Perfect Contrition

[PaulinVA]

But, doesn’t God operate under the rules that His Church creates? If His Church says that you must go to confession to be absolved of a mortal sin, that’s the way it is, right?

 

[wsxyz]

If His Church says that you must go to confession to be absolved of a mortal sin, that’s the way it is, right?

The Church says that ordinary way to receive forgiveness of sins is through the sacrament of penance. If the sacrament of penance were generally unnecessary, then Christ would not have instituted it.

The Church also recognizes that God can forgive those people who are truly contrite and repentant even though they haven’t gone to confession. That is called perfect contrition.

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

What scares me is that it says you’re Catholic…

Just because Christ died for our sins doesn’t mean if we commit one we’re forgiven asap. You need to either get to confession, or be lucky enough to be in perfect contrition when you die, as it states in Canon Law a few messages above.

Yes, it is unfortunate, but you just need to make sure that you get to confession.

 

[wsxyz]

Maybe it would be better to think of it differently:

Imagine you are on your way to confession, having committed a mortal sin. You get in a car wreck and you are mortally injured. Assume you lie there knowing you will probably die soon and you have an unconfessed mortal sin. What should you do?

Make acts of contrition and repentance. Pray to the Blessed Virgin asking for grace and to God asking for forgiveness. Try to awaken sorrow and disgust for your sins. Put all of your trust in Jesus Christ to save you. God will not jerk you around. If you are truly sorry for having offended God, then you will be saved.

 

[Warrior1979]

That is the Church teaching. Are you rejecting it?

It does not say that one will go to Hell, nor can it. Final judgement is reserved to God.

 

[PaulinVA]

What scares me is that it says you’re Catholic…

.

I stopped reading your post after the personal attack.

You negate any words of wisdom you may have when you insult people.

For the record, I assent to what the Church teaches in this regard. I simply feel that we have replaced one form of legalism for another.

 

[redrosetea]

My Jesus I trust in you…God knows your intentions and He is the only one that can judge your contrition…do your very best and leave it to God’s mercy

 

[thistle]

It does not say that one will go to Hell, nor can it. Final judgement is reserved to God.

Nobody but God knows who actually goes to Hell. However, we can objectively say with certainty that if you die in a state of mortal sin then you go to Hell. That is the Church teaching which is backed by the authority given to it by Christ.
If a person is in a state of mortal sin and only makes an act of imperfect contrition and dies before they get to Confession then their sins are not forgiven and they go to Hell.

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

I stopped reading your post after the personal attack.

You negate any words of wisdom you may have when you insult people.

For the record, I assent to what the Church teaches in this regard. I simply feel that we have replaced one form of legalism for another.

I was simply trying to make the point that you basically made a Protestant heresy in that post. Just because Jesus died for our sins on the cross it doesn’t mean that we’re saved. If there’s ten terrorists in the room and I jump in front of a bullet that was heading for you to save you, does that mean you still don’t have a chance of dying? Certainly not! There’s ten terrorists in the room and they’ve already killed one person. It’s the same with salvation.

But I apologize for the remark. It was stupid and un-courteous. I should’ve simply explained rather than have made a “personal attack” as you called it.

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

There’s no more need for our meaningless bickering. I (Hopefully) will be going to confession today anyway so it doesn’t matter. Which is perfect timing because otherwise I was going to be left out of the rapture!

Though I ask for all of the prayers I can get. I’m going to confess some sins that I really don’t want to, so please, if you would, pray to give me the strength in which I require.

 

[Warrior1979]

If a person is in a state of mortal sin and only makes an act of imperfect contrition and dies before they get to Confession then their sins are not forgiven and they go to Hell.

So if a Swiss guard makes imperfect contrition and 15 minutes later is killed saving the Pope, the Swiss guard goes to Hell?

 

[wsxyz]

So if a Swiss guard makes imperfect contrition and 15 minutes later is killed saving the Pope, the Swiss guard goes to Hell?

Saving the Pope doesn’t have anything to do with it at all. If the Swiss guard has mortal sin on his soul at the time of death, he will go to Hell. How he died doesn’t matter in the least.

 

[Warrior1979]

Saving the Pope doesn’t have anything to do with it at all. If the Swiss guard has mortal sin on his soul at the time of death, he will go to Hell. How he died doesn’t matter in the least.

I guess I’m just obstinate in believing that in the end, it is God that decides the fate of us all, regardless of our state of sin.

 

[thistle]

I guess I’m just obstinate in believing that in the end, it is God that decides the fate of us all, regardless of our state of sin.

