People who do not like traditional Catholicism

[nice2000]

My friend, come down to Catholic New Orleans. I’m not 72, I’m 56 and I can guarantee you that if you ride public transportation with me you will find Catholics who make the sign of the cross passing in front of the Holy Eucharist inside that Catholic Church. No it is not an automatic thing nor is it restricted to the “elderly” nor, more importantly, is it looked at askance.

I took the bus in high school and college almost 40 years ago. Want me to tell you which churches I passed on my way home? Our Lady of Guadalupe, St. Joseph’s, St. Christopher’s. Automatic robotic, indeed.

Hi Brother,

I wasn’t trying to be mean when I stated “automatic robotic genuflection”. I was just teasing. I actually think doing the “Sign of the Cross” when passing a Catholic church is very “respectul and loving” to our God the Father, our Lord Jesus, our Mother and all the Saints & angels.

Oh, by the way, I’ve been to New Orleans five times(Essence Music Festival), I’ve been on several of the bus tours and enjoyed
them very much. The tours enlightened me a great deal. I did learn on those tours that New Orleans is like 90% Catholic. I’ve visited the tombs(gaveyard) and even took a picture of Mother Theresa’s statue inside the graveyard. I learned some very interesting things about New Orleans.

Matter of factly, The last time I was in New Orleans was the same year of Hurricane Katrina. I left two weeks before the storm. Just imagine if I would have decided to stay longer…I would have been caught in the storm.

New Orleans is one of my favorite places.

 

[brotherhrolf]

If you come back, check out St. Patrick’s which is a few blocks over from the Quarter. It was the second church built in NO and has been renovated. It is the home of the TLM and also an OF in Latin.

Tell me about the cemetaries - I’ve got relatives there. All Saints Day has a big tradition here too.

 

[nice2000]

If you come back, check out St. Patrick’s which is a few blocks over from the Quarter. It was the second church built in NO and has been renovated. It is the home of the TLM and also an OF in Latin.

Tell me about the cemetaries - I’ve got relatives there. All Saints Day has a big tradition here too.

Hi Brother, What’s TLM?

Here is what I learned about the cemetaries(tombs) in New Orleans.

I remember the tour guide mentioning that the cemetaries, “tombs” are used because the N.O. law states, that you guys are not allowed to bury the dead inside the ground(six feet under) because of the flood waters. Back in the day, I can’t remember the exact date, New Orleans had a terrible flood. During that time, the dead were buried six feet under the ground. Because of this terrible flood the bodies(caskets) came up out of the ground. This is the reason why the dead in New Orleans are buried inside of tombs. The tour guide also mentioned that each family purchases only one tomb, and it is used by every member of the family. When a family member dies, they are placed inside the tomb for one year, properly wrapped of course. The temperature of the tombs decays the body into bones. When the one year is up …the bones are placed inside a box. Inside of the tomb. This process is done over and over again for each family member.

 

[japhy]

Hi Brother, What’s TLM?

TLM = Traditional Latin Mass.

Also known as the Extraordinary Form (EF), the Tridentine Mass, and more recently as the Gregorian Rite.

 

[nice2000]

TLM = Traditional Latin Mass.

Also known as the Extraordinary Form (EF), the Tridentine Mass, and more recently as the Gregorian Rite.

Thank you Japhy

I learn something new everyday !

 

[brotherhrolf]

Hi Brother, What’s TLM?

Here is what I learned about the cemetaries(tombs) in New Orleans.

I remember the tour guide mentioning that the cemetaries, “tombs” are used because the N.O. law states, that you guys are not allowed to bury the dead inside the ground(six feet under) because of the flood waters. Back in the day, I can’t remember the exact date, New Orleans had a terrible flood. During that time, the dead were buried six feet under the ground. Because of this terrible flood the bodies(caskets) came up out of the ground. This is the reason why the dead in New Orleans are buried inside of tombs. The tour guide also mentioned that each family purchases only one tomb, and it is used by every member of the family. When a family member dies, they are placed inside the tomb for one year, properly wrapped of course. The temperature of the tombs decays the body into bones. When the one year is up …the bones are placed inside a box. Inside of the tomb. This process is done over and over again for each family member.

