Perceptions of Prayer

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Tis_Bearself

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When I returned to being an actively practicing Catholic a few years ago, I was happy to see that there seemed to be a renewed interest in prayer among many Catholics, including young people and people of all ages, not just older or traditional Catholics.

But recently I’ve become aware that there still seem to be Catholics, including some clergy, who set aside prayer or are even dismissive of prayer.

Some people seem to have a perception that
  • prayer is done mostly by old people or traditional people
  • prayer is done because it’s somehow “easier” than other things like “serving the community” or “serving the parish” or fasting, etc.
  • people who pray don’t do those other things like serve others, fast etc.
  • prayer is insincere, people are just rattling off a bunch of words, or trying to show off how much they pray
  • people offer “thoughts and prayers” instead of “real help”
  • prayer is inferior to reading Scripture (I consider Scripture reading to be a form of prayer, but apparently not everybody does)
  • praying in large groups (such as at a rally or outside an abortion clinic) is an embarrassing public show; prayer should be kept private and not discussed or made public
Has anyone else noticed these sorts of attitudes about prayer? If so, what can we do to counteract them, or is it necessary to do anything, except continue to pray?

I don’t think anyone should ever be put in a position of defending their own personal faith practices, unless they’re advocating something that appears contrary to Church teaching, which prayer obviously isn’t. But it seems like people think it’s okay to look down on those Catholics who emphasize prayer.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
people offer “thoughts and prayers” instead of “real help”
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I’ve been pondering on this one for a while, and it think it has some merit.
Of course, as Catholics, we have a concept of “work and pray”, but maybe this objection is useful as a challenge to us?

OTOH, I read an interesting article some years back that men who leave active ministry (both priests and ministers) had this one thing in common—they started their journey away from the faith by stopping or getting neglectful of praying. And by the time they left ministry they felt like a glorified social worker.
 
Perhaps it’s culturally dependent. I haven’t noticed a problem in the UK. Never.

I pray a lot, just to keep God in mind during my day…
 
I always thought that those men who ended up feeling like a “glorified social worker” had really joined the clergy more for the social justice aspect than for being a priest or a minister and ministering to people’s spiritual needs.

I know that many decades ago, young women would sometimes join religious orders because the orders provided them some opportunity to serve the community or the world in ways that they wouldn’t have been able to do then as a single or married woman. Later, when these opportunities opened up to lay women, you saw some women leaving the religious order and also a drop-off in vocations for those orders that focused on the social work rather than on the prayer.

In the Catholic priesthood, the main duty of a priest is to provide the sacraments, not be a social worker, although it’s certainly possible for a priest to also do a lot of charitable work or focus his ministry on a certain group in need of help, such as poor people in his parish.

Regarding the “thoughts and prayers” thing, I agree it’s a challenge, but I have never known a person who prayed seriously who wasn’t also participating in charitable giving, some form of sacrifice (whether it was fasting or offering up their physical pains/ sorrows), and often some other form of “helping”. I’ve never met anybody who said “OK I prayed, that’s all I have to do.”
 
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This past week, some of this seemed to be coming from the Holy Father. The whole “people recite prayers like parrots” thing. (As well as the daily Mass thing). So it’s hard not to place value on his statements.

Now I realize that those who are out to get him will cherry-pick his words and try to present him in a bad light. I’m not going to start being a Pope Francis-basher over this. I did say some extra prayers that the Lord would guide him when he speaks so he’d be more careful of what he says, as I cannot imagine a Pope would discourage others from prayer (or going to Mass). But it was a little jarring.

Yesterday, the homily I heard was about “serving others”. I’ve heard similar homilies on “serving others” in the last couple months. None of them seem to see prayer as a way of serving others. I know people still need food, water and shelter, they don’t live on prayers alone, but does that mean prayer is an inferior form of service?
 
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Assistantship without prayer is humanism and not charity. The ultimate good that one must wish
to oneself for or that one must wish for one’s neighbor is to become saints.
Assistantship effectively, requires a specific charisma, not everyone has this charisma.
In the same way, mortification without prayer is not charity, so prayer is fundamental for an authentic Christian life.
But prayer (in the sense of a request made to God) when it’as alone, is not the manifestation of true charity, for a true charity is a friendship. And in a friendship, one does not pass times to request something to other, but one must also give something to his friend. It is through works of mercy or mortifications that something is given back to God. If one does not have a specific charisma to do in the assistantship, our prayers must be accompanied at least by the mortifications (like fasting or continence). In fact, in corporal mortification we give our body directly to God and in spiritual mortification we give our soul directly to God and in the works of mercy we give our external goods to God.
 
I just wanted to note that I am out of “likes” today so I cannot “like” anyone’s post for some hours, but I’m reading all the replies 🙂
 
An authentic prayer life is very valuable, and many religious orders dedicate thier lives to this service to others.

Therefore, it is certainly not inferior, and it too is a service grounded in Our Lord Jesus.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
This past week, some of this seemed to be coming from the Holy Father. The whole “people recite prayers like parrots” thing. (As well as the daily Mass thing). So it’s hard not to place value on his statements
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In the Pope’s defense, it can be real easy to slip into a tote and automatic prayer life, even if you know better.