You are wrong. God gave us freewill. We decide our own destination. If we commit a mortal sin and die in that state then we have freely chosen to go to Hell.

 

[Warrior1979]

You are wrong. God gave us freewill. We decide our own destination. If we commit a mortal sin and die in that state then we have freely chosen to go to Hell.

I believe that God can freely decide to do otherwise. I’d rather err on the side of hope than despair. I would concur with you in one specific circumstances, that being the instance where a mortal sin is objectively unforgivable; i.e., blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

 

[thistle]

I believe that God can freely decide to do otherwise. I’d rather err on the side of hope than despair. I would concur with you in one specific circumstances, that being the instance where a mortal sin is objectively unforgivable; i.e., blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Again you are wrong. Your thinking contradicts the teachings of the Church that Christ gave authority to. All Church teachings (on faith and morals) have the authority of Christ backing them and in matters of faith and morals the Church cannot err. If you disagree with a Church teaching that’s tantamount to saying Christ lied when he said he gave the Church the authority to forgive sins or not forgive sins and to loose and bind.

 

[Warrior1979]

Again you are wrong. Your thinking contradicts the teachings of the Church that Christ gave authority to. All Church teachings (on faith and morals) have the authority of Christ backing them and in matters of faith and morals the Church cannot err. If you disagree with a Church teaching that’s tantamount to saying Christ lied when he said he gave the Church the authority to forgive sins or not forgive sins and to loose and bind.

Giving the Church authority is not the same as ceding authority. Christ has not lost the ability to forgive sins, and Christ is free to do as He pleases.

One thing you’ll notice is a common theme in Church documents is that they never tie the hands of God…they can’t…and I’m not about to either.

 

[thistle]

Giving the Church authority is not the same as ceding authority. Christ has not lost the ability to forgive sins, and Christ is free to do as He pleases.

One thing you’ll notice is a common theme in Church documents is that they never tie the hands of God…they can’t…and I’m not about to either.

Your thinking is Protestant thinking!

 

[Warrior1979]

Your thinking is Protestant thinking!

Actually, it’s simply common sense. Prove otherwise.

 

[ClayPots47]

Your thinking is Protestant thinking!

Actually, what Warrior1979 appears to be saying, is very much like the fundamental option theory; which states that if one is fundamentally opted towards good and God, a single mortal sin doesn’t alter that. God will still save them. A theory that was condemned by John Paul II.

"The pope condemned the fundamental option theory, but he admitted that it had some valid elements.

According to fundamental option theory, each person makes a deep and basic choice for or against God. Individual acts we perform may or may not be in accordance with that fundamental choice. For example, when a person who has made a basic choice in favor of God sins, this choice to sin is not in accord with his fundamental orientation in favor of God.

The key claims of fundamental option theory are that individual acts do not change our basic orientation and that only when our fundamental option changes against God do we fall out of a state of grace. A person can commit particular sins without losing a state of grace.

Historic Catholic theology would say that those sins which do not change our fundamental option are venial sins and that those sins which do change it are mortal sins. Whenever a person commits a mortal sin, he has changed his fundamental option and chooses to be against God; he loses the state of grace.

But this is not the way fundamental option theorists present their system. They typically claim that one can commit acts such as adultery, homosexuality, and masturbation, which the Church has always regarded as mortal sins, without changing one’s fundamental option. Some go so far as to imply that no single act of sin one commits changes one’s fundamental option; only a prolonged pattern of sinful behavior can do so.

The effect of fundamental option theory, when it is presented this way, is to minimize people’s awareness of mortal sin and the danger it poses to their souls. It was this teaching, which undermines what the Church always has taught concerning sin, that the pope condemned (Veritatis Splendor 65-70)."

What is fundamental option theory?

Warrior1979, in the case of the Swiss Guard, in the example given in this thread; he must have a perfect act of contrition, and a desire to receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation should he survive. If he only makes an imperfect act of contrition, and he dies, he has chosen his destination when he chose to commit mortal sin. He changed his fundamental option and lost the state of grace, even if previously his fundamental option was oriented towards God. He decided his fate, not God, because God gave him free will to choose, as we all have free will to choose. The fundamental option theory sounds nice, but as the Holy Father pointed out, it is seriously flawed at it’s core. It was condemned because it endangers those who commit mortal sin, by promoting laxity, because one falsely believes that they are not lost by a mortal sin, because they are fundamentally oriented towards God. Very dangerous indeed!