People who say The Church doesn't Change its Teachings

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As I am slowly getting a better understanding of the Catholic Faith, I Been Noticing People here, who are claiming The Church doesn’t change its teachings. If this is true; why do so many people appear to not be following the teachings of The Church?

I really want to be Catholic, it is just that I find all of this a little dis-heartening.
 
Welcome Jordann! The Church’s teachings are in many different areas - it’s not only about sex - to me as a single at any rate.

Some people have a genuine quandary from a practical point of view about a specific point. If someone misinterprets that as wilful rebellion, they may retort with “well I’m rebelling then” even if they weren’t. The best thing in these situations is to carry on looking for all the things in Catholic teaching they can go with because God will help them sort out the other thing in His time with them.

For some people being Catholic is an identity because it was drummed into them that “once a Catholic always a Catholic” but not necessarily enough of the detail, like conversion of heart, the relationship with Jesus, works as fruit of Holy Spirit power, the meditating on Holy Scripture . . .

The trend to catechise Catholics less began 60 to 80 years ago so sadly there are many with gaps in their concept. Some like me have gone through frictions with church members - who are only human after all - and I have held onto my qualms as a result for too long.

May your journey be very fruitful !!! 🙂
 
As I am slowly getting a better understanding of the Catholic Faith, I Been Noticing People here, who are claiming The Church doesn’t change its teachings. If this is true; why do so many people appear to not be following the teachings of The Church?

I really want to be Catholic, it is just that I find all of this a little dis-heartening.
For the same reason don’t follow any group of rules or laws; they make the decision not to. As with civil laws, a person refusing to follow the law doesn’t affect the law, it only affects the person. When a person does not follow God’s laws, those laws do not change, those people just do damage to their souls.

Welcome to the forums! We’re happy to have you ^^
 
How can we tell the difference between a doctrine and a discipline?
 
As I am slowly getting a better understanding of the Catholic Faith, I Been Noticing People here, who are claiming The Church doesn’t change its teachings. If this is true; why do so many people appear to not be following the teachings of The Church?

I really want to be Catholic, it is just that I find all of this a little dis-heartening.
Because we’re fallen and have a tendency to do what we want rather than what we know is right.
How can we tell the difference between a doctrine and a discipline?
See catholic.com/magazine/articles/is-it-a-doctrine-or-a-discipline.

The fastest answer is that the Church will tell us, eventually.

In more depth, disciplines are rules made because the Church thinks them good at the moment. They generally refer to the specific ways in which the Church thinks it is good to live according to what it knows to be true and the current state of the world.

Doctrines are statements of principle, that, once made, cannot be unmade (they can be extended).

For example, the statement “it is objectively wrong to receive communion while in a state of mortal sin” is not a rule, it is a statement of fact, a doctrine. Then there are many rules relating to this (when a priest can and cannot deny communion to a person if that person presents himself vs when that person should not present himself, etc).

The discipline of the celibate priesthood is a discipline because it does not say that priests cannot be married, only that the Church (ordinarily) only ordains single men who will remain so (the mere fact that there are exceptions to the rule shows that it is not a doctrine that priests cannot be married).

The male only priesthood is a doctrine because it does not say merely that the Church chooses not to ordain women at this time, but that it is impossible for it to do so.

Etc.
 
What I am having trouble understanding; does the Catholic Church teach it is a sin to not believe the doctrines of The Church and do we go to hell for that?
 
The Church maintains a hierarchical system of values which must change somewhat as society changes. For example, during the Papacy of John Paul II, capitalism was valued quite high, today we have Pope Francis preaching that poverty must be eliminated. Here we see a shift in the hierarchy in that the value of capitalism is not being emphasized as much as humanitarian values.

I sense that there are quite a few here on CAF that do not like this shift, but I see it as God’s love for all people. I’m neither liberal or conservative, but humanitarian.
 
What I am having trouble understanding; does the Catholic Church teach it is a sin to not believe the doctrines of The Church and do we go to hell for that?
I will leave for others to answer these points but just say in passing that there is a distinction between grave matter and mortal sin. I’m not exactly sure how this distinction comes in here.

The Holy Spirit will help and guide you all right. 🙂
 
…The Church doesn’t change its teachings. If this is true; why do so many people appear to not be following the teachings of The Church?
The Church’s doctrine does not change, and yet people can still ignore it. A lack of doctrinal change does not imply an inability on the part of the faithful to be disobedient.
 
What I am having trouble understanding; does the Catholic Church teach it is a sin to not believe the doctrines of The Church and do we go to hell for that?
It is objectively offensive to God to not believe in revealed truth. How do we know what is revealed truth? We look to the Magisterium. Here is a little article that might help: ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/4LEVELS.TXT

Now, while something might be objectively offensive to God, we can’t read people’s minds, and we can’t see into their hearts. Therefore, we cannot state whether or not certain persons are subjectively guilty for any particular objective sin they happen to commit. What we can and must do, however, is warn them that their behavior is dangerous and could lead to their rejecting God, and therefore to damnation.

