People with gender identity issues and sex change surgeries!

[StAnastasia]

StAnastasia; I wish you all Lord’s blessings and I thank you for the chat.

Thank you – Happy and Blessed Advent!

StAnastasia

 

[BlueShadow123]

You know, now that I think about it, some animals must suffer from the same problem, but for them its much different, as they don’t think like us. So we’d simply think they were homosexuals because of their behavior, but I’m sure they suffer from gender identity issues too. they probably just don’t care because they don’t have the mentality we do.

 

[StAnastasia]

You know, now that I think about it, some animals must suffer from the same problem, but for them its much different, as they don’t think like us. So we’d simply think they were homosexuals because of their behavior, but I’m sure they suffer from gender identity issues too. they probably just don’t care because they don’t have the mentality we do.

Let’s see – I have a population of squirrels in my oak trees. None that I know of are transgendered, but I don’t speak to them very often.

 

[BlueShadow123]

Let’s see – I have a population of squirrels in my oak trees. None that I know of are transgendered, but I don’t speak to them very often.

Well they say animals can be gay, so why wouldn’t they be able to have gender identity problem? they just wouldn’t understand it because they don’t have that mentality.

 

[jmcrae]

Well they say animals can be gay, so why wouldn’t they be able to have gender identity problem? they just wouldn’t understand it because they don’t have that mentality.

Animals have no ability to reflect on themselves in the abstract at all, so it would be impossible for them to have any kind of identity issues - they don’t perceive themselves at all, let alone “as” anything other than what they actually are.

Also, as I understand it, animals that appear to be “homosexual” are actually having sex (or trying to have sex) with pretty much anything they encounter, including different species, and inanimate objects. They aren’t attracted specifically to animals of their own species that are of the same sex - they also have sex with their own species in the opposite sex, as well.

 

[BlueShadow123]

Animals have no ability to reflect on themselves in the abstract at all, so it would be impossible for them to have any kind of identity issues - they don’t perceive themselves at all, let alone “as” anything other than what they actually are.

Also, as I understand it, animals that appear to be “homosexual” are actually having sex (or trying to have sex) with pretty much anything they encounter, including different species, and inanimate objects. They aren’t attracted specifically to animals of their own species that are of the same sex - they also have sex with their own species in the opposite sex, as well.

Yeah I know that is my point when I said they are homosexual and have some sort of gender problem. Now obviously identity problem is the wrong word to use because they don’t have that mentality. But I bet you some of them are in the ‘wrong’ body. They don’t realize it though so that is another reason why they would participate in homosexual behavior. Gender issue is different than homosexuality. I don’t know if you get what im saying.

 

[jmcrae]

I don’t know if you get what im saying.

Yes, I get what you’re saying, but in a case like what you are describing, the animal would only be attracted to have sex with other animals of the same species that are of the same sex.

This isn’t what happens, though. What actually happens is that these animals who are having sex with other animals of the same species and the same sex, are also having sex with everything else, including the opposite sex of their own species, and including inanimate objects.

So, it’s not that they are homosexual, as such, but just that their sex hormones are in overdrive, they are not differentiating at all between the sexes or even between species, and they will have sex with absolutely anything.

 

[BlueShadow123]

Yes, I get what you’re saying, but in a case like what you are describing, the animal would only be attracted to have sex with other animals of the same species that are of the same sex.

This isn’t what happens, though. What actually happens is that these animals who are having sex with other animals of the same species and the same sex, are also having sex with everything else, including the opposite sex of their own species, and including inanimate objects.

So, it’s not that they are homosexual, as such, but just that their sex hormones are in overdrive, they are not differentiating at all between the sexes or even between species, and they will have sex with absolutely anything.

I know. I believe most animals will reproduce. Thats just what they do, lol. Some don’t but that is rare.

My boy dogs try to, well you know, do the act to eachother, but they are not homosexual dogs. They are doing this for dominance. They always do this when they get aggressive. Thats another thing, many animals do it for dominance too, just like some straight men dominate another man by well, having sex with him as an act of ‘whose boss’. This happens in prison. No doubt, it could also be because they are or feel they are ‘deprived’ of sex, but many times its a sign of dominance.

 

[StAnastasia]

just like some straight men dominate another man by well, having sex with him as an act of ‘whose boss’. This happens in prison. No doubt, it could also be because they are or feel they are ‘deprived’ of sex, but many times its a sign of dominance.

That I just don’t understand. Homosexuality I certainly understand, but heterosexual switch hitting makes no psychological sense to me.

 

[BlueShadow123]

That I just don’t understand. Homosexuality I certainly understand, but heterosexual switch hitting makes no psychological sense to me.

You didn’t know that rape happens a lot in prison?

Seriously? Well, its true.

Heterosexual men raping other men in prison. Some do it because they have no other way to get off, some do it as an act of violence and dominance. Like raping the ‘new’ guy to show him whose boss.

Its sad, but it definitely happens.

 

[StAnastasia]

You didn’t know that rape happens a lot in prison? Seriously? Well, its true.

Did I give any indication at all that I didn’t know prison rape happens?

