Percentage of Bishops implicit in Cover-Ups?

[Christianus_Dei]

What is the percentage of Bishops implicit in the Cover-ups concerning the abuse scandals? And I heard that one of the reasons they covered it up was that they thought the Priests involved could be psychologically cured.

I just want to know, I’m tired of feeling animosity towards my Church. I love my religion, but I can’t control my emotions, and the culture has pounded it into my head that a large percentage of the Bishops are corrupt enablers to the point where I feel it’s true, although I do not let my emotions control my thoughts on things like this. So what is the truth?

 

[SonSearcher]

The truth is that scandal has always afflicted the Church, as it is a divinely inspired institution carried out by humans. We should always pray for it.

You know… I know of a Lutheran Minister and a public school teacher personally who were accused and arrested for sexual abuse. Never knew a Catholic Priest that did the same thing.

I think we should talk about percentage of “media coverage” that these abuses get.

Satan is good at what he does.

Turn off the TV. Be careful on the internet. Read more Saints. Trust in God.

 

[Christianus_Dei]

No, the point was that I’m tired of feeling that our Bishops, the individual people in our Church, are responsible for something I know they’re not. I don’t listen to the media, they’ve highly affected what I feel about certain things in the church, but not how I think about it. It used to be that way about the Crusades, but that’s been fixed.

 

[SonSearcher]

No, the point was that I’m tired of feeling that our Bishops, the individual people in our Church, are responsible for something I know they’re not. I don’t listen to the media, they’ve highly affected what I feel about certain things in the church, but not how I think about it. It used to be that way about the Crusades, but that’s been fixed.

No offense but if you are tired of feeling that way, and you know it is a big lie…then why not just get over it?

It seems like a somewhat melodramatic position.

 

[JamesCaruso]

The Church is larger than the people in it. Keep your eye on the Church, not the people in it, if that makes any sense. People err; the Church does not err. We have God’s promise on that.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Regarding accused priests being sent to psychologists, here is some information

Catholic league

That was the drill of the day: after being treated, the patient (I prefer the term offender) returns to work. It’s still the drill of the day in many secular quarters today, particularly in the public schools. A more hard-line approach, obviously, makes more sense, but the therapeutic industry is very powerful.

The Times

Why did it fall into disuse and disrespect? It was because priests and bishops began to regard it as being overly legalistic and too focused on punishment. They decided it lacked compassion. Therefore, they stopped using it. No longer did priests accused of child abuse face a canonical trial and the possibility of “defrocking”. Instead, and with disastrous consequences, they were sent for therapy and then, “cured”, they were reassigned to ministry.

Cnn opinion

Why, for example, are the psychologists and psychiatrists who pledged to “fix” abusers treated so lightly? After all, employers from the corporate world to the Catholic Church were told over and over again that therapy works and to give the offender a second chance.

Catholic education resource center

In 1994, the Ad Hoc Committee on Sexual Abuse issued guidelines to the nation’s then 191 dioceses to help them develop policies to deal with the problem of sexual abuse of minors. Almost all dioceses responded and developed their own policies (USCCB document: Guidelines for dealing with Child Sexual Abuse, 1993-1994). By this time, pedophilia was recognized as a disorder that could not be cured, and a problem that was becoming more prevalent due to the increase of pornography. Before 1994, bishops took their cue from experts in the psychiatric profession who believed pedophilia could be successfully treated. Priests guilty of sexual abuse were sent to one of several treatment facilities across the United States. Bishops often relied upon the judgments of experts in determining whether priests were fit for ministry. This doesn’t mitigate the negligence on the part of some in the hierarchy, but it does offer some insight.