I would also add that a major reason that certain Catholics reject certain teachings of the Church is quite simply that they are Modernists, and Modernism is also known as the synthesis of all heresies*. Modernism is rooted in immanentism, which is basically the perspective that we should judge religious truths based on how they make us feel, and that we should conform God to our own preferences and tastes, rather than submit to His own revelation of Himself.

Immanentism is a major problem in the Church, and in society at large. Understanding this, IMO, is a key to understanding our position in the modern age.

*Incidentally, why is Modernism called the synthesis of all heresies? Because its immanentism leads to a curious situation: line 100 Catholics up and ask them which doctrines they accept and which they reject, and you’ll probably see every single teaching of the Church rejected between the members of this group. This man will deny this teaching, this woman will deny that one, and, between them all, you’ll have a massive mess.
 
Having to believe doctrine before being able to unite with God is a misconception that I think has been drilled into many Catholics.

If you really think about it, the Creed contains teachings about Jesus, but not actually the teachings “of” Jesus, except for those structural items that Church has outlined in the creed.

Jesus said “whoever believes in me” note He did not say, “whoever believes what is taught about me.”

John 5:24 we have: “Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes in the one who sent me has eternal life and will not come to condemnation, but has passed from death to life.”

So here it’s “believe in the one who sent me…” again, not in the doctrine thereabout. In other references, it is about the one who “believes in me” in other examples.

One of the reasons I make this point, is that Paul was frustrated with people who were arguing about the quality of their baptism based on who did the baptism. Plus remember back then very few people were even literate, and they were not educated. So it would be kind of unfair for God to expect them to be scholars… and yet we seem to have taken combative roles to “protect” our own teachings, against other who are also perhaps lovers of Christ but think slightly differently about this or that dotted I or crossed T.

Here’s what Paul was saying about those who were arguing:

1 Cor 1:17
For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with the wisdom of human eloquence, so that the cross of Christ might not be emptied of its meaning.

Paul continues:

1 Cor 1:18-25
The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the learning of the learned I will set aside.”

Where is the wise one? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made the wisdom of the world foolish? For since in the wisdom of God the world did not come to know God through wisdom, it was the will of God through the foolishness of the proclamation to save those who have faith. For Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those who are called, Jews and Greeks alike, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

In general, we have become as a whole, giving utmost importance to “head knowledge” and intellectualizing about God, when these are not the key teachings of Jesus.

It kind of surprises me how frequently 1 Cor 13 is read at weddings – and not just Catholic – and yet we place our hope in everlasting life on becoming better and better at all these things in an effort to please God. This is what they had before Jesus – believe and say the right things and do the right things to please God, but oops sorry that is impossible for man with original sin. So they were kind of stuck until Jesus came to show that the law itself is not capable of defining or requiring “love” per se, by allowing an innocent man to be condemned by the law – thus He ended the power of the “law of sin and death” that Paul refers to in Romans.

How can anybody possibly read the following, and continue to conclude that a fervent study of the academic teachings about God are what “saves” us?

1 Cor 13
1 If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal. 2 **And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. **3 If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, [love] is not pompous, it is not inflated, 5 it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury, 6 it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8 Love never fails.** If there are prophecies, they will be brought to nothing; if tongues, they will cease; if knowledge, it will be brought to nothing.** 9 For we know partially and we prophesy partially, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I used to talk as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I put aside childish things. 12 At present we see indistinctly, as in a mirror, but then face to face. At present I know partially; then I shall know fully, as I am fully known. 13 So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Here Paul specifically orders “love” as greater than “faith” as well. Putting all this together, I conclude that although the teachings are helpful and useful toward formation of conscience, that it is a different dimension than the “love” dimension that Jesus came to teach about. They had theology before Jesus, but never a clear example of what “love” is.
 
It is objectively offensive to God to not believe in revealed truth. How do we know what is revealed truth? We look to the Magisterium. Here is a little article that might help: ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/4LEVELS.TXT

Now, while something might be objectively offensive to God, we can’t read people’s minds, and we can’t see into their hearts. Therefore, we cannot state whether or not certain persons are subjectively guilty for any particular objective sin they happen to commit. What we can and must do, however, is warn them that their behavior is dangerous and could lead to their rejecting God, and therefore to damnation.

I would also add that a major reason that certain Catholics reject certain teachings of the Church is quite simply that they are Modernists, and Modernism is also known as the synthesis of all heresies*. Modernism is rooted in immanentism, which is basically the perspective that we should judge religious truths based on how they make us feel, and that we should conform God to our own preferences and tastes, rather than submit to His own revelation of Himself.

Immanentism is a major problem in the Church, and in society at large. Understanding this, IMO, is a key to understanding our position in the modern age.
That was a rather interesting read. However, immanentism, it would seem to me, looks like it stems from something even more entrenched than that. You remember the Old Testament stories? Aaron and Miriam were not all that happy that Moses was the one who gets to speak for God either. They were not exactly happy that Moses was the one who God revealed Himself to. Think about all the people in this society who couldn’t stand the Church and its doctrines. Or, they will take some of the doctrines but not all of them. They are the Aaron’s, the Miriam’s, of this world.
 
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