 

[BlueShadow123]

Did I give any indication at all that I didn’t know prison rape happens?

" but heterosexual switch hitting makes no psychological sense to me"

They are not switching necessarily. They are just either getting off in whatever way they can, or showing it as an act of violence/dominance.

 

[StAnastasia]

" but heterosexual switch hitting makes no psychological sense to me" They are not switching necessarily. They are just either getting off in whatever way they can, or showing it as an act of violence/dominance.

By “switch hitting” I am referring to heterosexual males having sexual relations with other males. And I certainly know it has to do with violence and dominance.

 

[BlueShadow123]

By “switch hitting” I am referring to heterosexual males having sexual relations with other males. And I certainly know it has to do with violence and dominance.

Ok well thats the point.

 

[Carmel_B]

The Church appears to define gender through genetics.

Case closed. )

Correct although the Magisterium has not spoken on the issue.

The Indonesian Catholic Bishops have made a statement that anyone with 2 X chromosomes is female by definition all others are male so this man is male and the descriptions of him as female are erroneous

A 46,XY mother who developed as a normal woman underwent spontaneous puberty, reached menarche, menstruated regularly, experienced two unassisted pregnancies, and gave birth to a 46,XY daughter with complete gonadal dysgenesis. - J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2008 Jan;93(1):182-9. Epub 2007

This man gave birth to a son through objectively disordered homosexual intercourse that is the Church’s teaching end statement. All people with 47,XXY chromosomes are also female even though they may look male. Those people with 45,X chromosomes are male even though they look female.

 

[Carmel_B]

Because women do not have a penis. Men have a penis…

That is not true even if you rebel against God and go against Church teaching that having 2 X chromosomes defines femininity.

Women born with Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia (CAH) have masculinised genitalia. This can vary from a macroclitoris to a phallus several inches long. It is usual for surgeons to correct the problem by removal of the offending organ shortly after birth which also has the desirable effect of removing the pleasure from the sexual act so removing much of the temptation for fornication or lesbianism (many of these women give themselves over to this abominable and detestable practice).

Recently medical science has come up with a breakthrough that prevents this problem though at the cost of lowering life expectancy and decreasing the patients intelligence.

Pregnant women are being offered an experimental medication which reduces the risk of “ambiguous genitalia” in unborn children, drawing criticism from bioethicists.

Dr Alice Dreger and colleagues of Northwestern University in Chicago have slammed the controversial practice of giving the steroid dexamethasone (dex) to pregnant women concerned their daughter may have congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH).

CAH is an inherited condition that affects the adrenal glands. High exposure to androgens (masculinising hormones) in the womb can cause girls to develop symptoms such as ambiguous genitalia, facial hair and a deep voice.

In an essay published on the Bioethics Forum website, Dr Dreger and her colleagues argued “off-label” prenatal use of the steroid should be used in controlled clinical trials only.

She also took aim at Dr Maria New, paediatric endocrinologist of Mount Sinai Medical Centre in New York, and her colleague, Columbia University psychologist Dr Heino Meyer-Bahlburg, who suggest administering dexamethasone to pregnant women may prevent some of the symptoms of CAH — including homosexuality.

 

[Carmel_B]

Efforts should be directed toward the development of effective therapy for adolescents and adults. The fact that such therapy is not described extensively in the literature and therefore is not widely available, and that these patients resist therapeutic interventions, does not justify giving in to the demand for surgical mutilation…

This does not appear to be the Church’s teaching on the subject as there is a letter sent sub secretum to the bishops saying that such surgery is morally permissible in extreme cases.

The fact that lobotomy leucotomy electro-convulsive therapy psychoanalysis group therapy cognitive therapy gestalt therapy spirit release therapy exorcism,psychotropic drugs and especially operant condition using beatings and electric shocks to the eyeballs and genitalia have been tried on over 50,000 patients over 60 years with zero proven successes in long-term follow-up just means we haven’t tried hard enough. That the experimentation on human subjects was largely abandoned due to liberalist and secular humanist “ethics concerns” and a 50%+ fatality rate after only 50 years is premature and unfortunate. There is now comparatively little experimentation going on compared to the 40’s 50’s 60’s and 70’s and we need a constant flow of new subjects as they die so quickly so we have no scientifically credible sample size over the long term.

As former Vatican Advisor on Sexuality Dr Paul McHugh said in his book “psychiatric misadventures” :

We need to know how to prevent such sadness, indeed horror. We have to learn how to manage this condition as a mental disorder when we fail to prevent it. If it depends on child rearing, then let’s hear about its inner dynamics so that parents can be taught
to guide their children properly. If it is an aspect of confusion tied to homosexuality, we need to understand its nature and exactly how to manage it as a manifestation of serious mental disorder among homosexual individuals. But instead of attempting to learn enough to accomplish these worthy goals, psychiatrists collaborated in a exercise of folly with distressed people during a time when “do your own thing” had something akin to the force of a command.
As physicians, psychiatrists, when they give in to this, abandon the role of protecting patients from their symptoms and become little more than technicians working on behalf of a cultural force.