I do not think I have heard a statistic for how many Bishops covered it up

Clinical volunteer associate professor at Stanford University and of Santa Clara University, Dr Thomas Plante says

approximately 4% of priests during the past half century (and mostly in the 1960s and 1970s) have had a sexual experience with a minor’ which 'is consistent with male clergy from other religious traditions and is significantly lower than the general adult male population which may double these numbers

psychwww.com/psyrelig/plante.html

psychologytoday.com/files/attachments/34033/pp3article.pdf

Archbishop Silvano Maria Tomasi said in September 2009

We know now that in the last 50 years somewhere between 1.5% and 5% of the Catholic clergy has been involved in sexual abuse cases

webcast.un.org/ramgen/ondemand/conferences/unhrc/twelfth/hrc090922pm2-eng.rm?start=01:28:49&end=01:31:56

I guess that the percentage of Bishops who covered up must be less than 5% given the percent of clergy who abused. Can anybody make sense of that?

 

[Seeker1961]

The truth is that scandal has always afflicted the Church, as it is a divinely inspired institution carried out by humans. We should always pray for it.

You know… I know of a Lutheran Minister and a public school teacher personally who were accused and arrested for sexual abuse. Never knew a Catholic Priest that did the same thing.

I think we should talk about percentage of “media coverage” that these abuses get.

Satan is good at what he does.

Turn off the TV. Be careful on the internet. Read more Saints. Trust in God.

This argument is the same as “But MOOOMM, look what HE did!!!” Finding someone else that did something as bad or worse than you doesn’t make what you did any less wrong.

I don’t care if there was only ONE Bishop that protected an abuser. Doesn’t make it any less horrible.

I did know a Catholic Priest that did such a thing. He molested the son of a wonderful Catholic woman. Broke her heart, and did untold damage to the faith of the family-not to mention the damage to her son. You know where he is now?? Arizona, at a lovely “treatment” facility, with a championship golf course just down the road. He’s having a much nicer retirement than most people can dream of-all paid for by the diocese. He should be in jail, but for the actions of his Bishop.

It’s not “the media”, it’s the actions of sinful men.

Having said all that-to the OP’s point. MEN did this, not God. Don’t let God take the fall for their actions. I would hope that God is just as sickened by it as we are.

 

[wxornot]

No body ever answered the OP’s question. Merely danced around the truth.

 

[SonSearcher]

This argument is the same as “But MOOOMM, look what HE did!!!” Finding someone else that did something as bad or worse than you doesn’t make what you did any less wrong.

I don’t care if there was only ONE Bishop that protected an abuser. Doesn’t make it any less horrible.

I did know a Catholic Priest that did such a thing. He molested the son of a wonderful Catholic woman. Broke her heart, and did untold damage to the faith of the family-not to mention the damage to her son. You know where he is now?? Arizona, at a lovely “treatment” facility, with a championship golf course just down the road. He’s having a much nicer retirement than most people can dream of-all paid for by the diocese. He should be in jail, but for the actions of his Bishop.

It’s not “the media”, it’s the actions of sinful men.

Having said all that-to the OP’s point. MEN did this, not God. Don’t let God take the fall for their actions. I would hope that God is just as sickened by it as we are.

No you must be reading it wrong. I am saying statistically there is no difference in proportion to the child abuse rates of the world.

Here are some articles.

amconmag.com/articles/myth-of-a-catholic-crisis/

blogs.denverpost.com/hark/2010/05/25/scandal-creates-contempt-for-catholic-clergy/39/

themediareport.com/fast-facts/

Yeah I agree it isn’t the Church it is the individual that chooses evil… but lets put the blame squarely where it needs to be. On them individually.

How it is portrayed in the “media” is astonishingly disproportionate.

In regards to the last portion where you describe the priest at the treatment facility…

What if he goes to hell for his actions?

Matthew 5:44-45
But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you,
that you may be children of your heavenly Father, for he makes his sun rise on the bad and the good, and causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust.

 

[Crescentinus]

Last I checked, it’s a very small amount.
The average anti-Catholic polemicist has a tendency to turn the exceptions into the rules as long as it serves their ends!

 

[Lost_and_Found_1]

I think it’s fair and just to point out that pedophilia isn’t exclusive to the Catholic Church. We’re not making excuses for the actions of pedophile priests or bishops who covered up their actions.

 

[aux1]

I guess that the percentage of Bishops who covered up must be less than 5% given the percent of clergy who abused. Can anybody make sense of that?