Japhy answered the TLM question above. The tomb issue is exactly correct. I hope to be buried with my ancestors in our family tomb. And, yes, there were several instances after Katrina of the newly buried coming up out of the ground.

All Saints Day is a big to-do in NO. We take a picnic lunch to the cemetery, clean the tomb, whitewash it, plant flowers on the top, place flowers in the vases, etc. Since it is a Catholic cemetery, Mass is usually said in the chapel after lunch with everyone attending. We end up visiting with my cousins from my father’s side of the family as well. The only thing that mars this old tradition is the necessity for police protection.

 

[nice2000]

Japhy answered the TLM question above. The tomb issue is exactly correct. I hope to be buried with my ancestors in our family tomb. And, yes, there were several instances after Katrina of the newly buried coming up out of the ground.

All Saints Day is a big to-do in NO. We take a picnic lunch to the cemetery, clean the tomb, whitewash it, plant flowers on the top, place flowers in the vases, etc. Since it is a Catholic cemetery, Mass is usually said in the chapel after lunch with everyone attending. We end up visiting with my cousins from my father’s side of the family as well. The only thing that mars this old tradition is the necessity for police protection.

Very Nice. celebration
Yes, we must remember the “dead” or should we say the “living”

 

[rogerh_57]

Hi everyone! I am new to the website and have been lurking around for awhile. I found this thread quite interesting. I was raised a “southern” Methodist and just recently converted to Catholicism. (My wife and I have been attending mass for over 25 years.) Since I have been reading a LOT of the posts on this site and after reading through this thread, I feel I am a traditionalist eventhough I have not been Catholic for as long as most of you. Probably traditionalist in the sense of being older, ha ha. I am, in fact, very surprised at some of the posts from the younger Catholics and how they respond to the non-Catholics. It seems to me as a scripture “sluggfest”. It makes me a bit uneasy. The positive side of it is that I can use the stated references in my continued learning experience into the Catholic faith. God bless!

 

[PrayforMallory]

Hi everyone! I am new to the website and have been lurking around for awhile. I found this thread quite interesting. I was raised a “southern” Methodist and just recently converted to Catholicism. (My wife and I have been attending mass for over 25 years.) Since I have been reading a LOT of the posts on this site and after reading through this thread, I feel I am a traditionalist eventhough I have not been Catholic for as long as most of you. Probably traditionalist in the sense of being older, ha ha. I am, in fact, very surprised at some of the posts from the younger Catholics and how they respond to the non-Catholics. It seems to me as a scripture “sluggfest”. It makes me a bit uneasy. The positive side of it is that I can use the stated references in my continued learning experience into the Catholic faith. God bless!

Cool. Sounds like you’ve been an unofficial Catholic for a long time. If you have traditionalist sentiments, go in confidence to an approved traditional Mass!

 

[elzoro]

It’s called FEAR. Things are not going the neo-conservatives and liberals way these days. The Church is remembering tradition. The clothing that our Faith was handed down to us is slowly being put on again.

 

[elzoro]

Would someone please explain to me why so many people who do not like traditional Catholicism frequent this sub-forum? Are they trying to convert traditional Catholics to less traditional Catholicism? I can understand trying to convert someone who thinks that the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite is illicit or invalid, but why would one want to convert someone who just prefers the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite? Most of the people who I know who prefer the Extraordinary Form would be happy liturgically if every Mass was just celebrated sans liturgical abuses. Why is this a bad thing?

It’s called FEAR. Things are not going the neo-conservative’s way these days.

 

[pnewton]

It’s called FEAR. Things are not going the neo-conservative’s way these days.

Do you speak for yourself, or are you speculating on what others feel?