A couple years ago we had a crisis, and it was bad, and in the beginning I had a really prayer and spiritual life going. But as the crisis deepened, I found myself parroting prayers more and more, along with a growing anger towards the person at the center of it all, the people who were encouraging them, and at God for not doing anything about it.
(Mind you, I knew intellectually that God wasn’t just standing by, but I was really really scared).
Finally I stopped all my rote prayers except the rosary and started praying extemporaneous prayers (just telling God how I felt), and a lot of the anger started to drain away and I was able to bring grace and agape to the situation.
And then healing could start.
At this time, the original problem is mostly resolved. There’s still some healing left to do, but everybody’s on in a much better place.

I just took the Pope’s statement as a reminder. But I can see where other people could be upset, too.
 
Pope Francis raises an excellent point. If I were to question his words, I only need sit in a public Rosary gathering where for some, the faster the better. I need only attend Mass where the Creed and the Gloria can be recited without meaning , by some.
There is a tendency to turn vocal prayer into a rote learning exercise such as reciting times tables…
Pope Francis is asking the faithful to give vocal prayer meaning.


We do not pray like parrots

Pope Francis went on to say that, the Gospel therefore leads us to question ourselves on our way of praying. We do not do this as “parrots” and without “interest” in what we ask for, if anything, suggests the Pope, we beg the Lord to “help our little faith” even in the face of difficulties. In fact, there are many episodes in the Gospel in which to approach the Lord is difficult for those in need and this serves as an example to each of us. The Holy Father continued, the paralytic, in today’s Gospel of Mark, for example, is even lowered from the roof because his stretcher reaches the Lord who is preaching among the immense crowd. “One’s will finds a solution”, underlined the Pope, and “goes beyond the difficulties”:

Courage to fight to get to the Lord. Courage to have faith, at the beginning: “If you want you can heal me If you want, I believe '” And courage to get closer to the Lord, when there are difficulties. That courage … Many times, it takes patience and knowing how to wait for the moment, but do not give up, always go forward. But if I go with faith to the Lord and say: “But if you want, you can give me this grace”, and then but … as the grace after three days has not arrived, another thing … and I forget.
 
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This past year I’ve gotten much more into praying and for that matter being not just a “Sunday Catholic.” But I really struggle not seeming too needy in prayer. Everyday during my prayers and rosaries and mass intentions I ask that God will show me who my future wife is in His time but please have it be soon (lol) and give me patience while I wait and help me become the person you want my future wife to be with. I feel like all my needy prayer requests, eventually God is gonna get ticked off and be like “Matt would you quit it already, I heard you the first million times.” I also call upon a bunch of saints daily to help me find my future wife also and I hope they don’t get ticked
 
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Looking at the words of Jesus on prayer:

”But when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.” - Matthew 6:7

I feel like I do this a lot. Goes along with:

”Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.” - Matthew 6:1

Good to pray, but better to understand why, and that’s a tough one for me
 
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LateranBasilica said:
If I were to question his words, I only need sit in a public Rosary gathering where for some, the faster the better.
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The rosary groups I am in have a lot of 70-80 year old people in them. Also several people for whom English is a second language. If anything, they take longer than Mother Angelica to get through one prayer.

I have maybe known one person in my life who prayed the Rosary fast and she was from a culture who is known for doing that.

For most, the Rosary is a background for meditating. People do not concentrate so much on the words of each prayer because they are thinking about the Holy Mystery. Each person finds their own pace. I’m sure there may be some who just want to hurry and get done, but that’s not the goal of most who pray. In fact, for most of the rosary groups I see, if you lead prayer in the group too fast, you will likely get told by some folks to slow it down.
 
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GospelOfMatthew said:
”Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.” - Matthew 6:1
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I am still wondering who actually does this. I know some on the forum have expressed that Rosary Rallies and marches, in their opinion, are showing off to be seen. However, there are contexts where being visible and not hiding yourself away is kind of the point. The March for Life coming up is an example.

On a normal day, nobody I know prays in order to be seen. It’s like going to daily Mass. Society doesn’t admire it. They either put prayer and Mass on the same level as a trip to the convenience store, or they go further and think you’re weird for even going. People simply don’t do these things to impress others. Maybe it’s different at your age?
 
Sometimes I have to remind myself that I’m at Daily Mass to get closer to Jesus and not to see if there are any girls my age to talk with.

I also read my Bible everyday and I could read it in my dorm room but I read it in the chapel, since it’s a prayerful place and Jesus is there but also because I have the hope that someone will just so happen to be there when I’m there or walk in.

So I have to remind myself what the real focus should be sometimes.

Side note: I’m going to the March for Life next weekend 😛
 
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Oh, well, looking for people of the opposite sex to talk to is def not my problem at Mass anymore, and thank heaven for that, I wasted enough time on that stuff when I was your age!

😜

I’m still deciding whether to go to the March or just pray at home.
 
This is not my expertience. Even amongst the elderly. In some respects the speed of this vocal prayer is quite impressive.
 
I think you are thinking Matthew 7:7

”Keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you.”
 
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