People repeating Eurchristic prayer after priest?

[dfp42]

There are a few very relevant possibilities…

1. he’s got it memorized and can’t read the missal during the mass (which means he may use it even when not technically appropriate)
2. he is doing it for specific catechetical purposes, which may be licit, if his bishop approves
3. his bishop has indulted EPfC II for adult use
4. He might not realize its restricted for masses with Children (Unlikely, but possible)

I’m guessing number 4. Do you think its wrong for me to ask him after mass why he’s using it, or should I just let it go and move on with the mass?

 

[Matthew_Holford]

I thought that the old Sacramentary would be verboten once the new translation is implemented.

According to the wording of Cardinal George’s decree of promulgation of the revised Missal in the US: “… no other edition of the Roman Missal may be used in the dioceses of the United States of America” that would seem to be the case in the US. Interestingly, I wonder if that wording could prevent the use of the 1962 Roman Missal.

 

[Aramis]

According to the wording of Cardinal George’s decree of promulgation of the revised Missal in the US: “… no other edition of the Roman Missal may be used in the dioceses of the United States of America” that would seem to be the case in the US. Interestingly, I wonder if that wording could prevent the use of the 1962 Roman Missal.

It would, except for the fact that it can’t abrogate Rome’s blanket permission in Summorum Pontificum for the '62 missal.

It also should be noted that it has no effect on the Dominican missal, nor the Eastern Catholic Churches, either.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

It would, except for the fact that it can’t abrogate Rome’s blanket permission in Summorum Pontificum for the '62 missal.

I have no doubt that it would not have any affect I just thought it was an interesting question to pose.

It also should be noted that it has no effect on the Dominican missal, nor the Eastern Catholic Churches, either.

As the decree referred to the Roman Missal it obviously would not affect any other rites in the Latin Catholic Church and it wouldn’t affect the rites in the Eastern Catholic Churches.

 

[malphono]

It would, except for the fact that it can’t abrogate Rome’s blanket permission in Summorum Pontificum for the '62 missal.

Actually no, it would not. The wording of that “promulgation decree” affects only the English-language version of the Novus Ordo. It has no bearing whatsoever even on the Latin editio typica of the Novus Ordo. Nor would it have had any effect on the MR on 1962, Summorum Pontificum notwithstanding.

It also should be noted that it has no effect on the Dominican missal, nor the Eastern Catholic Churches, either.

Nor any other non-Roman Rite usage English language missal. Even the Anglican Use Missal is similarly not affected by it.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Really? I guess I flew of the handle a little bit because the rest of the text is “kid-ish” and dumbed down. Sorry Y’all for my temper!

There is a provision for that in the GIRM and of course it has to be approved by the area’s Episcopal Conference and given Recognitio by the Vatican.

Although there have been cases of absuses where the practice of one Episcopal Conferece spills to another because of migration. Although I do not see it as a heavy abuse because the GIRM provides for it. The only abuse is that its unapproved for said locale.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Do you know offhand if this is simply a custom, or is it in the Roman Missal or GIRM for the Philippines?

#147 of the GIRM states that:

1. Then the priest begins the Eucharistic Prayer. In accordance with the rubrics (cf. no. 365), he selects a Eucharistic Prayer from those found in The Roman Missal or approved by the Apostolic See. The Eucharistic Prayer demands, by its very nature, that only the priest say it in virtue of his ordination. The people, for their part, should associate themselves with the priest in faith and in silence, as well as through their parts as prescribed in the course of the Eucharistic Prayer: namely, the responses in the Preface dialogue, the Sanctus, the acclamation after the consecration, the acclamatory Amen after the final doxology, as well as other acclamations approved by the Conference of Bishops and recognized by the Holy See.

It may be a local custom or as a dmorgan has posted, its something that came from a TLM Missal in the past. The GIRM does make a provision that such acclimations are accepted with the approval of the Episcopal Conference and recognitio by the Holy See. So its not something that people just started doing, but in the case of the Philippines there was an instruction in the Missals to make such acclimation.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Interesting. I’ve never heard this in the Roman Rite. The only Masses for Children I’ve assisted in are those every Friday morning during the school year and apparently the priest there doesn’t use the Eucharistic Prayer II version.

In the ancient Divine Liturgies of St. John Chrysostom and of St. Basil the Great after the Anaphora we chant: “We praise Thee, we bless Thee, we give thanks unto Thee, O Lord; and we pray unto Thee, O our God.” (Usually in parishes I’m in it’s “We praise Thee, we bless Thee, we give thanks unto Thee, O Lord; and we pray unto Thee, pray unto Thee, O our God, and we pray unto Thee, O our God.”

Same where, when I read that I immedately thought of Divine Liturgy, not a Roman Mass.