Incorrect.

The Catholic Church in US has 41 thousand priests in 195 dioceses, which works out to 210 priests per ordinary on average. Now, assume for simplicity that a priest graduating from a seminary gets randomly assigned to one of these 195 dioceses. If 5% of graduates were abusers, then this results in them being evenly distributed between dioceses. This results in each diocese having 5% of abusers – i.e. 10 per diocese. That means that an average ordinary had 10 abusers in his jurisdiction.

This simple calculation is confirmed by the John Jay study which acknowledges that the problem was indeed widespread and affected more than 95 percent of the dioceses.

Read The faithful departed by Philip Lawler.

 

[aux1]

Yeah I agree it isn’t the Church it is the individual that chooses evil… but lets put the blame squarely where it needs to be. On them individually.

If an ordinary of a diocese, acting in accordance with the Canon Law, appoints an ecclesiastical judge to investigate the case, and said judge binds the victim to secrecy under the penalty of a latae excommunication, as requested by Crimen Sollicitationis, thereby preventing the victim from reporting the crime to the police, who should be blamed individually?

The ordinary? He’s acting in his official capacity in accordance with the Canon Law.
The judge? He’s acting in his official capacity executing the instruction.
The author of the instruction? He was acting in his official capacity when issuing the instruction.

Except for the abuser (*), I do not see anyone who is evil… I do, however, see an organizational culture which values paperwork, procedures, and rules higher than it values human life.

(*) I believe that most abusers were more clinically insane than evil.

 

[SonSearcher]

Incorrect.

The Catholic Church in US has 41 thousand priests in 195 dioceses, which works out to 210 priests per ordinary on average. Now, assume for simplicity that a priest graduating from a seminary gets randomly assigned to one of these 195 dioceses. If 5% of graduates were abusers, then this results in them being evenly distributed between dioceses. This results in each diocese having 5% of abusers – i.e. 10 per diocese. That means that an average ordinary had 10 abusers in his jurisdiction.

This simple calculation is confirmed by the John Jay study which acknowledges that the problem was indeed widespread and affected more than 95 percent of the dioceses.

Read The faithful departed by Philip Lawler.

In the John Jay study it states 4% of the priests and deacons were accused.

 

[SonSearcher]

Except for the abuser (*), I do not see anyone who is evil… I do, however, see an organizational culture which values paperwork, procedures, and rules higher than it values human life.

There may have been monumental difficulties in the “paperwork, procedures, and rules” but I cannot subscribe nor do I feel that you should expand this issue to the much broader idea that the Catholic Church value any of them more than Human Life as a whole.

I admit there is a hypocrisy in our argument on the side of the Church, “leave us alone about the abuse and listen to us on abortion. We value human life.”

But when you focus in on only the Church and their history of “abuse” and ignore every other institution on planet Earth in regards to their “abuse” and handling of said “abuses.”

Do the same people arguing about these abuses within the Church crusade(intended) also against public teachers in their forums? How about other liturgical Churches? How about the scouts? How about Penn State alumni forums?

 

[Seeker1961]

There may have been monumental difficulties in the “paperwork, procedures, and rules” but I cannot subscribe nor do I feel that you should expand this issue to the much broader idea that the Catholic Church value any of them more than Human Life as a whole.

I admit there is a hypocrisy in our argument on the side of the Church, “leave us alone about the abuse and listen to us on abortion. We value human life.”

But when you focus in on only the Church and their history of “abuse” and ignore every other institution on planet Earth in regards to their “abuse” and handling of said “abuses.”

Do the same people arguing about these abuses within the Church crusade(intended) also against public teachers in their forums? How about other liturgical Churches? How about the scouts? How about Penn State alumni forums?

Who said anyone only focuses on the Church? This is a Catholic forum so naturally the discussion is about the Church. I’ve been on forums about sports where we discussed the Sandusky case in excruciating detail, and law forums where individual cases of Pastors, Accoutants and Little League Coaches were discussed. I’ve also been on political forums where the interesting lives of politicians who spend their days talking about “family values” and their nights up to very un-family activities get discussed.

