? (You could always show her a copy of the Gospel of Thomas and see what she makes of it…) Inform her of the very non-traditional beliefs of these groups.

What about other texts like the Infancy Gospel of Thomas? Although books like this were clearly just folktales written about the unknown periods of Jesus’s life, who halted their use?

What about texts that were widely in use that were valuable, but didn’t make it in, such as the Didache, the Epistle of Barnabas, and the Shepherd of Hermas? Some early communities used these books as if they were scripture. How did that end?

Some groups even rejected several accepted books, like 2 Peter and (especially) Revelation. Why were they eventually accepted?

Another question to ponder… how did a persecuted, underground organization with branches spread out over Europe, the Middle East, and North Africa manage to maintain doctrinal unity and decide upon what constituted scripture while in hiding? (Short answer… because BISHOPS traveled between the various cities for the purposes of communication to ensure this.)
 
Righteousone said:
Today I had a debate with a Protestant from a church called “The Bridge of Christ” or something like that. She said that I was crazy in telling her that her bible came from the Catholic church, that it was compiled by the Roman Pontiff in 397 A.D. at the Councl of Carthage.
Well, I never heard such hatred toward me with her name calling and saying that I was the one who was a kook for saying this. She went on and on, quoting Scripture, everything was the bible, bible, bible. I tried to tell her about the Catacombs with their early church writings on the wall from the saints, and about the Early Church Fathers. She simply called me a f------jerk and said satan was attacking me. Even tho I told her sola scripture was not biblical, she refused to think anything else. She was so angry that I couldn’t believe she could act as she did. I was calm and just told her historical facts, then she said “screw history”. What else can convince her that our church is the one and only church? I am xhausted from telling her the same old thing, you know, 2,000 years in existence, unbroken link…is there anything else I can do to basically shut her up and start thinking about it?
Please don’t say it’s hopeless, i will see her again. Thanks.
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First translation of the Gospels into the English language
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=173535

Desiderius Erasmus : Textus Receptus
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=183081

Ignoring Church History
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=158392

History of The English Bible
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=155265

How I Solved the Catholic Problem by Kristine L. Franklin
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=157731
 
Gamera said:
This website contains and article on Martin Luther and baptism which says, in reference to Luther, “Indeed, he and the other reformers challenged the Catholic Church that sold indulgences and offered a “works-based” type of salvation.” What? I wouldn’t recommend this website as an accurate source of Catholic teaching.
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Then how about this site?: bible.ca/cr-lutheran.htm#articles

I do agree that works alone cannot save, and neither can faith alone. The Book of James speaks plainly in this area. James 2:18. 😉
 
Harmony1988 said:
Since she loves quoting scripture, let her chew on this one:

1 Timothy 3:15 -

the pillar and bulwark of the truth is the CHURCH

😉
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Thank you! I was hoping that someone would post this. I’d ask her this:

“In YOUR opinion what is the pillar of truth for a Christian?”

When she responds with “THE BIBLE!” Say something like, “Well, the Bible says that the CHURCH is the pillar of truth…”
 
Righteousone said:
Today I had a debate with a Protestant from a church called “The Bridge of Christ” or something like that. She said that I was crazy in telling her that her bible came from the Catholic church, that it was compiled by the Roman Pontiff in 397 A.D. at the Councl of Carthage.
Well, I never heard such hatred toward me with her name calling and saying that I was the one who was a kook for saying this. She went on and on, quoting Scripture, everything was the bible, bible, bible. I tried to tell her about the Catacombs with their early church writings on the wall from the saints, and about the Early Church Fathers. She simply called me a f------jerk and said satan was attacking me. Even tho I told her sola scripture was not biblical, she refused to think anything else. She was so angry that I couldn’t believe she could act as she did. I was calm and just told her historical facts, then she said “screw history”. What else can convince her that our church is the one and only church? I am xhausted from telling her the same old thing, you know, 2,000 years in existence, unbroken link…is there anything else I can do to basically shut her up and start thinking about it?
Please don’t say it’s hopeless, i will see her again. Thanks.
Click to expand...
At this point in time, nothing you say is going to convince her of the truth. Sometimes it is best to as one friend told me, shake the dust off your feet and walk away. 🙂 Peace
 
elt1956 said:
At this point in time, nothing you say is going to convince her of the truth. Sometimes it is best to as one friend told me, shake the dust off your feet and walk away. 🙂 Peace
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I have to disagree - It is his job to plant the seed of Truth - The Holy Spirit will choose the time and place to let it grow,
 
MH84 said:
I agree.

Righteousone, I think that you must have did something to provoke her. The story is too one-sided.
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Not true, imo. Some people are so anti-Catholic, that any information that seems to support the validity of the Church makes them extremely angry.

I told a group of people once that the Bible was compiled by a group of men, and those people yelled at me. They assumed that it was written very early, and at one time, and that the earliest Church had a complete NT to work with.

They were a normal bunch, though, and when they read the information about the Bible, they calmed down.

People went balistic once, too, when I told them that in Catholicism 7 is considered the age of reason, and that’s why kids make their Frist Confession and First Holy Communion at about that age. A Catholic woman ranted that I was wrong, using the fact that her father was a deacon to prove that she knew better than I. She later admitted that she was wrong, after she ranted to her father about the idiot who told her about the age of reason. She didn’t apologize for her behavior, but she did admit to being wrong, saying that her father told her I was right. Later, she stood up for me when others were saying that I was wrong. 🙂 .

The truth about Catholicism doesn’t sit well with a lot of people. Extreme anger toward the messenger is a very common reaction. At least we’re not being crucified for spreading the truth. 🙂
 
Salamander said:
Code: 
What's wrong with this statement above?
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The Bible doesn’t exist in a vacuum. The Bible is not the Word of God in the primary and original sense. Jesus Christ is the Word of God. You have to start there, not with the Bible. (No, I’m not denying that the Bible is the Word of God. I’m saying that the Bible did not create the universe–it is not the primary and original reality.)

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
The Bible doesn’t exist in a vacuum. The Bible is not the Word of God in the primary and original sense. Jesus Christ is the Word of God. You have to start there, not with the Bible. (No, I’m not denying that the Bible is the Word of God. I’m saying that the Bible did not create the universe–it is not the primary and original reality.)

Edwin
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I’ve actually had a fundamentalist recite to me John 1:1 (“In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God,”) as evidence supporting sola scriptura. I asked her if that meant she thought the Bible is God. I got no answer.
 
Gamera said:
I’ve actually had a fundamentalist recite to me John 1:1 (“In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God,”) as evidence supporting sola scriptura. I asked her if that meant she thought the Bible is God. I got no answer.
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Got one better

Mormon Apostasy after the Last Apostle Died

Wow Wait a minute St John is not Dead He is Playing Patty cake with Cain ( of the Black Seed) I.E BIGFOOT = Sasquatch

Wow Why isnt ST John in Salt Lake in the Living Prophets Chair?

And wait a minute what about those 3 still living Nephites?
 
Contarini said:
Jesus Christ is the Word of God. You have to start there, not with the Bible.
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But the bible is the reference for Jesus’ words. Catholic Traditions dont say any new ideas from Jesus, or do they? 🤷
 
AgnosTheist said:
But the bible is the reference for Jesus’ words. Catholic Traditions dont say any new ideas from Jesus, or do they? 🤷
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Just tell em - If You do not follow THE WORD you are just blowing hot air

John 15 Found 13 Greater love than this no man hath, that a man lay down his life for his friends
 
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