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

It still blows my mind the way people on this forum throw around terms about “trads”, “neo Catholics”, etc. The last I understood was that we are simply all Catholics with different preferences for a particular form, or rite of the mass. Be it Latin, English, Swahili, or whatever, it is the mass. That is what makes us Catholic. When I read a lot of this, I just end up shaking my head. None of us follow a different dogma, although if you listen to some, you would sure think so. If I prefer the Novus Ordo, that is my right to do so within the confines of the Holy Roman Catholic Church. If I prefer the Traditional Latin Mass, the same thing applies. I am amazed at how the same things can get said over and over, and no one changes their opinion. They don’t have to. Are we trying to see how many different ways we can all say the same thing.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[GemmaRose]

It still blows my mind the way people on this forum throw around terms about “trads”, “neo Catholics”, etc. The last I understood was that we are simply all Catholics with different preferences for a particular form, or rite of the mass. Be it Latin, English, Swahili, or whatever, it is the mass. That is what makes us Catholic. When I read a lot of this, I just end up shaking my head. None of us follow a different dogma, although if you listen to some, you would sure think so. If I prefer the Novus Ordo, that is my right to do so within the confines of the Holy Roman Catholic Church. If I prefer the Traditional Latin Mass, the same thing applies. I am amazed at how the same things can get said over and over, and no one changes their opinion. They don’t have to. Are we trying to see how many different ways we can all say the same thing.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

 

[CradleCath]

Deacon Ed B;3821471]It still blows my mind the way people on this forum throw around terms about “trads”, “neo Catholics”, etc. The last I understood was that we are simply all Catholics with different preferences for a particular form, or rite of the mass.

I agree with you Deacon Ed, that the we are all Catholics & should be careful with the terms we use. It would be ideal if we all agreed on how to practice our Catholic faith. However, this divide between those who crave the more traditional, those who believe that our Catholic culture is being lost, those who would like to attend a Novena one more time before they die…and…those who love the more modern practices, have an “understanding attitude” about abortion, gay sexual relationships & artificial birth control, have been at odds for a long time, nor is it an issue only in the Catholic Church. The Episcopalian Church is in BIG trouble because of some of the same differences

Be it Latin, English, Swahili, or whatever, it is the mass. That is what makes us Catholic. When I read a lot of this, I just end up shaking my head. None of us follow a different dogma, although if you listen to some, you would sure think so. If I prefer the Novus Ordo, that is my right to do so within the confines of the Holy Roman Catholic Church.

That is DEFINITELY your right & the Novus Ordo is the choice of most Catholics, right now. It is a valid Mass & has been called the ordinary Mass by the Pope, himself.

As far as “none of us follow a different dogma”, I’m not sure about your assertion. I see the families at Novus Ordo Masses enter with their 2 children…exactly 2 children…& wonder. I hear my grown children’s friends say, “well, what was she to do?”, when told of a college girl who had an abortion. And their attitude towards gay sex is that it is none of their business. They seem to have no problem exposing their young children to this kind of “family life” as the pastor in my Novus Ordo parish put it. Yep, on the feast of the Holy Family he spoke about the different forms of “family” today…grandparents raising grandchildren & gay couples with adopted children as if they were no different than the conventional husband/wife/chidren families.

If I prefer the Traditional Latin Mass, the same thing applies. I am amazed at how the same things can get said over and over, and no one changes their opinion. They don’t have to. Are we trying to see how many different ways we can all say the same thing.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

Many of us feel strongly about the fact that our grown children, raised as Catholics, have never been inside an actual confessional, never taken part in a Novena, have never heard the Litany of the Saints, have attended many Seder meals but never taken Hot Cross Buns to the nuns in the convent on Easter Week (I think that this was a local custom), are very “iffy” on the Communion of Saints & the Mass as a Sacrifice/Communal meal…this list could go on & on. Usually, when I have mentioned these things during the past 40 yrs., I’ve been ridiculed. Not all Novus Ordo Catholics are as kind & agreeable as you. (Not all Trads are either)>