Talking about Priests on those forums doesn’t make the other abusers look less horrible any more than talking about other abusers here makes the Priests look less horrible.

 

[SonSearcher]

Who said anyone only focuses on the Church? This is a Catholic forum so naturally the discussion is about the Church. I’ve been on forums about sports where we discussed the Sandusky case in excruciating detail, and law forums where individual cases of Pastors, Accoutants and Little League Coaches were discussed. I’ve also been on political forums where the interesting lives of politicians who spend their days talking about “family values” and their nights up to very un-family activities get discussed.

Talking about Priests on those forums doesn’t make the other abusers look less horrible any more than talking about other abusers here makes the Priests look less horrible.

The dude brought up a book about the decline of Catholic culture in Boston, after stating the specific failures in the Catholic Church ordinaries. He was just focusing on the Catholic Church. I responded.

But regardless of the forum we are on this discussion always becomes an indictment of the Church as a whole. It even follows me. I… just being a follower of Jesus Christ become a target because I witness to belong to the Catholic Church. I never “see” it like this anywhere else… we don’t say “oh you go to Penn State you must support pedophilia.”

I am not asking to discuss priests on those forums. I am saying that there is a higher standard of attack on the Catholic Church than the other institutions that have displayed an equally disturbing trend that is affecting all aspects of society in every single country.

 

[Crescentinus]

Who said anyone only focuses on the Church? This is a Catholic forum so naturally the discussion is about the Church. I’ve been on forums about sports where we discussed the Sandusky case in excruciating detail, and law forums where individual cases of Pastors, Accoutants and Little League Coaches were discussed. I’ve also been on political forums where the interesting lives of politicians who spend their days talking about “family values” and their nights up to very un-family activities get discussed.

Talking about Priests on those forums doesn’t make the other abusers look less horrible any more than talking about other abusers here makes the Priests look less horrible.

I’ve been on places such as FaceBook, and a lot of these people single out Catholic priests. They rarely mention anyone else. Sadly, I’ve even seen people use the collective guilt argument against ALL Catholics.

 

[Seeker1961]

I’ve been on places such as FaceBook, and a lot of these people single out Catholic priests. They rarely mention anyone else. Sadly, I’ve even seen people use the collective guilt argument against ALL Catholics.

It’s not about the Bishops or the Priests-it’s about how we feel when people talk about them. We feel like we’re the one’s being attacked and it hurts us personally. Since I didn’t go to Penn State, people talking about Jerry Sandusky doesn’t bother me. Since I’m not a teacher, people talking about teachers doesn’t bother me. Our identity is in being Catholic, so when another Catholic is attacked, it becomes personal to us.

However, just because our personal buttons get pushed when the conversation turns to Priests and Bishops does not in any way mean that Priests and Bishops are all anyone talks about. It’s just that those stories are the ones that affect our emotions, so we remember them more than the other stories.

 

[Crescentinus]

It’s not about the Bishops or the Priests-it’s about how we feel when people talk about them. We feel like we’re the one’s being attacked and it hurts us personally. Since I didn’t go to Penn State, people talking about Jerry Sandusky doesn’t bother me. Since I’m not a teacher, people talking about teachers doesn’t bother me. Our identity is in being Catholic, so when another Catholic is attacked, it becomes personal to us.

However, just because our personal buttons get pushed when the conversation turns to Priests and Bishops does not in any way mean that Priests and Bishops are all anyone talks about. It’s just that those stories are the ones that affect our emotions, so we remember them more than the other stories.

It’s not even a case of pushing any personal buttons. When it comes to the topic of child molestation in general, the #1 target would be Catholics in general and Catholic clergy in particular. Last time I saw Sandusky’s name being mixed with child abuse was a joke comment in a YouTube video. The YouTube video in question is a music video of the song “Little Girls” by Oingo Boingo. By music video, I’m not talking about some AMV but the actual music video of the song itself.

I’ve seen the infamous collective guilt canard being used at Catholics on those sites.