It is ideologically unacceptable that there be no other cure. We know there must be a way we just haven’t found it yet so experimentation should be resumed and even expanded regardless of the patients expressed wishes as they are insane by definition so unable to either give or withhold consent.

It is tragic that so many patients die during therapy but this article states a strong case that it is better that that happen than that we be complicit in their sin by mutilating them.

As was said on Catholic Exchange in exactly this situation:

Now I am going to say something that may seem harsh but remember I am talking to you about objective reality – where the rubber meets the road. It is better to die than to offend God. It would have been better for you to have given your life to stay in obedience to God.
…
For all you know, God may have given you peace and healed you. We can’t know that, but we can see some of the fruit of the course of action you did pursue.

For one thing you have greater physical health — but at the cost of being an example to others that physical health is worth breaking God’s law.

 

[RichP]

Women born with Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia (CAH) have masculinised genitalia. This can vary from a macroclitoris to a phallus several inches long. It is usual for surgeons to correct the problem by removal of the offending organ shortly after birth which also has the desirable effect of removing the pleasure from the sexual act so removing much of the temptation for fornication or lesbianism (many of these women give themselves over to this abominable and detestable practice).

People with any intersex condition including CAH should not be confused with people GID. They are completely different. Jesus recognized that some people might be intersex in Matthew 19:12.

 

[Carmel_B]

People with any intersex condition including CAH should not be confused with people GID. They are completely different. Jesus recognized that some people might be intersex in Matthew 19:12.

And Isaiah 56:3-5 dictates how they should behave yes I know but “Gender Identity Disorder” involves intersexed anatomy and appears to be caused by it in every case that we’ve ever examined.

Male–to–female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus. Kruiver et al J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2000) 85:2034–2041

The present findings of somatostatin neuronal sex differences in the BSTc and its sex reversal in the transsexual brain clearly support the paradigm that in transsexuals sexual differentiation of the brain and genitals may go into opposite directions and point to a neurobiological basis of gender identity disorder.

White matter microstructure in female to male transsexuals before cross-sex hormonal treatment. A diffusion tensor imaging study. - Rametti et al, J Psychiatr Res. 2010 Jun 8.

CONCLUSIONS: Our results show that the white matter microstructure pattern in untreated FtM transsexuals is closer to the pattern of subjects who share their gender identity (males) than those who share their biological sex (females). Our results provide evidence for an inherent difference in the brain structure of FtM transsexuals.

Biological and Psychosocial Correlates of Adult Gender‐Variant Identities: a Review by J.F.Veale & D.E.Clarke, Personality and Individual Differences (2009) 48(4), 357-366

We conclude that biological factors, especially prenatal androgen levels, play a role in the development of a gender-variant identity and it is likely that psychosocial variables play a role in interaction with these factors.

Sexual differentiation of the human brain in relation to gender identity and sexual orientation D.Swaab & A.Garcia-Fulgaras Functional Neurology, Jan-Mar 2009:

One person we studied had untreated male gender dysphoria (S7), took no hormones and kept his transsexual feelings under wraps. He appeared to have a large INAH3 volume - in the male range - but a female INAH3 number of neurons (68) and a female BSTc somatostatin neuron number (95). Hence, this individual’s hypothalamic characteristics were mid-way between male and female values

Regional gray matter variation in male-to-female transsexualism. by Luders et al Neuroimage. 2009 Jul 15;46(4):904-7.

We analyzed MRI data of 24 male-to-female (MTF) transsexuals not yet treated with cross-sex hormones in order to determine whether gray matter volumes in MTF transsexuals more closely resemble people who share their biological sex (30 control men), or people who share their gender identity (30 control women). Results revealed that regional gray matter variation in MTF transsexuals is more similar to the pattern found in men than in women. However, MTF transsexuals show a significantly larger volume of regional gray matter in the right putamen compared to men. These findings provide new evidence that transsexualism is associated with distinct cerebral pattern, which supports the assumption that brain anatomy plays a role in gender identity.

These people have anatomy that is not completely male and not completely female the very definition of “Intersexed”. Holy Mother Church has stated that all those with 2 X chromosomes are female and all others are male so actual anatomy is irrelevant to the issue and we must abide by that no matter what shape their bodies are nor how they think. They like all of us must Obey with no room for argument as there are evil spirits whose task is to lead us astray with confusing “facts” which apparently contradict Church teachings.

 

[ActuallyAquinas]

Setting aside DNA, the sex of embryos is not fully formed at conception but later in pregnancy. That’s the normal course of events. I suppose that in principle it is possible that some people don’t have their sex fully formed at birth and are thus as an objective matter of fact, indeterminate in sex. There are “intersex” individuals where gender is not clear, even when taking DNA account. But it’s not clear to me which if any of these cases are actually indeterminate in sex or are just hard to discern. But assuming there are such genuine cases, I suppose in those exceptional cases God would form the sex of the individual later as they come to choose it and be formed into it.

Well even if someone is born with both external sexual organs, they actual sex of the person can be figured out by looking at there chromosomes to see if they are a man that happens have to have female sexual organs or if it is a female that has male sexual organs. This needs to be looked at to figure out what kind of corrective surgery would need to be done.