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I …those who love the more modern practices, have an “understanding attitude” about abortion, gay sexual relationships & artificial birth control, have been at odds for a long time, nor is it an issue only in the Catholic Church. The Episcopalian Church is in BIG trouble because of some of the same differences

You sure must be hanging around with a different strain of Catholics than I do. Cuz none fit that mold. Or are you saying this from what “you have heard”. Dontt forget, much bull is put out by those who like to discredit the Church,

As far as “none of us follow a different dogma”, I’m not sure about your assertion. I see the families at Novus Ordo Masses enter with their 2 children…exactly 2 children…& wonder. I hear my grown children’s friends say, “well, what was she to do?”, when told of a college girl who had an abortion. And their attitude towards gay sex is that it is none of their business. They seem to have no problem exposing their young children to this kind of “family life” as the pastor in my Novus Ordo parish put it. Yep, on the feast of the Holy Family he spoke about the different forms of “family” today…grandparents raising grandchildren & gay couples with adopted children as if they were no different than the conventional husband/wife/chidren families.

If my pastor was preaching all these as accepted families by the Church today, I would have walked out during the homily even if I were vested and sitting in the sanctuary. . Or was he saying this was the type families the liberal, progressive, secular society is pushing. There is a huge gap between the two.

Many of us feel strongly about the fact that our grown children, raised as Catholics, have never been inside an actual confessional, never taken part in a Novena, have never heard the Litany of the Saints, have attended many Seder meals but never taken Hot Cross Buns to the nuns in the convent on Easter Week (I think that this was a local custom), are very “iffy” on the Communion of Saints & the Mass as a Sacrifice/Communal meal…this list could go on & on. Usually, when I have mentioned these things during the past 40 yrs., I’ve been ridiculed. Not all Novus Ordo Catholics are as kind & agreeable as you. (Not all Trads are either)>

The only thing I will say here is that as parents, you and your wife are your children’s first teachers. That teaching goes further than dropping them off for CCD and then thinking your obligation has been fulfilled. I am not making a judgment, but an observation, as so many parents complain about this and upon questioning we find that they did not take an active part in instructing their own children at home. That is not the fault of the church, but of the parents.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[Ghoti]

As far as “none of us follow a different dogma”, I’m not sure about your assertion. I see the families at Novus Ordo Masses enter with their 2 children…exactly 2 children…& wonder.

I wonder, too. Please tell me what is the Catholic minimum for number of children without incurring comment (or notice) from others? I need to know if I must report my parents to the CDF for letting the side down – as I’m an only child.

I wonder how many people were watching my parents at their Novus Ordo enter with their one child…exactly one child…and “wondering”…

Such scandal.

 

[elts1956]

I agree with you Deacon Ed, that the we are all Catholics & should be careful with the terms we use. It would be ideal if we all agreed on how to practice our Catholic faith. However, this divide between those who crave the more traditional, those who believe that our Catholic culture is being lost, those who would like to attend a Novena one more time before they die…and…those who love the more modern practices, have an “understanding attitude” about abortion, gay sexual relationships & artificial birth control, have been at odds for a long time, nor is it an issue only in the Catholic Church. The Episcopalian Church is in BIG trouble because of some of the same differences

That is DEFINITELY your right & the Novus Ordo is the choice of most Catholics, right now. It is a valid Mass & has been called the ordinary Mass by the Pope, himself.

As far as “none of us follow a different dogma”, I’m not sure about your assertion. I see the families at Novus Ordo Masses enter with their 2 children…exactly 2 children…& wonder. I hear my grown children’s friends say, “well, what was she to do?”, when told of a college girl who had an abortion. And their attitude towards gay sex is that it is none of their business. They seem to have no problem exposing their young children to this kind of “family life” as the pastor in my Novus Ordo parish put it. Yep, on the feast of the Holy Family he spoke about the different forms of “family” today…grandparents raising grandchildren & gay couples with adopted children as if they were no different than the conventional husband/wife/chidren families.