 

[porthos11]

Do you know offhand if this is simply a custom, or is it in the Roman Missal or GIRM for the Philippines?

It is neither. One can say it quietly or interiorly as an act of devotion, the Philippines uses the U.S. edition of the Roman Missal for Masses in English. It has no indults for the Ordinary of the Mass.

 

[ConstantineTG]

It is neither. One can say it quietly or interiorly as an act of devotion, the Philippines uses the U.S. edition of the Roman Missal for Masses in English. It has no indults for the Ordinary of the Mass.

Not so, the Philippines has its own Episcopal Conference and thus has its own GIRM. US adaptations are not necessarily practiced in the Philippines. Anything approved in the US would need to be approved again in the Philippines if it is applied at all. As you will notice in the implementation of the new English translations, each Episcopal Conference would need separate recognitio from the Holy See.

The acclimations used in the Philippines are enforced by the local Episcopal Conference with the recognitio of the Holy See (I assume). This would be a Philippine specific adaptation of the GIRM, even though the English Missal may use the same translation as the US does.

 

[porthos11]

Not so, the Philippines has its own Episcopal Conference and thus has its own GIRM.

Well, I don’t really know about that; the CBCP has kinda appeared lax in matters liturgical. For the longest time we followed the US GIRM to the letter and then relatively recently, people started standing after the Consecration, more in line with the universal IGMR. But I haven’t seen any “Philippine GIRM” per se.

The acclimations used in the Philippines are enforced by the local Episcopal Conference with the recognitio of the Holy See (I assume). This would be a Philippine specific adaptation of the GIRM, even though the English Missal may use the same translation as the US does.

There is no Philippine edition Sacramentary or Lectionary in English (the current U.S. editions are in force) and the local vernacular ones I’m aware of do not have any other memorial acclamations other than those that match up to the Latin or English (from the looks of it, the 1970’s ICEL translation influenced the translation into the local vernaculars). Any other acclamation other than the four in the current English of the U.S. edition is therefore illicit even in the Philippines.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Well, I don’t really know about that; the CBCP has kinda appeared lax in matters liturgical. For the longest time we followed the US GIRM to the letter and then relatively recently, people started standing after the Consecration, more in line with the universal IGMR. But I haven’t seen any “Philippine GIRM” per se.

The CBCP website is hardly the most updated website out there. You can try going to the Archdiocese of Manila or Diocese of Cubao (if you’re in Metro Manila) and ask for a copy. Or perhaps your parish priest may have a copy furnished to parishes.

The GIRM is essentially universal for about 80-90% of it. There is a short list of adaptations which are unique for a territory and would have to have a separate recognitio from the Holy See. Even if the CBCP wouild copy the US GIRM word-for-word, it would still need a separate recognitio from the Holy See and would be labeled as “GIRM with adaptations for the Philippines.” There is no force of law if there is no recognitio

There is no Philippine edition Sacramentary or Lectionary in English (the current U.S. editions are in force) and the local vernacular ones I’m aware of do not have any other memorial acclamations other than those that match up to the Latin or English (from the looks of it, the 1970’s ICEL translation influenced the translation into the local vernaculars). Any other acclamation other than the four in the current English of the U.S. edition is therefore illicit even in the Philippines.

I doubt that its illicit since its use is widespread and supported by parishes. Illicit practices generally are not widespread. Although you may right that the practiced may have died out. I cannot find it in recent missallettes

rome67ad.com/download-page/cat_view/27-sambuhay-tagalog.html

 

[porthos11]

I doubt that its illicit since its use is widespread and supported by parishes. Illicit practices generally are not widespread. Although you may right that the practiced may have died out. I cannot find it in recent missallettes

rome67ad.com/download-page/cat_view/27-sambuhay-tagalog.html

I really don’t know about this because I have never encountered it at all in all my 30+ years of living there. I have only heard three common licit ones and one common illicit one.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I really don’t know about this because I have never encountered it at all in all my 30+ years of living there. I have only heard three common licit ones and one common illicit one.

Er, which parish do you go to? I encounter it all the time, its even flashed on the projector screen when to acclaim, “My Lord and my God”.

 

[porthos11]

Er, which parish do you go to? I encounter it all the time, its even flashed on the projector screen when to acclaim, “My Lord and my God”.

I used to live in the Archdiocese of Cebu, and attended a variety of churches. Never encountered it as a response either in English, Cebuano or Tagalog.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I used to live in the Archdiocese of Cebu, and attended a variety of churches. Never encountered it as a response either in English, Cebuano or Tagalog.

So it could be just a Manila thing?

I hardly ever attend just one parish. I think in a given year I attend at least 5 different parishes regularly around Metro Manila and I’ve always encountered the practice. I know its even in the Missallettes, but the ones I found online doesn’t have it anymore. Maybe they stopped the practice.