Many of us feel strongly about the fact that our grown children, raised as Catholics, have never been inside an actual confessional, never taken part in a Novena, have never heard the Litany of the Saints, have attended many Seder meals but never taken Hot Cross Buns to the nuns in the convent on Easter Week (I think that this was a local custom), are very “iffy” on the Communion of Saints & the Mass as a Sacrifice/Communal meal…this list could go on & on. Usually, when I have mentioned these things during the past 40 yrs., I’ve been ridiculed. Not all Novus Ordo Catholics are as kind & agreeable as you. (Not all Trads are either)>

I have never attended a Seder meal, but I would like to do so. After all, this is the form in which Our Lord said the Last Supper.

However, I agree many, many things have changed in our Catholic World. Even some of my friends who were raised in strict Catholic families in the 40s and 50s are pro choice regarding abortion. This I will never understand.

As far as taking the Hot Cross Buns to the sisters in the convent, I think that was a beautiful custom, but now we have few teaching sisters. Perhaps instead of taking them to the sisters at Easter, if there are none around, we could make an effort to take some to our neighbors. Keep the traditions alive. As far as confession goes, we have a choice of face to face, or behind a curtain. So there isn’t much difference in that, that I can see.

Would your priest be willing to hold a Novena? Could you say the Litany of the Saints with your children, or grandchildren? Keep the traditions alive, even they are held special only in the family.

As far as families with only two children, my husband and I have only two children, one of which is adopted. I was able to carry only one live child because of negative blood type. So if you see a family with only two children, artificial birth control may not be the reason. they have “only two”,

We need to help the unmarried pregnant girls. If they know there is a place to which they can turn, maybe people wouldn’t be saying, “What was she supposed to do”? We as Catholics need to become more involved in groups such as Birthright, collect maternity and baby clothing for unmarried girls who do decide to have their baby. If each family in a parish adopted one unmarried pregnant girl into their home, giving her and her baby the love, understanding and monetary help she may not be getting from anyone else, perhaps the number of abortions would diminish.

We can’t only talk about the disappearance of traditions we hold dear, we have to personally do something about it, even if it is only in our own homes.

 

[Cat]

It seems to me that we are mixing mindsets here.

The impression that I’m getting from CAF posters is:

EF = pro-life, anti-ABC, anti-gay marriage, anti-liberal theology (e.g., Christ didn’t really rise from the dead, the spirit of what He taught is alive today in the world). etc.

OF = pro-abortion, pro-contraception, pro-homosexual rights, pro-liberal theology, etc.

This makes no sense at all!

I personally think that there are probably TLMers who are also “liberal” in their politics, their theology, etc. It seems to me that some of the stuff that goes on in a TLM would appeal to a “New Age” mindset–the Latin, the chanting, etc. It’s so “spiritual” compared to the staid, unadorned NO Mass. Goths in particular would enjoy a Latin Mass.

A Mass preference does not determine preferences in politics and theology. I know plenty of Catholics who attend the OFs in our diocese, and these people are plenty conservative in both their politics and their theology.

And I know plenty of people who attend the OF who have huge families and still adding on, just as I know people who attend the TLM in our city who have two kids.

I think it’s foolish to assume that someone will hold certain political and theology viewpoints just because of their Mass preference.

For that matter, I think it’s foolish to assume that just because someone espouses orthodox theology that they will also hold political conservative views. I know PLENTY of people who are Catholic who consider themselves loyal to the Church theologically who are totally liberal when it comes to their politics, and I know even more people who are opposed to various Catholic teachings who are extremely conservative politically.

We just can’t pigeon-hole people.

 

[brotherhrolf]

I’m not sure about your assertion. I see the families at Novus Ordo Masses enter with their 2 children…exactly 2 children…& wonder.

Perhaps you would like to hear about the number of children we lost through miscarriage. I have two sons but I would give anything to hold my other children.